Topic: Powder coating

[Hon3ybadger]

What is the best oil to use in a bike that has a powder coated frame??

Possibly baby oil on the right hand....

Damn it I'm left handed

Me too! but I switch hit.

[Markcb750]

MarkCB - Thanks for the lesson in metallurgy! Now, i can skip going back to university to get my degree. The things we can learn on this forum!

I don't think anyone can dispute your points technically. If I may be so bold, I think the point Powderman might have been making was it wasn't necessary to heat to that level of temperature for high quality powder coat on a motorcycle. There's no disputing in an industrial/commercial application it is needed, but not for motorcycles. Does it harm the frame? Apparently not per your technical documentation. Just not "needed" for these parts.

There's no doubt your contractor knows his business very well, as Powderman knows his very well too. Just different ends of the service spectrum perhaps is the bulk of the misunderstanding.

Enjoy some great weather this weekend (finally)!

Indeed!

[Lostboy Steve]

Commercial/production coating is a completely different animal where the process is a combination of prepping processes that will result in an "acceptable" finish for the , as you say, narrow margin of profit. This can only be done by cutting corners that would be unacceptable for custom work. You won't find many places like that that will media blast the parts for the best adhesion and longest lasting durability. Seldom do these places do work for the end user. And the finish is not usually the show quality that a reputable custom coater can put out.
The heating before cleaning process is called outgassing or burn off cycle. Outgassing is done to cast parts that during the cooling process out of the molds casting debris and gasses get trapped in the pores as they close. When these parts go in the oven to cure these pores open and wreak havoc on the powder surface by creating bubbles and trash in the finish. These parts go in the oven at 450-475*F for an hour so these pores open and purge all this crap and then after it cools the blasting process take place ridding the part of this debris. The higher temps are to ensure that the pores that will open at cure temp will have already opened and purged. Old oily parts whether cast or not are put through this same process to bring to the surface these oils and greases and bake them off and bring them to the surface to be blasted off.
There are literally an endless amount of colors and textures that can be had. One of my suppliers has over 7500 colors in the archives and any color can be made, as well as many textures from wrinkles, crinkles,fine textures, heavy textures. Metallics in many colors. I can 99% match just about any car color on the market.
Properly cured powder is not effected by any oil.

^^ What he said... Also anyone interested in seeing some color options can go to http://www.prismaticpowders.com/ the possibilities are endless.

[thelowmax]

Ultimately, I wouldn't bother doing small parts if I can't do my own frame. And an oven isn't realistically viable for me. I did call around but haven't found anything for less than $300. In the meantime, I'm stripping the frame, polishing the engine, and continuing my search. Thanks guys.

One bit of knowledge that I didn't even think of that one guy told me was, that I needed to remove the bearings from the frame in order to powder coat. I guess taping things off isn't realistic.

[thelowmax]

Having read all the replies, I have come to the conclusion that I'm getting boned on the price, the thingamajig heated too much may or may not cause an owey on my whatsis, and I don't need to keep spitting on my hand. Thanks again.
 

[Powderman]

I'm trying to find you someone in Boston that will give you a fair price. What exactly do you need coated and what color do you want it. Year/Make/Model, frame, swing arm, etc.?

[Markcb750]

Having read all the replies, I have come to the conclusion that I'm getting boned on the price, the thingamajig heated too much may or may not cause an owey on my whatsis, and I don't need to keep spitting on my hand. Thanks again.
 

Kind of the problem with most things here, guys post too much BS and it becomes impossible for someone without experience to base a decision on, only thing that can happen is the advice seeker will gain experience as they try random samples of the expert advice they receive.

Like we all have learned though, you get what you pay for, and you pay for experience.


I like to enter these little debates, the thin skinned bail or call names, doesn't matter, only one can hurt you on the internet is the identity thieves.

It's all Good. I have become pretty good at making two of these old machines hum along partialy from reading and interacting here.   

[grcamna2]

If you can't find an affordable option for power coating locally, then try POR-15 chasis paint. Many members use it and swear by it's results. Some even spray clear coat over afterwards. It is possibly as close to a durable finish as powder coat, for a lot less money.

I love powder coating, and use it everywhere I can, but I understand not all projects have the budget for it.

Thanks for this option calj737.

