Author Topic: 1976 CB550F - making it good, one step at a time  (Read 120303 times)

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Offline flatlander

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Re: 1976 CB550F - cam timing done, at last.
« Reply #250 on: July 19, 2015, 05:32:32 AM »
ok i can see how these are not the most exciting posts... anyway, for the record, this is what i got after 3 degrees retarding:

IN lobe centre: 105.5
EX lobe centre: 106.5

that's both about 4 degrees earlier than the timing card says. but if i change anything further, the numbers will be more uneven again.
i think it's as good as it gets now and i'll leave it at this.

Offline flatlander

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Re: 1976 CB550F - back to wrenching
« Reply #251 on: July 19, 2015, 12:42:20 PM »
so that's the end of these crazy number games: the cam went in.
before buttoning it up i gave it a tiny nudge in advance direction. could be 0.5, 1, or 1.5 degrees - whatever. just to make sure it's rather a tiny bit advanced then retarded, in case of measuring tolerances.

starting to look like something that could run some time soon:



in the meantime i also picked up an agm battery that promptly took the place of that old acid bucket:

« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 04:17:46 AM by flatlander »

Offline Stev-o

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Re: 1976 CB550F - making it good, one step at a time
« Reply #252 on: July 19, 2015, 03:46:13 PM »
Good choice on the battery, I bought one for my Kaw H1, but wish they were black.
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline flatlander

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Re: 1976 CB550F - making it good, one step at a time
« Reply #253 on: July 20, 2015, 05:05:01 AM »
LOL yes the colour is not exactly subtle! still i prefer it to acid and my local shop had it on the shelf so it came along...
how is your 550 doing, or are you all busy with the kawa these days?

Offline Stev-o

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Re: 1976 CB550F - making it good, one step at a time
« Reply #254 on: July 20, 2015, 02:29:26 PM »

how is your 550 doing, or are you all busy with the kawa these days?

The 550F is coming along nicely, replaced the carbs and it's running, but has the dreaded fuel leak. Parts ordered. So it'll be done soon.

I have officially started the Kaw H2 resto, I dropped off the cylinders last week for boring.  I've also decided to have the engine powder coated. The Kaw triples motor's originally came with no finish and I don't care for that look over time.
I'll be starting a thread soon in "Other Bikes".
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline flatlander

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Re: 1976 CB550F - making it good, one step at a time
« Reply #255 on: July 20, 2015, 02:37:25 PM »
yes the that fuel leak seems to be part of the initiation rite with these bikes.
on mine, i closed the engine off and set tappets to running clearance today. megacycle prescribes quite bit more than stock: .005" on IN and .006" on EX.
tomorrow the carbs go back on, then the biggest things are done.

start that thread, i'll certainly pop over to have a look. those triples are cool.

Offline flatlander

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Re: 1976 CB550F - friendly carbs
« Reply #256 on: July 21, 2015, 02:47:55 PM »
carbs are back on!



it took some fancy moves, embracing the engine from the front and pulling the carbs tightly onto the manifold rubbers - must be true love, hope nobody was watching  :o

with this the biggest parts are done. the rest is connecting the wires, and adjusting everything.
the nice thing is that with all the openings closed, i'll be able to do this outside the house in the sun.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 04:18:16 AM by flatlander »

Offline Stev-o

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Re: 1976 CB550F - making it good, one step at a time
« Reply #257 on: July 21, 2015, 03:41:28 PM »
Congrats...isnt that a good feeling lubing them up and inserting?

You should be up and running in no time.
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline flatlander

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Re: 1976 CB550F - making it good, one step at a time
« Reply #258 on: July 21, 2015, 10:59:27 PM »
Congrats...isnt that a good feeling lubing them up and inserting?

with that question... am i still on the right forum here? or are you testing my dirty mind??
but yes, feels good to have come this far. getting really close now  :)

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: 1976 CB550F - making it good, one step at a time
« Reply #259 on: July 22, 2015, 07:14:03 AM »
Everything is bigger in Texas
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline flatlander

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Re: 1976 CB550F - making it good, one step at a time
« Reply #260 on: July 22, 2015, 01:54:12 PM »
all my exes live in texas

Offline Stev-o

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Re: 1976 CB550F - making it good, one step at a time
« Reply #261 on: July 22, 2015, 07:47:26 PM »
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline flatlander

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Re: 1976 CB550F - mixed messages
« Reply #262 on: July 23, 2015, 02:20:44 PM »
there's good news and bad news. the good news first:

i connected all the cables and wires. filled up the oil. put on the tank.

spark on all plugs - check.
oil going into head - check.
fuel running - check.

