Author Topic: Rod Bolts (Read 15022 times)

MRieck · « **Reply #25 on:** July 27, 2014, 07:08:12 PM »

The new bolts (which should be the same as the late model F's) have a straight shank and are stronger. They torque to a higher value as well. You need the nuts to go with them.

Bill/BentON Racing · « **Reply #26 on:** July 27, 2014, 07:51:47 PM »

333 bolt was first used in CB 350F. Bill

Garage_guy_chris · « **Reply #27 on:** August 01, 2014, 12:08:59 AM »

Ok i have encountered another problem with the rod bolt conundrum. I checked price and availability on the newer KV0 bolts and nuts from Honda Canada and there Backordered till Sept, last time i checked a few months ago they were back ordered till june. So im thinking even if i wait they may be delayed again. I was just wondering if anyone knows the status of these in the US from Honda US, Or for that matter Honda Europe. I don't mind sourcing them from a far i just don't want to put money out for something that a dealer cant provide.

MRieck · « **Reply #28 on:** August 01, 2014, 05:54:58 AM »

Quote from: Garage_guy_chris on August 01, 2014, 12:08:59 AM

Ok i have encountered another problem with the rod bolt conundrum. I checked price and availability on the newer KV0 bolts and nuts from Honda Canada and there Backordered till Sept, last time i checked a few months ago they were back ordered till june. So im thinking even if i wait they may be delayed again. I was just wondering if anyone knows the status of these in the US from Honda US, Or for that matter Honda Europe. I don't mind sourcing them from a far i just don't want to put money out for something that a dealer cant provide.

I have them in stock Chris but i won't be around for a week. If you want a set and can wait a week please let me know.
Mike

Garage_guy_chris · « **Reply #29 on:** August 14, 2014, 09:51:17 PM »

Well i managed to source the rod bolts from Honda USA and there headed to me along with some other CB450 goodies

I Have one question now that the weakest link of the rod has been remedied with the F2 / KV0 bolt what kinda bore size, compression, redline are the stock rods good for?

Reason I ask is I have a Cruzin Image 836 kit (9.5:1) and a Wiseco 811 (10.25:1) kit and have been trying to decide which way to go? If the rods are still gonna be borderline id rather build the Cruzin Image kit and watch the redline and save the Wiseco kit to hang on some Cycle X Super rods in another engine so i can rev it up to 10500 - 11000 rpm and not worry.

MRieck · « **Reply #30 on:** August 15, 2014, 05:36:09 AM »

You won't find any extra power at 10,500.

bear · « **Reply #31 on:** August 16, 2014, 10:46:35 PM »

Rick's right.
It's pointless revving the tits off these motors, there's nothing to be gained.

Cheers,
Brian

Garage_guy_chris · « **Reply #32 on:** August 17, 2014, 04:23:43 PM »

Ok that is good to know. i guess my main concern is that i don't want a fragile engine thats gonna puke a rod if miss a shift or accidentally spin it past red line. I want to have a nice strong 811 / 836 engine that i dont have to be careful with or constantly worry about.

afkrejci90 · « **Reply #33 on:** August 18, 2014, 04:39:16 PM »

Quote from: Garage_guy_chris on August 17, 2014, 04:23:43 PM

Ok that is good to know. i guess my main concern is that i don't want a fragile engine thats gonna puke a rod if miss a shift or accidentally spin it past red line. I want to have a nice strong 811 / 836 engine that i dont have to be careful with or constantly worry about.

If you want insurance then why not just get a set of Carrillo's?

Badluckhonda · « **Reply #34 on:** May 05, 2015, 10:42:49 PM »

So I plan on running KVO bolts on my stick rods which I will hopefully polish and cryogenically treat.
My questions is after reading the article I want to install these using the stretch method, but to check bearing clearance do I need to stretch these ? And then will they be good to reuse ?

Retro Rocket · « **Reply #35 on:** May 05, 2015, 11:37:41 PM »

Quote from: Badluckhonda on May 05, 2015, 10:42:49 PM

So I plan on running KVO bolts on my stick rods which I will hopefully polish and cryogenically treat.
My questions is after reading the article I want to install these using the stretch method, but to check bearing clearance do I need to stretch these ? And then will they be good to reuse ?

Shot peening is a common treatment for these rods, thats what RC did to the stockers he sold, as well as a brass bushed little end and bigger rod bolts...

Badluckhonda · « **Reply #36 on:** May 06, 2015, 01:21:14 AM »

I've seen those guys. Bill was thinking of selling me a set but never cleared if he wanted to. Also I think cryo will give you better result then shot preening I think doing both is redundant. Shot preening adds strength by kinda polishing in a way. So cryo and polishing will give me pretty strong rods. I think

Anyway can you help with my question RR ?

Retro Rocket · « **Reply #37 on:** May 06, 2015, 01:27:40 AM »

Quote from: Badluckhonda on May 06, 2015, 01:21:14 AM

I've seen those guys. Bill was thinking of selling me a set but never cleared if he wanted to. Also I think cryo will give you better result then shot preening I think doing both is redundant. Shot preening adds strength by kinda polishing in a way. So cryo and polishing will give me pretty strong rods. I think

Anyway can you help with my question RR ?

As far as I was aware, shot peening was about smoothing the surface under the pressure of the shot, stabilizing the surface and inhibiting cracks..