[thelowmax]

I'm trying to find you someone in Boston that will give you a fair price. What exactly do you need coated and what color do you want it. Year/Make/Model, frame, swing arm, etc.?

I really appreciate it Powderman. I just got the latest quote… $675 to prep and coat, + $150-$200 for 'special colors". Good Lord. I only paid $300 for the bike.

All I'm looking to powder coat is the frame and swing arm. Though in retrospect, if it's going to cost an arm and a leg, I might as well add the trees and kickstand.

[thelowmax]

Having read all the replies, I have come to the conclusion that I'm getting boned on the price, the thingamajig heated too much may or may not cause an owey on my whatsis, and I don't need to keep spitting on my hand. Thanks again.
 

Kind of the problem with most things here, guys post too much BS and it becomes impossible for someone without experience to base a decision on, only thing that can happen is the advice seeker will gain experience as they try random samples of the expert advice they receive.

Like we all have learned though, you get what you pay for, and you pay for experience.


I like to enter these little debates, the thin skinned bail or call names, doesn't matter, only one can hurt you on the internet is the identity thieves.

It's all Good. I have become pretty good at making two of these old machines hum along partialy from reading and interacting here.   

I always enter this site with an open mind and a sense of humor. I'm not a technician or even really a mechanic in any sense of the terms. I do like to know what my options are and use them to make decisions based on what is best for me and my situation. In this forum, you've got to take the good with the bad and go from there.

[thelowmax]

I'm trying to find you someone in Boston that will give you a fair price. What exactly do you need coated and what color do you want it. Year/Make/Model, frame, swing arm, etc.?

This is in reference to a 1977 cb750k. Depending on cost, I would like to have the frame, swing arm, trees, and kick (can't think of anything else) done in gloss black. I really appreciate your help. Thanks.

[Powderman]

I'm trying to find you someone in Boston that will give you a fair price. What exactly do you need coated and what color do you want it. Year/Make/Model, frame, swing arm, etc.?

I really appreciate it Powderman. I just got the latest quote… $675 to prep and coat, + $150-$200 for 'special colors". Good Lord. I only paid $300 for the bike.

All I'm looking to powder coat is the frame and swing arm. Though in retrospect, if it's going to cost an arm and a leg, I might as well add the trees and kickstand.

You must have "sucker" tattooed on your forehead to be getting those kinds of quotes. What was the $675 quote for? What special colors were you wanting that would have added that much to the job? Explain exactly what you want done and I'll tell you what I would charge. What place gave you that quote? Did the quote include Vaseline or KY?

[Powderman]

I'm trying to find you someone in Boston that will give you a fair price. What exactly do you need coated and what color do you want it. Year/Make/Model, frame, swing arm, etc.?

This is in reference to a 1977 cb750k. Depending on cost, I would like to have the frame, swing arm, trees, and kick (can't think of anything else) done in gloss black. I really appreciate your help. Thanks.

I'd be just under $400 for that. Special color would run at most $35 to get a pound of any color in stock and that would do more than what you have to do.

[Lostboy Steve]

I'm trying to find you someone in Boston that will give you a fair price. What exactly do you need coated and what color do you want it. Year/Make/Model, frame, swing arm, etc.?

I really appreciate it Powderman. I just got the latest quote… $675 to prep and coat, + $150-$200 for 'special colors". Good Lord. I only paid $300 for the bike.

All I'm looking to powder coat is the frame and swing arm. Though in retrospect, if it's going to cost an arm and a leg, I might as well add the trees and kickstand.

You must have "sucker" tattooed on your forehead to be getting those kinds of coats. What was the $675 quote for? What special colors were you wanting that would have added that much to the job? Explain exactly what you want done and I'll tell you what I would charge. What place gave you that quote? Did the quote include Vaseline or KY?

lol I know a guy who did the entire floor pan of a vw in semi-gloss black powder. I doubt he charged much more. Just sayin. Thats a lot of surface area. The por15 stuff is amazing. Everything they sell seems to work really well. On another note, my buddy did his kawasaki 125 frame with Duplicolor Grabber Green engine paint. It matched his plastics almost perfectly and held up pretty well. He did many very thin coats and then let it dry for about 10 days.

