Author Topic: Dragging clutch? Can't go over 10 MPH  (Read 6084 times)

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Offline Xxthegonzxx

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Dragging clutch? Can't go over 10 MPH
« on: March 09, 2014, 05:27:34 PM »
Hey All,

I have a 1978 CB750F SS that I completely rebuilt from scratch. New CycleX clutch discs and plates, new CycleX undercut race transmission, Dyna Ignition and Dyna 3 Ohm coils, the works. I finally got it to idle just right with my open Kerker exhaust and when I went to go for a ride to test the rest of the beast out, I couldn't get past 10MPH! The engine sounds like it's bogged down when it's running in first gear and and when I pull the throttle open it doesn't sound very healthy. I can only go about 8-10 MPH on first then I click up to second gear and engage the clutch and the same thing happens. It doesn't want to go any faster! I'm going to do some more troubleshooting but thought I'd post on the forums to get some feedback. What are my troubleshooting steps? Where should I start first?

Here's a pic of my baby:

Offline 74750k4

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Re: Dragging clutch? Can't go over 10 MPH
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2014, 06:08:13 PM »
It sounds like your clutch is working fine. Certain that it's not slipping? You can't rev it up in gear, you just have no power, right? Sounds like jetting.

Black 750K8

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Re: Dragging clutch? Can't go over 10 MPH
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2014, 07:12:44 PM »
I'm  not sure what you are saying. Does the bike rev. good out of gear in neutral?

Black 750K8

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Re: Dragging clutch? Can't go over 10 MPH
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2014, 07:16:13 PM »
Dragging clutch means it is not releasing so it would clunk hard and jump forward when put in gear. If you put it in neutral that would take the clutch out of the equation.

Black 750K8

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Re: Dragging clutch? Can't go over 10 MPH
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2014, 07:22:17 PM »
I see you have the air box got a new filter in it? Have you pulled a plug wet or dry? Are all four pipes hot? You have to start ruling out fuel air or spark. Does the bike roll easy with the engine off nothing holding it back stuck brake?

Offline Xxthegonzxx

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Re: Dragging clutch? Can't go over 10 MPH
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2014, 07:31:05 PM »
It sounds like your clutch is working fine. Certain that it's not slipping? You can't rev it up in gear, you just have no power, right? Sounds like jetting.

OK, so maybe it's not the clutch. It's definitely not slipping just no power. I'm using 35's and 105's on the needles. It rev's up just fine just no power. It's the first time I'm running it after the rebuild and the first time I have an open Kerker installed on it. Do I need to get new needle jets? Bigger maybe? It idles just fine.

Offline Xxthegonzxx

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Re: Dragging clutch? Can't go over 10 MPH
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2014, 07:33:32 PM »
Dragging clutch means it is not releasing so it would clunk hard and jump forward when put in gear. If you put it in neutral that would take the clutch out of the equation.

Ah I see...OK well it's definitely not the clutch then. I'm going to do a compression test and see if all 4 cylinders are doing well. It's possible that it may be running on 2 cylinders maybe? Would only running on 2 cylinders under power the engine?

Offline Xxthegonzxx

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Re: Dragging clutch? Can't go over 10 MPH
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2014, 07:34:39 PM »
I see you have the air box got a new filter in it? Have you pulled a plug wet or dry? Are all four pipes hot? You have to start ruling out fuel air or spark. Does the bike roll easy with the engine off nothing holding it back stuck brake?

My filter on the air box is brand new. I haven't pulled the plugs yet but I'm sure it's getting fuel. I'll have to do some more digging and properly diagnose but I don't have time at the moment. I'll post with an update soon. Thanks.

Black 750K8

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Re: Dragging clutch? Can't go over 10 MPH
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2014, 07:39:02 PM »
Dragging clutch means it is not releasing so it would clunk hard and jump forward when put in gear. If you put it in neutral that would take the clutch out of the equation.

Ah I see...OK well it's definitely not the clutch then. I'm going to do a compression test and see if all 4 cylinders are doing well. It's possible that it may be running on 2 cylinders maybe? Would only running on 2 cylinders under power the engine?

 ??? Ya think

Offline Xxthegonzxx

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Re: Dragging clutch? Can't go over 10 MPH
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2014, 07:49:41 PM »


 ??? Ya think
[/quote]

I know. Stupid question but let's just say my brain feels like it's definitely firing on 2 cylinders today. I wish I didn't have to work tomorrow. I would spend all day trying to troubleshoot this damn thing!  :P

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Dragging clutch? Can't go over 10 MPH
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2014, 08:02:09 PM »
The F2 and F3 carbs are notorious for slow jet's getting blocked. You might think that your carbs are as clean as they can be, but the slow jets are really really hard to clean. You need to pull them out (they're pressed in, but you can twist them out with vice grips) and hold them up to the light and if you can't see thru them, use a piece of fine wire (I'm told a guitar string works well) to force any crud out, then spray carb cleaner thru the idle circuit in your carbs with the air screws out to ensure that they are clean.

Also, the ignition might be your problem, did you check for spark on all four plugs? Finally, your valves may need adjustment, follow the instructions in your workshop manual to ensure that the clearances aren't too tight, valve recession is not unusual in bikes that have been sitting for a few years, and if they're not completely closing, that cylinder won't fire, or if it does, it'll be way down on power.