Quote

Shot peening is a cold working process used to produce a compressive residual stress layer and modify mechanical properties of metals. It entails impacting a surface with shot (round metallic, glass, or ceramic particles) with force sufficient to create plastic deformation. Nearly all fatigue and stress corrosion failures originate at the surface of a part, but cracks will not initiate or propagate in a compressively stressed zone. Because the overlapping dimples from shot peening create a uniform layer of compressive stress at metal surfaces, shot peening provides considerable increases in part life. Compressive stresses are beneficial in increasing resistance to fatigue failures, corrosion fatigue, stress corrosion cracking, hydrogen assisted cracking, fretting, galling and erosion caused by cavitation. The maximum compressive residual stress produced just below the surface of a part by shot peening is at least as great as one-half the yield strength of the material being shot peened.

Talk to Mike Rieck or Big Jay about the pre stretch of the bolts, I'm sorry but I can't help with that one...

pangloss · « **Reply #38 on:** May 06, 2015, 06:59:07 AM »

you don't have to stretch the bolts for static bearing clearance check... Bolt stretch is all about how the bolt works under load.

Badluckhonda · « **Reply #39 on:** May 06, 2015, 10:27:34 AM »

From what've read you are correct retro but I beliwve polishing accomplishes the same goal. And cryo get down to the molecular level and give an even more uniform grain

Badluckhonda · « **Reply #40 on:** May 06, 2015, 10:30:39 AM »

Quote from: pangloss on May 06, 2015, 06:59:07 AM

you don't have to stretch the bolts for static bearing clearance check... Bolt stretch is all about how the bolt works under load.

v
Thanks man but what do I tigthten the bolts to for checking bearing clearance. Maybe just torque to 15lbs like stock bolts and check ?

pangloss · « **Reply #41 on:** May 06, 2015, 09:46:34 PM »

Yes..it just needs enough to Ensure the bearing cap is firmly aligned and seated on both sides. The current wisdom from most manufacturers of this type of fastener is that it will only take TWO full pulldown/stretche
s in its lifetime.

Badluckhonda · « **Reply #42 on:** May 06, 2015, 09:49:02 PM »

So basically just snug them down? And stretch them on final assembly to prevent nut from backing out and for pressure loads under running conditions

Kickstart · « **Reply #43 on:** May 09, 2015, 08:26:32 PM »

Quote from: pangloss on May 06, 2015, 09:46:34 PM

Yes..it just needs enough to Ensure the bearing cap is firmly aligned and seated on both sides. The current wisdom from most manufacturers of this type of fastener is that it will only take TWO full pulldown/stretche
s in its lifetime.

Now that's interesting.

Are you saying rod bolts should only be tightened to their specified torque only one or twice in their lifetime? So, when we measure clearances with plastigage we shouldn't tighten to the specified torque? Would this also apply to main bearing bolts?

I'm not sure how I feel about this, as I had assumed the specified torque for these bolts would have been engineered to be well within their material's elastic range. Maybe a bad assumption on my part? Do you have any more information on this?

Thanks,
Chris

mick7504 · « **Reply #44 on:** May 09, 2015, 09:30:44 PM »

Below are the instructions that came with a set of Super Rods.
Hope this helps.

MRieck · « **Reply #45 on:** May 10, 2015, 06:18:43 AM »

Quote from: mick7504 on May 09, 2015, 09:30:44 PM

Below are the instructions that came with a set of Super Rods.
Hope this helps.

Mick...those instructions should say 30 lbs of torque = .005 stretch. I installed a set about 4 months ago and measured .005 at 28 lbs on my torque wrench.

cbr954 · « **Reply #46 on:** May 10, 2015, 06:26:33 AM »

Couple years ago when I installed my super rods they didn't come with instructions so called Ken and he said 22 lbs. Didn't have the means to do stretch. Maybe they changed the bolts they use.

pangloss · « **Reply #47 on:** May 10, 2015, 01:57:52 PM »

I have a good article here "Threaded Fasteners: Torque-to-Yield and Torque-to-Angle
By Bill McKnight"
(I'm trying to figure out how to post the pdf....but its on the net ) I used it as a guide when bolting up my Carillos... I used a spare bolt to calibrate my torque wrench and two full stretch pull downs as suggested in the article

mick7504 · « **Reply #48 on:** May 10, 2015, 02:14:16 PM »

Quote from: MRieck on May 10, 2015, 06:18:43 AM

Quote from: mick7504 on May 09, 2015, 09:30:44 PM
Below are the instructions that came with a set of Super Rods.
Hope this helps.

Mick...those instructions should say 30 lbs of torque = .005 stretch. I installed a set about 4 months ago and measured .005 at 28 lbs on my torque wrench.

That is a good point Mike.
Although that was several years ago, I do recall taking them beyond 20 lbs.
I've got it my mind that it was 25/26 lbs but those numbers are relying on memory.

Kickstart · « **Reply #49 on:** May 25, 2015, 09:32:54 PM »

Has anyone had trouble using the F2 rod bolts on their K rods?

I have an early K2 engine I'm working on, and the F2 bolts I recently bought won't fit all they way through the bolt hole in the rod. It almost fits but gets stuck with about 3-4mm left to go. I've used them before on my early F (1975) with no issues.

It's not the head of the bolt being too large. I took some measurements and notice the F2 rod bolts tapper/shoulder slightly, with a larger diameter on the upper half of the bolt... and I also noticed that the bolt hole in the rod has step in it with a slightly smaller ID... the combination of these two things prevents the bolt from fitting.

Pictures attached.
The last picture, with the bolt in the wrong way is to show the point on the bolt where's it's too large to pass.

Has anyone experienced this, and if so, any suggestions?

Thanks,
Chris

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Author Topic: Rod Bolts (Read 15022 times)