FIRE!
 - and she runs!
only run it very briefly but she fires up promptly with choke, then gets steady on a little bit of throttle and half-choke. for a cold 550 that's how i'm used to it. after so many months this sounds like music ;D

now the bad news:
there's fuel pissing from the carbs. seems to come from that T-shaped connection piece between no.1 and 2 carbs, that the fuel line is attached to.
i fear there is no option but to pull the carbs again  :'(

Offline Stev-o

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Re: 1976 CB550F - making it good, one step at a time
« Reply #263 on: July 23, 2015, 05:09:13 PM »
Unfortunately, I think you are right.  But congrats, she runs!
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline flatlander

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Re: 1976 CB550F - making it good, one step at a time
« Reply #264 on: July 24, 2015, 01:10:35 AM »
yes at least i have the peace of mind that everything i did and wired up actually works.

still, sucks having to wrestle with the carbs again. oh well, if it has to be done...
i could beat myself up for not having tested them with some fuel before installing. i replaced all the old fuel lines on the carbs and must have disturbed something in the process. i guess if you're stupid you have to learn the hard way, ha ha!

Offline Stev-o

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Re: 1976 CB550F - making it good, one step at a time
« Reply #265 on: July 24, 2015, 06:09:29 AM »
Don't be so harsh on yourself, it happens.  If it makes you fell any better, I'm in the same boat fighting a fuel leak. 
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: 1976 CB550F - making it good, one step at a time
« Reply #266 on: July 24, 2015, 10:32:10 AM »
Take some solace in the fact that you've narrowed your issues to a fuel delivery issue and more specifically just a leak at a connection point. 
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline flatlander

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Re: 1976 CB550F - fuel o.k. / clutch k.o.
« Reply #267 on: July 24, 2015, 02:40:36 PM »
guys it's all good - the leak is fixed. it was indeed that T-connection. i don't know why i didn't think of testing the carbs after reassembling them, it would have saved my quite some carb-wrestling.

now here's the next thing: i can't get the clutch to disengage. i've adjusted it with the screw on the clutch cover, and it's definitely pushing in up to a certain point and no further - but doesn't go free.

i did this clutch mod described by bwaller: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,145565.0.html
could be that i need to remove the shim under the circlip that he's talking about. i re-used the one i had before the mod as the measurements seemed right, although quite tight. taking it out may create enough space for the plates to move.


Offline flatlander

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Re: 1976 CB550F - clutch carnage
« Reply #268 on: July 25, 2015, 10:12:17 AM »
opened the clutch cover to get to the bottom of this. already when i drained the oil it looked very suspicious. this is what greeted me:



some material shaved off the hub cover, and most of the "pegs" of the outermost plate broken off.
it had contact with this lever, which also explains why i could not get it to release:



not sure yet where the cause lies: either after the mod, the whole basket is too tall and some more space needs to be created - or maybe something was wrong with the position of the lever.

i also put up some more pictures in the thread about the clutch mod: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,145565.msg1711685.html#msg1711685

hope someone who has done this mod can comment if they had similar trouble, or did some additional work that i missed?
« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 04:20:39 AM by flatlander »

Offline flatlander

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Re: 1976 CB550F - clutch o.k.
« Reply #269 on: July 31, 2015, 03:58:32 PM »
i reverted the clutch back to the stock setup - with all new OEM parts. as this is the last thing stopping me from doing break-in, and as i still want to ride the bike this summer this seemed the quickest fix.

to be sure, i test-assembled it. marked the areas on the clutch hub and outer plate that had been previously shaved off, with black sharpie. then put the adjuster screw to max and turned it a few times with the kickstarter. the black marks were all still there so no contact.
adjusted it, and after pushing the bike back and forth a bit it actually broke free so this works now.
i'll leave it with that, the stock clutch will have to do. with all new parts it should be in good enough shape anyway. i can return to the mod during winter.

tomorrow i'll fill up the oil and time the ignition - then we should be good to go!
« Last Edit: July 31, 2015, 04:00:08 PM by flatlander »

Offline flatlander

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Re: 1976 CB550F - getting ready
« Reply #270 on: August 01, 2015, 07:00:58 AM »
now that everything is fine a look for a better hiding place for the transistor box. there's a space behind the air filter box where it can be wedged in between the filter box and rear fender. it's fiddly to get it in there even with the filter box loose but it fits well, is secure and out of sight.



then i push the bike around the corner to my local shop to check the ignition timing with the strobe. the guys are busy but they hand me the strobe gun: "you know what to do with this, right?"
having a good, helpful local shop is priceless - gotta support these guys.
then curiousity pulls them away from their work and they do come to check out the bike. they're very interested and like it a lot. "you're a top mechanic" says the boss. as an amateur wrencher i take this as quite the compliment from a pro!

anyway, the strobe shows that the timing is spot on as i set it - good to have that confirmed.

going for a first break-in ride now...
« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 04:22:08 AM by flatlander »

Offline Stev-o

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Re: 1976 CB550F - making it good, one step at a time
« Reply #271 on: August 01, 2015, 07:16:33 AM »
Alright...good luck!   

