Author Topic: 1976 CB550F - making it good, one step at a time  (Read 119691 times)

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Offline flatlander

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Re: 1976 CB550F - making it good, one step at a time
« Reply #225 on: June 04, 2015, 12:54:28 PM »
pete, thanks for the kind comments. i'm glad at least some of the stuff here is of use to someone.
no worries about hijacking. i think as long as its loosely related to bikes, beer or anything else that goes with it, it's all perfectly on topic  ;)

the side covers are original (as in: they came with the bike and have seemingly correct markings in them) but repainted. other plastic parts also. the rubber bits i've replaced in almost all places with new OEM, except the airbox rubbers which are repros.

i've checked the all the connections of the fuse block. mine's generally in good shape still, i only cleaned the connections - like all other electrical connections on the bike. if you haven't done so yet, i recommend you to do that to minimise resistance in the system. with the hondaman block you have the advantage that you can use regular auto fuses that can be bought at gas stations etc.

do you have a thread for your 550? otherwise it would be nice to see some pics. sounds like it must be in pretty nice shape?

Offline VRodPete

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Re: 1976 CB550F - making it good, one step at a time
« Reply #226 on: June 04, 2015, 01:00:39 PM »
No I haven't started a thread yet.  And I am terrible at pic documentation, I really need to do better.  I'm leaving on a business trip for a month (west Texas, not any glamour location ;) )  then I will tear into it and I promise pics and a project thread then. 

Overall it's in pretty nice shape.  I've respoked and re-sneakered the front wheel, rear is next.  Then  I will start hitting much of the same stuff you've hit in your thread here.  I'm really looking forward to it, especially when I'm past carburetors (my nemesis) and inside the engine.
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The Toys:
1976 Honda CB550F
2016 KTM 1290 Super Adventure
1981 Mooney M20J

Offline flatlander

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Re: 1976 CB550F - making it good, one step at a time
« Reply #227 on: June 09, 2015, 02:53:12 AM »
pete sorry i missed your response as i picked up our new dog and was busy with that. your 550 sounds nice, great that you want to keep it close to stock. looking forward to your project.

Offline flatlander

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Re: 1976 CB550F - new apprentice!
« Reply #228 on: June 09, 2015, 03:08:47 AM »
to further hijack my own thread: i picked up our new dog on sunday!
she's about 1 year old, a hungarian vizsla and it's a bit of a long story how we got her. apparently a guy in hungary got her as puppy as he wanted to use her for hunting. but then he didn't have the time to train her, or for anything really. so she ended up with his father who is busy running a farm and also doesn't have the time to properly deal with her. via a hunter friend of my father who knew someone who had heard from somebody... we got in touch with the old man who was happy to find a new home for her. her name is lily.

i'm trying to train her already to help with the bike. today a small package from mike arrived that included the last bits and pieces. she totally loves those cool stickers and immediately studied the timing card for the cam. in no time she noticed that it's a bit updated from the specs that megacycle publish on their site which is valuable info  ;)


Offline flatlander

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Re: 1976 CB550F - back at it
« Reply #229 on: June 14, 2015, 12:20:10 AM »
between the new dog and a friend staying over there wasn't any progress last week but now it's time to pick things up again.
yesterday i installed the head - this time for good. torqued the head nuts to spec and then left it sitting over night. today i'll re-torque them and continue with the final cam installation, then see how far i get...

i'm loosely following branden's thread on how to assemble a leak-free topend: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,107040.0.html
between that and the honda shop manual, there's not much more to be said here.

