Author Topic: Starve the poor and dilute our fuels. Why?  (Read 7746 times)

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Offline FunJimmy

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Starve the poor and dilute our fuels. Why?
« on: March 02, 2014, 08:45:55 PM »
The AMA has been lobbying the US congress and senate to stand down on forcing use of E15 in our fuel.
   

I remember this story a couple years ago, right before chip prices went up.

http://www.artdiamondblog.com/archives/2007/01/poor_mexicans_h.html
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1764992/posts

From 2012
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/02/usda-sale-idUSL2E8J276E20120802

From late 2013
http://www.agri-pulse.com/Corn-soybean-prices-projected-to-increase-USDA-says-08122013.asp

People are starving, and we burn diesel for farm tractor, fertilizer, pesticides to produce corn instead of using natural gas instead of petrol for fleets etc. YEP makes sense and all of us are buying the story along with global warming.  :o
 
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Offline MoMo

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Re: Starve the poor and dilute our fuels. Why?
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2014, 09:12:33 PM »
no one I know is buying the story. ..Larry
« Last Edit: March 03, 2014, 05:46:28 AM by Bob Wessner »

Offline rb550four

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Re: Starve the poor and dilute our fuels. Why?
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2014, 02:21:49 PM »
It's the new corporate way to attack the populous here in the US. We have to guard the upper 2 percent from being overrun by a successful upwardly mobile upper middle class and middle class trash.
  By raising every aspect of the cost of living, doubling the cost of electricity, heating fuel, propane,ethanol, and diesel fuel  effects every aspect of our lives negatively  , positively for the rich . Raising the cost of all manufactured goods, transportation of all goods, your transportation, the cost of heating your home, cost of running small business' and the cost of food prices. This action has effectively reduced the yearly income the middle class by, let's say, a super conservative 20 percent. An irretrievable increase in the bottom line cost of life in just the last 5 years. income Dollars are decreasing in worth to the working man.
  The more you own the more expensive it will be unless, you are among the super wealthy  that can use each and every financial loophole to keep some of what you made and use that to make more by lending it to institutions for a higher return....Whatever the super rich do legally. There's no end to illegal and immoral ways to increase worth.... I never had to worry about what to do about a pile of extra money,so there are no examples.
   And this was all done for our farmers ?Riiiiiight. Now the food we get has been genetically altered to the point that our bodies can't absorb the nutrients that the unmolested food once provided naturally because it's different.
   This was never about helping farmers, it's about thinning the heard. It's about weakening the strong , dismissing the poor. This is about taking the fight out of a population that would never put up with this if they realized what was really happening before they got too weak to fight it.
 It's Empire building at it's finest.
  The fight for our own freedoms and lives will have to start soon, before we loose all our strength . Our window of opportunity is closing in around us. The question is , what are we going to do about it?
   This isn't politics, this is the plan in it's simplest form.   
« Last Edit: March 03, 2014, 02:49:09 PM by rb550four »
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Offline Duanob

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Re: Starve the poor and dilute our fuels. Why?
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2014, 10:41:44 AM »
Geez what next? A $15/hour min wage? The world will come to an end!
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Offline FunJimmy

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Re: Starve the poor and dilute our fuels. Why?
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2014, 12:40:17 PM »
Geez what next? A $15/hour min wage? The world will come to an end!

I know, right!
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Offline 78 k550

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Re: Starve the poor and dilute our fuels. Why?
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2014, 01:17:06 PM »
Geez what next? A $15/hour min wage? The world will come to an end!

Obama said he would like it at 10.00 for min wage I heard some where.

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Offline MoMo

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Re: Starve the poor and dilute our fuels. Why?
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2014, 02:06:04 PM »
The plan is 10.10 by 2015.  How does a business owner adjust when he has to increase salaries to lower pay scale workers?  Raise prices is the only recourse that I can see

Offline Duanob

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Re: Starve the poor and dilute our fuels. Why?
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2014, 02:10:10 PM »
Geez what next? A $15/hour min wage? The world will come to an end!

Obama said he would like it at 10.00 for min wage I heard some where.

Paul

Our state is pushing for $15. Hey if people can start affording their own healthcare and other necessities then that means the rest of us won't have to foot the bill in extra taxes. I'm all in. So what if a Big Mac goes up $0.50.
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Offline 70CB750

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Re: Starve the poor and dilute our fuels. Why?
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2014, 05:26:49 PM »
Oh we were so regulated everything was set by the government. It worked so well, the whole east block fell apart.

Yeah I know, if Americans were doing it it would work splendidly, I heard that one so many times I lost count.
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Offline BeSeeingYou

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Re: Starve the poor and dilute our fuels. Why?
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2014, 10:21:45 PM »
Oh we were so regulated everything was set by the government. It worked so well, the whole east block fell apart.

Yeah I know, if Americans were doing it it would work splendidly, I heard that one so many times I lost count.