That VIN tag is interesting, diff than the US model.
Was that bike originally imported to Sweden?
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline flatlander

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Re: 1976 CB550F - break-in rounds 1 and 2
« Reply #272 on: August 02, 2015, 01:18:15 PM »
strange... i typed an answer yesterday but it didn't get posted:
the text on the vin tag is english and german, not swedish. not sure if this was normal for the european bikes, or if it means that it was originally meant for the german market?

yesterday i did a round of about 50km on a winding local road. that worked the engine through its range really well.
ass dyno report: it spins easily and freely, revs up very promptly and pulls like a really strong little devil. definitely has more punch, and delivers it quicker.

it also works nice and smooth, no hickups of any kind. the clutch is both easy and holds well.



back home i did a quick check and found no funny stuff. no oil leaks a at all - phew!
then i changed the oil and filter.

there was some fine debris in the oil. could be left over from when the clutch got chewed up? anyway, i decided not to worry as it was very tiny particles.



the engine also got quite hot, i think that's because the jetting is on the lean side. after the ride i checked the plugs and they don't look too far off - but this was not a plug chop at a certain rpm range, so not necessarily representative.

today - round 2.
i picked a route around the ijsselmeer. that's a body of water that used to be part of the north sea before it got closed off with a dam, in 1952. you can see it here in the picture, that big blue thing in the middle:



always along the coast, on small roads, is about 300km. riding hard pretty much non-stop this takes almost a full day. after this the bulk of the break-in would be done. a friend with his VFR was masochist enough to accompany me  ;D

as yesterday, the bike behaved very well but i noticed a few tings.
past about 8500rpm it doesn't really get stronger. i think this is an indication that the main jets may need to go up one or two numbers. i'm making a dyno appointment so this will get sorted soon.

then when we were almost half-way i couldn't rev past about 4500rpm in any gear. stopped for a quick check, found nothing weird so let it cool down a bit then continue - still the same. idle was steady, carbs got fuel... maybe the ignition timing went out of adjustent?
after stopping for a quick lunch and letting the engine cool down i looked under the ingition cover, but all looked good. so what could this mystery rev limiter be?
looking up i noticed that the counter nut of the clutch push cable had gotten loose, and in a funny spot where it restricted the clutch mechanism as such. so luckily this turned out to be  something simple.
i popped off the tank and tightend it back on really well.



after this it ran well again, for the rest of this round.

changing the oil (and filter, again) the debris i found was much less, and even finer than yesterday. that's a good trend.

that's the good stuff.

then i have a tiny oil leak at the left hand side of the oil pan. not sure yet if it's from the gasket, or from under the shifter cover. it's really more of a sweating than dripping so not too bad but i want to find the source.

also found that the bolt holding the ignition rotor on the crankshaft sticks out a bit further than with the stock setup with points, and now touches the ignition cover. it already ground its way into the cover, here around the "N":



i think i can just push this out a bit with a hammer to give it more space underneath.

another minor thing is that honda log plate on the alternator cover that's coming loose.



i might just stick it on with some heat resistant glue as i see no reason why i would have to remove it.

next is to re-torque all bolts, check tappet clearances and cam chain tension... and get a dyno appointment.

« Last Edit: January 02, 2016, 01:35:10 PM by flatlander »

Offline flatlander

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Re: 1976 CB550F - nut case... stupid mistake
« Reply #273 on: August 03, 2015, 01:09:16 PM »
well this is embarassing but here we go...
checking tappet clearances, this is what i found on no. 2 intake:



yes the nut is gone!
i looked with a light but didn't see it. i'll need to take off the cover and hope for the best. i really hope it didn't go far  :-[
« Last Edit: January 02, 2016, 01:37:00 PM by flatlander »

Offline RAFster122s

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Re: 1976 CB550F - making it good, one step at a time
« Reply #274 on: August 03, 2015, 02:55:43 PM »
It can be in the bottom end , via the cam chain path...
hopefully not.
Hopefully no damage and you can get it back on the road after a few gaskets and disassembly and reassembly.
David
David- back in the desert SW!