Offline Stev-o

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Re: 1976 CB550F - making it good, one step at a time
« Reply #230 on: June 14, 2015, 06:17:40 AM »
FYI - I rebuilt my Kaw 500 H1 recently and retorqued the head after 1 heat cycle.
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline Restoration Fan

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Re: 1976 CB550F - new apprentice!
« Reply #231 on: June 14, 2015, 06:43:21 AM »
i'm trying to train her already to help with the bike. today a small package from mike arrived that included the last bits and pieces. she totally loves those cool stickers and immediately studied the timing card for the cam. in no time she noticed that it's a bit updated from the specs that megacycle publish on their site which is valuable info  ;)
If you want to rent that dog out to others doing engine rebuilds, you could probably recoup the cost of your bike!  :D
Ron

Stella - Logan's Senior Project    78 750K http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=141761.0

Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafes    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,147787.0.html

Offline flatlander

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Re: 1976 CB550F - making it good, one step at a time
« Reply #232 on: June 14, 2015, 12:06:38 PM »
stev-o thanks, that's good info. i might just leave off the pucks for now so that i can do the same.

resto fan, not so fast - she still needs to get a bit more handy with the tools. she tries pulling that "no thumbs" card but i'm not buying it!

Offline flatlander

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Re: 1976 CB550F - cam riddle
« Reply #233 on: June 15, 2015, 05:01:03 AM »
the cam is now doing my head in.
according to the timing card, intake should open 11*BTC and close 50*ABC. with zero valve clearance and at 0.40" lift.
what i get is open 11*BTC and close 14*BBC.

that's pretty far off. on test assembly it squared up better. i must be missing something obvious?
i set the "zero valve clearance" with no.1 piston at TDC, when intake is opening - which is per honda manual. does this need to be different?

Offline flatlander

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Re: 1976 CB550F - making it good, one step at a time
« Reply #234 on: June 17, 2015, 12:06:08 PM »
i called megacycle about the mystery that lilly the dog discovered: the timing values on the website are published in 2012, the ones on the card in 2010 - and they are both different.
they confirmed i should go with the card as those values have been re-measured digitally and are more accurate. the catalogue on the site was published more recently but for many of their cams, contains data that is up to 30 years old.

also, i discovered that i had fooled myself by setting clearance when valves were open, not closed. duh  ???
ok with all this cleared up it's time to get back to work...

« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 04:12:57 AM by flatlander »

Offline Stev-o

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Re: 1976 CB550F - making it good, one step at a time
« Reply #235 on: June 17, 2015, 05:31:14 PM »
Surprised you didnt paint the lower cases while you had her apart.
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline flatlander

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Re: 1976 CB550F - making it good, one step at a time
« Reply #236 on: June 18, 2015, 02:01:35 AM »
i'm not painting any of the engine parts.

the lower part of the block stayed in the frame so didn't get blasted or polished. as it's been working well and the chains are tight i didn't see any reason in pulling it apart at this stage. if i do go into it some time in the future it will get more of a beauty treatment.
at this point i need to get this thing back on the road as the weather is decent!

Offline flatlander

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Re: 1976 CB550F - still on it!
« Reply #237 on: June 24, 2015, 01:05:22 PM »
in case you guys think i've fallen asleep: this thing is going back together, a little bit every day - or sometimes every second day. i'm not making many photos now as it's not too exciting, just everything going back where it belongs.
depending on what else is going on it might be ready during or just after the weekend, yay!

Offline Stev-o

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Re: 1976 CB550F - making it good, one step at a time
« Reply #238 on: June 24, 2015, 07:26:05 PM »
Don't worry, we are here impatiently waiting!
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline calj737

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Re: 1976 CB550F - making it good, one step at a time
« Reply #239 on: June 24, 2015, 08:21:34 PM »
Hey! Wake up damn it and build your bike already! Geez, Sleepyhead...  >:(
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

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Re: 1976 CB550F - making it good, one step at a time
« Reply #240 on: June 24, 2015, 08:32:16 PM »
Pics or it didn't happen.  ;)  Go for it and get her finished.
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
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Offline flatlander

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Re: 1976 CB550F - making it good, one step at a time
« Reply #241 on: June 25, 2015, 06:03:56 AM »
ooooh the pressure, the anticipation!! you certainly don't let me get off easy. ok ok i'll post some interim stuff just to get you guys off my back... probly you need to be some more patient until the weekend though.