I think it's a little bit more complicated than that.  Might have had something to do with police state repression, no freedom of travel, lack of a real say in elected representation, etc  As for the occupied eastern European countries it might have had something to do with BEING OCCUPIED.  Even if the occupier brings ice cream and flowers living under a foreign occupation grows old.  Just ask the Iraqis and the Afghans.....they didn't seem to care too much about all the wonders of democracy we "gave them" after awhile.  Speaking of Afghanistan....now there's a country without a lot of government regulation...Somalia too....hows that working out?  Norway and Sweden might be places where there is a fair amount of government regulation...hows that working out?  ???

Offline calj737

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Re: Starve the poor and dilute our fuels. Why?
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2014, 04:55:48 AM »
There are so many lies and untruths about the purpose behind some of these policies, that it's hard to even know where to begin, or what to believe.

It's very true that the 1% wealthy population have the most leverage globally on policies and politics. And with the structure of "democratic elections" I envision that never changing. To believe that we in the US, as a population, have the ability to redirect our fate through elections is a bit whimsical. If you rely on the Electoral College, then at best it's a crap shoot.

I see greater similarity in the direction of the US, and perhaps some other Democratic countries, towards the very system of the failed Eastern bloc: it scares the living poop out of me. But comparing 3rd world countries like Somalia, African Congo, Afghanistan, Mali to European countries is an apple to Motorcycle tire. No offense intended, but they aren't even in the same century of social development. They are, and have been, very much tribal ruled countries for centuries.

I'd love to see the government get out of manipulating agricultures, fuels, and markets to allow people the individual liberties to pursue their own path in life. Heck, I'd even like to see the repeal of helmet and seat belt laws! I'd still wear them because it's "MY" choice, but to be told to have to do it, let me off this circus ride!

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Offline JeffSTL

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Re: Starve the poor and dilute our fuels. Why?
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2014, 05:10:15 AM »
The plan is 10.10 by 2015.  How does a business owner adjust when he has to increase salaries to lower pay scale workers?  Raise prices is the only recourse that I can see

If a business owner can't afford to pay an employee a decent wage, maybe there is something wrong with his business model and maybe the owner should do the work himself or move along.  $10.10 is not even a living wage. Hell, $15/hr would barley keep a person clothed, fed, and sheltered.

Corporate profits have never been higher, while workers wages are falling. The biggest problem in this country is that workers have been convinced to fight against other workers and the corporations are laughing all the way to the bank.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2014, 05:15:49 AM by JeffSTL »

Offline 70CB750

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Re: Starve the poor and dilute our fuels. Why?
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2014, 05:57:12 AM »
All them greedy capitalists are at fault  ;D

Makes me feel young again, thats what we were told from the first grade on.
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Offline FunJimmy

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Re: Starve the poor and dilute our fuels. Why?
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2014, 08:09:23 AM »
It's a known fact that paying employees a decent living wage increases moral, efficiency and ensures a more stable work force. Pressures to impoverish the working poor comes from share holders demanding unrealistic returns. Those share holders are the same 5% that control most of the wealth. 

Higher minimum wages also benefits society by providing families with more options to improve health and education further reducing the burden on taxpayers and governments while governments collect more taxes to fund services, etc.

The belief that we can't afford to pay living wages is rhetoric blasting from Wall Street. Do you think even for a minute that Walmart would loose customers, close up and go away if Sam paid the employees a tad more?
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Offline LesterPiglet

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Re: Starve the poor and dilute our fuels. Why?
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2014, 08:53:16 AM »
UK minimum wage is $10.56. I don't know the comparison of cost of living between the two countries but we are sort of managing.
'Then' and 'than' are completely different words and have completely different meanings. Same with 'of' and 'have'. Set and sit. There, their and they're. Draw and drawer. Could care less/couldn't care less. Bought/brought FFS.


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Offline toytuff

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Re: Starve the poor and dilute our fuels. Why?
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2014, 08:56:23 AM »
The plan is 10.10 by 2015.  How does a business owner adjust when he has to increase salaries to lower pay scale workers?  Raise prices is the only recourse that I can see

Less employees. Solves nothing.

tt

Offline JeffSTL

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Re: Starve the poor and dilute our fuels. Why?
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2014, 09:30:29 AM »
It's a known fact that paying employees a decent living wage increases moral, efficiency and ensures a more stable work force. Pressures to impoverish the working poor comes from share holders demanding unrealistic returns. Those share holders are the same 5% that control most of the wealth. 

Higher minimum wages also benefits society by providing families with more options to improve health and education further reducing the burden on taxpayers and governments while governments collect more taxes to fund services, etc.

The belief that we can't afford to pay living wages is rhetoric blasting from Wall Street. Do you think even for a minute that Walmart would loose customers, close up and go away if Sam paid the employees a tad more?

+1!

Logic and reason may go over well in Canada, eh, but this is 'Murica.

Offline JeffSTL

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Re: Starve the poor and dilute our fuels. Why?
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2014, 09:36:26 AM »
Hey, why don't we just set a maximum wage if raising the minimum wage means less jobs? $5/hr for all non-executive employees. More jobs, right? Full employment. Everybody is happy, right? Then companies would lower prices, right? It's only logical. :o
« Last Edit: March 06, 2014, 02:49:12 PM by JeffSTL »

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Starve the poor and dilute our fuels. Why?
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2014, 10:45:19 AM »
It's a known fact that paying employees a decent living wage increases moral, efficiency and ensures a more stable work force.