There you go mate, fuel, spark or compression, it'll be one or more of these essential actions. Cheers, Terry. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Black 750K8

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Re: Dragging clutch? Can't go over 10 MPH
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2014, 08:03:30 PM »
If you think it is two then see if it is 1 and 3 or 2 and 4 if that is the case it could be electrical 1 and 3 share the same coil and the same set of points. same for 2 and 4.they have the other points and coil.

Black 750K8

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Re: Dragging clutch? Can't go over 10 MPH
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2014, 08:07:44 PM »
You might as well take the day off it is going to be bugging the crap out of you and your work will suffer from that ;D ;D  ;Hey works for me.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2014, 06:48:48 AM by Black 750K8 »

Offline Xxthegonzxx

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Re: Dragging clutch? Can't go over 10 MPH
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2014, 10:41:19 PM »
So I did some more testing and I might have found the culprit. All 4 pipes are hot, so I'm assuming it's running on all 4 cylinders. I know it's not the greatest way to test it but it works and it's fast. I just finished checking the timing and valves and it's all spot on. I started messing with my idle screws and screwed them all the way in until they lightly seated then backed out 1 3/4ths. It ran a little better but it still felt like it was bogged down. I have a feeling that my open Kerker and jetting might be the problem. Anyone know if I have to change my needle jets to a bigger size with the open kerker header? Should I be leaner or richer on the fuel screws?


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Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Dragging clutch? Can't go over 10 MPH
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2014, 03:20:50 AM »
Yeah mate, jetting up may be necessary as the stock F2/3 carbs were designed to run lean to please your EPA Nazi's.

With the stock airbox and filter you don't have to go too big on the mains, but I'd start with 120's, take it for a ride (hopefully it'll go faster than 10 MPH) do a plug chop and determine whether it's running too lean or too rich. Cheers, Terry. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline Xxthegonzxx

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Re: Dragging clutch? Can't go over 10 MPH
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2014, 08:54:56 AM »
Yeah mate, jetting up may be necessary as the stock F2/3 carbs were designed to run lean to please your EPA Nazi's.

With the stock airbox and filter you don't have to go too big on the mains, but I'd start with 120's, take it for a ride (hopefully it'll go faster than 10 MPH) do a plug chop and determine whether it's running too lean or too rich. Cheers, Terry. ;D

Thank Terry! It's good to get a confirmation on this. I'm going to take it in to a local shop. I think they have all kinds of Honda Needle jets on stock and see if they can bump me up.

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Dragging clutch? Can't go over 10 MPH
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2014, 11:13:56 PM »
Good idea mate, it's always hard to correctly diagnose an issue from several thousand miles away, whereas a good bike shop should be able to work out what's wrong in no time. Cheers, Terry. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline lrutt

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Re: Dragging clutch? Can't go over 10 MPH
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2014, 04:09:49 AM »
even with stock jetting though it's gonna run faster than you are indicating. I'm not buying jets at this point. Hell, my 750 will run faster than that on 2 cylinders. Are you sure you've taken the choke off?
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Offline grcamna2

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Re: Dragging clutch? Can't go over 10 MPH
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2014, 04:46:37 AM »
Can you get the baffle for the Kerker ? it may help w/ jetting a little.
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
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Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Black 750K8

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Re: Dragging clutch? Can't go over 10 MPH
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2014, 06:57:53 AM »
Please post back and let us know what they find. Like Terry said above a plug chop will tell you a lot.

Offline chewbacca5000

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Re: Dragging clutch? Can't go over 10 MPH
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2014, 07:11:41 AM »
I thought he had a problem with his clutch engaging?  I don't see how having the carbs off translates into only being able  go 8 to 10 MPH.  In his post he says he got a new cycle x clutch and race cut gears.

 I wonder clutch engagement point is properly adjusted?  After that I would go into the 3,000 mile tune up stuff.                                                     

Offline Xxthegonzxx

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Re: Dragging clutch? Can't go over 10 MPH
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2014, 10:41:41 AM »
So I took it out again and I was definitely able to go faster than 10MPH this time. I have to baby the throttle and gently let the RPM's rise in order for it to go faster. If I let off the throttle on a stop sign and pull the clutch, the RPM's drop and the bike dies. It definitely sounds like jetting to me and possibly idle screws. I'm waiting to get some cash so that i can get a baffle/cone on the header, which might help with the back pressure. This Kerker header is LOUD! My neighbors probably hate me but I plan on purchasing a baffle soon to quiet it down a bit. Shifting works well and all in all it seems to be ok, except for the carbs :(.  I scheduled some time on Monday to bring it into the shop. We'll see how it goes. Thank you all for the help.

Offline grcamna2

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Re: Dragging clutch? Can't go over 10 MPH
« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2014, 11:40:59 AM »
When you do the jetting it might be good to use the Original air box with a high flow filter for the best low-midrange performance.
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline chewbacca5000

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Re: Dragging clutch? Can't go over 10 MPH
« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2014, 01:30:11 PM »
That model uses an accelerator pump make sure the diaphram is not cracked.  You can check quick throttle twist with the airbox off.  If your accelerator pump is working it will squirt gas into all 4 carbs.  If you can gradually gain speed by slowing applying more throttle that that would be my guess.

What speed were you able to get to.

Offline Xxthegonzxx

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Re: Dragging clutch? Can't go over 10 MPH
« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2014, 01:41:44 PM »

When you do the jetting it might be good to use the Original air box with a high flow filter for the best low-midrange performance.

I have the original air box with a k&n filter


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