Offline flatlander

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Re: 1976 CB550F - neglect... not by choice, out of necessity
« Reply #242 on: June 29, 2015, 05:12:23 AM »
this turned out quite different than expected:
i received a letter from my good friend the taxman, telling me nicely that he was going to help me avoid having to pay a fine if i returned my declaration for 2014 pretty sharpishly. in previous years we always got an extension but not now. so most of the weekend was spent assembling exciting paperwork and the poor little 550 was feeling very neglected  :'(

Offline flatlander

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Re: 1976 CB550F - more trouble
« Reply #243 on: July 04, 2015, 03:26:47 AM »
tax stuff is sorted but now this:

i kept having a bad feeling about the cam that i just couldn't get rid of. for peace of mind i went back and checked it again and again and it just didn't want to match up with the timing card no matter what i did. what was i doing wrong ??

after a brief email exchange with mike and sending him some photos he confirmed that the cam must be off. it has the right model number engraved, 12600 but the profile is not to that spec. nice to know that i'm not completely dumb (was really starting to doubt myself) but i'm not looking forward to the hassle and waiting time of getting it replaced. will call megacycle on monday.
between this and the rocker arm bith the botched up thread i'm starting to wonder if anyone there is actually looking at the stuff they ship out?

Offline strynboen

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Re: 1976 CB550F - making it good, one step at a time
« Reply #244 on: July 04, 2015, 02:46:27 PM »
this is vhy i use stock parts.

..they FIT..and kosts less..and fabrik data is in my users manual..easy to go..

nice to have a fast 550...but all 250 Ninjas vill kill you . even  it is tuned ..so vhy vaste Money..vhen a stock bike runs abaut 160 kmt..and yours vill only be a littel farster then mine stock..how often runs you a race vith a exact same type bike..i have not meet a cb 550 in years on road..so a race hvere 5-10 hk does the difference are not real in exist..
.....all this Tuborg you have missed..baying hot cams..
« Last Edit: July 04, 2015, 02:54:58 PM by strynboen »
i kan not speak english/but trying!!
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=60973.0
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=144758.0
i hate all this v-w.... vords

Offline flatlander

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Re: 1976 CB550F - racing ninjas
« Reply #245 on: July 05, 2015, 12:02:54 AM »
i know, if i want to compete with modern bikes i need to get a modern bike... but where's the fun in that? i'm not doing this to race with other bikes, i'm doing it for myself, for my own perverse kind of enjoyment which, next to riding, includes the part of thinking about modifications and building things with my own hands. yes i could buy a few playstations, crates of beer and whatever for the money but chose to spend it on pieces of steel. doctor says they're better for my liver anyway ;)

but you are right: if time and money are a concern then it's better to stick to a stock setup with minor tweaks, and tune it really well. i liked mine as a well running stocker, and i think i'll like this incarnation even more.

Offline strynboen

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Re: 1976 CB550F - making it good, one step at a time
« Reply #246 on: July 05, 2015, 12:51:56 PM »
yes  :)..you have a point..
and you have a vision of make a 550 as good as it can..so it can do more jobs/types of rides..overtaking at heighvay needs all power you can get..to make a safe ride

..i have many bikes..and have one for all rides..cbx 1000 for hurry..400 four for small slow rides..and 550 for all between.and a Suzuki ..vhen the Hondas dont funktion.and i feel the lack of power in both the small bikes..
.someday i..jump in ..and dropp the stock idea..i think..on the right bike,,, at the right time...but for the bikes i have now.they are just too good for big mods
« Last Edit: July 05, 2015, 12:55:02 PM by strynboen »
i kan not speak english/but trying!!
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=60973.0
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=144758.0
i hate all this v-w.... vords

Offline flatlander

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Re: 1976 CB550F - making it good, one step at a time
« Reply #247 on: July 05, 2015, 02:08:55 PM »
you have a nice collection there! i don't have that many, this one will have to do pretty much everything.
my neighbour has a 400-4 that i sometimes ride. i actually like it although i agree, for longer trips some more power would help. don't know why but historically i seem to be drawn towards smaller and lighter bikes...

i've got this 550 over 2 years ago, used it a lot and really made friends with it. i only started pouring this much time and money into it because i got to know it, and know it's a keeper. it's very well preserved and well running. i like the format, it's great for fast touring on smaller roads which is what i prefer. don't need much more top speed, on an unfaired bike i won't go that fast that long anyway. but making it quicker and overall stronger, while keeping it reliable and long lived - even the thought of it just makes me smile!