Would you share how this fact was established?  I won't deny the rationalization.  But, how was it "factualized"?

Anyway, I always thought "pay for performance" was more important than an entitlement.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for compensation in return for work rendered.  But, I think there are only a few humans that actively insist on paying more or top premium for any given item, product, or service of equivalent value.  Otherwise, it is boiled down to what the market will bear, or the en masse value of whatever is being encountered in the exchange.

If you seek someone to mow your lawn, do you seek out the service or individual that demands the most money?
If you are paying someone else to stand at station and flip burgers, will they then flip them them faster than the customer demand mandates?  How does it help the worker if the wage rises to the point where a robot can do the same function more consistently for less cost?
Will they really feel better about their employment if government steps in and forces the employer to pay them more money for doing the same (or even less) as they did before for the exact same job?

I remember getting an "allowance" in childhood.  When I did more chores, my allowance increased.  Is this now classified as parental cruelty in this modern age?  Are chores and responsibility no longer taught before age 18?  Is responsibility now issued by the government upon reaching age 18 without any prior training?

Will people take advantage of others?  Yes.  Is it human nature to do so?  Yes, it has been going on throughout the existence of Homo Sapiens (as well as other species).

I dare say there is NO government that will ever treat all individuals fairly, (aside from pretense).  And, as long as the groups of people remain small enough, not even groups of people as a whole will be treated fairly.  As a group becomes larger, then factions within those groups will be treated differently within.  Some may even get elected and become entitled to special privileges, simply because they are valued more than others (by many, or by some others who have themselves become entitled).  Still others will resent all of this.
There are still others (individuals AND groups) that will dispute your basic rights (rights that are non-existent in the cosmos, btw), even your "right" to live, which in itself, is a human self glorifying construct.

Why starve the poor and dilute our fuels?
  Because some of our species were enabled to control or seize resources.  And, they did so "fairly" within the rules of society.  We are going to need a genetic mutation applied to the species to effect a root change of behavior.  We aren't presently equipped to deal with "fair", particularly when competing for resources, the root basis for all strife, conflict, and wars.
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Re: Starve the poor and dilute our fuels. Why?
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2014, 11:10:37 AM »
The world is not a "fair" place.  the closest we have come to "Fair" is our western democracies.  However just as with other types of governments the temptation of all those involved directly or not is to manipulate the rules in a way to benefit some part of the population over others.  This is just a fact, it happens, we need to accept it.

Those in power will consolidate that power, those with power will seek more.  Simple fact, it is part of our genetic inheritance from the time we were single cells seeking flotsam to absorb.

Some are better at it.

No right or wrong here, just the way it is.

Your only defense is the ballot. if you don't like ADM getting corn prices hiked find a candidate who does not accept money from them...Good Luck. My guess is you will put some mythological need ahead of the ADM connection problem.

Unless y'all can think of a better way to govern, this is as good as it gets.  :-\ :o
« Last Edit: March 06, 2014, 12:37:47 PM by Markcb750 »

Offline demon78

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Re: Starve the poor and dilute our fuels. Why?
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2014, 12:31:58 PM »
#$%*ing  peasants they never seem to learn their place and they always seem to be with us right.
Bill the demon.

Markcb750

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Re: Starve the poor and dilute our fuels. Why?
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2014, 12:43:59 PM »
#$%*ing  peasants they never seem to learn their place and they always seem to be with us right.
Bill the demon.

Maybe I was being too subtle, or too assumptive.

Mark the Mechanic

Offline LesterPiglet

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Re: Starve the poor and dilute our fuels. Why?
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2014, 12:56:14 PM »
I don't see a problem with having a minimum wage. Most jobs have paybands and it's up to you to work for a raise.
'Then' and 'than' are completely different words and have completely different meanings. Same with 'of' and 'have'. Set and sit. There, their and they're. Draw and drawer. Could care less/couldn't care less. Bought/brought FFS.


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Offline Duanob

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Re: Starve the poor and dilute our fuels. Why?
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2014, 12:56:54 PM »
It's a known fact that paying employees a decent living wage increases moral, efficiency and ensures a more stable work force.

Would you share how this fact was established?  I won't deny the rationalization.  But, how was it "factualized"?



This might seema little subjective but tavelling the world, I notice it in places that have a good economy and the working people are paid decent wage. I notice a lot less crime, more ancillary jobs available to small business owners, less black markets, more stability amongst the population, and less chance of uprisings because the population is satisfied. Just my own personal observations and that's why i believe it.

The other side of the coin just seems like usual fear tactics that might just rock the yacht and spill a martini or two.
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Offline demon78

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Re: Starve the poor and dilute our fuels. Why?
« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2014, 01:13:24 PM »
I suspect in my own crude way that is what I was saying, that if your society is running  the way it should there is less reason to be against it, it would be interesting for some one else's perspective, rather than just North Americans we seem some times fall back into the same old pigeon holes. As far as ethanol from a food crop in a world with hunger that's not logical any more than sending hay from California to China. Must toddle off to check on the mail.
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