Offline flatlander

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Re: 1976 CB550F - a megacycle drama in 3 acts (with happy ending)
« Reply #248 on: July 15, 2015, 01:25:39 PM »
let's have another update - after quite some time!

prelude
as i said, i had my doubts about the cam. to exclude any errors on my part or with my equipment, i brought it to my local shop together with the timing card and just told them to install it. when it was time to pick it up the mechanic just shook his head and said he doesn't know what's going, just can't get it right. he had some numbers noted down on the card - which pretty much matched my previous measurements.

act 1
so i called megacycle and had a good long chat with barbara. she asked me to send my numbers. by fax. because they're stuck in the mid-20th century and don't use email. now who has a fax machine at home? well this being the 21st century i found some internet service through which i could send a fax for free, so that was sorted - phew!

my numbers that i sent in:

Intake:

Open – 27 BTC
Close – 49 ABC
Lift - .275”
Duration - 256

Exhaust:

Open – 77 BBC
Close – 49 ATC
Lift – .275”
Duration - 306

these were measured as the timing card suggests, with 0 lash at .040" lift.
according to the same card, the numbers for the 12600 cam should be:

Intake:

Open – 11 BTC
Close – 50 ABC
Lift - .285”
Duration - 241
Lobe centre - 109.5

Exhaust:

Open – 51 BBC
Close – 10 ATC
Lift – .270”
Duration - 241
Lobe centre - 110.5

that's nowhere close.

act 2
called them again after sending the fax. barbara saw that the numbers were off and passed me on to jim (the owner?) who also agreed that they didn't seem right and that he would replace the cam if it was really wrong. he asked me to measure once more, however, with the following method:

- valve lash set to 1mm (.040”) on in/ex
- degree wheel setup, rotate engine forward until lash starts to take up (tightens)
- put a mark on degree wheel = opening point
- proceed rotating forward until lash starts to take up (loosens)
- mark on degree wheel = closing point
- calculate 1/2 way point between these marks

then send him the numbers and a photo of the degree wheel with the markings. by fax, of course.

act 3
so i went and did this, and here's what i got:

Intake:
Open – 19 BTC
Close – 42 ABC
Duration: 241
Lobe centre: 101.5

Exhaust:
Open – 52 BBC
Close – 12 ATC
Duration: 244
Lobe centre: 110

guess what? exhaust is pretty much spot on, and intake is only slightly different from the timing card.
looks like the cam will be good, after all. it’s still a mystery to me how both i and the shop mechanic came up with such different numbers when measuring with the dial gauge. i can only guess that there is some variation in the cam or in the system that’s being evened out by the more tolerant manual method.

i called jim and gave him these numbers. in his opinion the cam should work well. so that's it, i'll put my doubts aside and give it a go.

epilogue
i shared the whole story with mike who also found it interesting that jim's method would give such better numbers. he suggested to time it again at running clearance.
so when i do this i'll have used three methods and just use the one that gets me closest to the timing card, ignoring the rest? so much for this being an exact science. anyway, i'm glad i'm getting somewhat closer to the truth now  :P

Offline flatlander

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Re: 1976 CB550F - cam timing, final adjustment!
« Reply #249 on: July 18, 2015, 08:16:23 AM »
mike recommended to time the cam at running clearance, measure at .040". with that, here's what i get:

intake lobe centre: 103
should be 109.5 according to timing card.

exhaust lobe centre: 109.5
should be 110.5 according to timing card.

exhaust is fine, intake looks pretty early.
i could retard the cam about 3 degrees from its current position... that would give 106 IN (3.5 diff to spec) and 106.5 EX (4 diff to spec).

not sure what's better or worse: leave as is, try spread the difference?
« Last Edit: July 19, 2015, 05:36:05 AM by flatlander »