[Vinhead1957]

I had a guy in Bradford Ma do my frame for $125.   I stripped it myself.   

[Powderman]

FYI, if you take it to a "for real" powder shop you are wasting your time stripping anything yourself. The price the quote you should include everything from stripping , blasting, coating and the cost of the powder. I don't care how much work you put in it blasting/stripping it, I am going to blast it anyways.

[thelowmax]

For the record, all I've done is Google "powder coat Boston", go through the list and call, leave a message (not one has picked up the phone) telling them what I'm looking to have done, and they call back with a quote. Out of 9 places, only 4 have actually called me back. They couldn't see the "sucker" sign anyway.

All I want done is my frame, swing arm and trees, in gloss black.

[lucky]

When I had two frames powder coated they sandblasted the almost clean frame.
Then they dipped the frame in a phosphoric acid bath to stop all of the corrosion inside the frame. Then a rinse tank.
After powder coating the frame was heated to 350º for a number of hours.

It comes out looking like black glass and very tough and resistant to scratching and nicks.
Worth every penny.

[Powderman]

When I had two frames powder coated they sandblasted the almost clean frame.
Then they dipped the frame in a phosphoric acid bath to stop all of the corrosion inside the frame. Then a rinse tank.
After powder coating the frame was heated to 350º for a number of hours.

It comes out looking like black glass and very tough and resistant to scratching and nicks.
Worth every penny.

You don't want to over cure the powder by leaving it in too long or it becomes brittle. The part is suppose to reach cure temp and stay there for 10 minutes, not a "number of hours"

[NobleHops]

What is the best oil to use in a bike that has a powder coated frame??

Oh nicely played sir, nicely played!

[NobleHops]

For the record, all I've done is Google "powder coat Boston", go through the list and call, leave a message (not one has picked up the phone) telling them what I'm looking to have done, and they call back with a quote. Out of 9 places, only 4 have actually called me back. They couldn't see the "sucker" sign anyway.

All I want done is my frame, swing arm and trees, in gloss black.

If you don't mind a drive up to the NH border, there is a guy in Greenland called Powder Coating Alternatives - his name is Don, and he is a craftsman:

http://www.propca.com/

He did all the powder work on my CBX project and also baked my engine after I painted it, and a bunch of other polishing and chrome work he sent out for me. He's a great guy too. I do not recall his prices, I don't think they were as sharp as Powderman's but I felt them fair.

Give him my regards!

[fendersrule]

I'm surprised to hear people here say that NO "reputable" power coating place will do piece work. That isn't true for all. Why should I pay someone to do the same thing I can do at home with professional equipment? Spraying and heating is the part that takes very little time. Sandblasting every little crevice is the time consuming part. Why should I pay $50/hour for someone to do that? I've took my blasted parts to a couple shops here and they all had no problem coating what I bring them. There's only one shop here in town that will not to peice work, and I choose to not do business with them.

For the shops that won't do piece work, there are shops that will. That doesn't mean of any quality difference...

Every shop I have been to says that chrome/nickel cannot be "blasted" off to bare steel. This is what I've heard from some industrial places here in town. I chose to take my chromed parts to Northwest Chrome and they chemically removed them for hardly any cost at all. Took them a day and I think I paid only $20-30 for two fenders and brackets.

[Powderman]

I'm surprised to hear people here say that NO "reputable" power coating place will do piece work. That isn't true for all. Why should I pay someone to do the same thing I can do at home with professional equipment? Spraying and heating is the part that takes very little time. Sandblasting every little crevice is the time consuming part. Why should I pay $50/hour for someone to do that? I've took my blasted parts to a couple shops here and they all had no problem coating what I bring them. There's only one shop here in town that will not to peice work, and I choose to not do business with them.

For the shops that won't do piece work, there are shops that will. That doesn't mean of any quality difference...

Every shop I have been to says that chrome/nickel cannot be "blasted" off to bare steel. This is what I've heard from some industrial places here in town. I chose to take my chromed parts to Northwest Chrome and they chemically removed them for hardly any cost at all. Took them a day and I think I paid only $20-30 for two fenders and brackets.

It's not that chrome can't be blasted to bare metal. It's just that it is so hard that it is time consuming doing it and they don't want to take the time or have to explain to you why it would cost so much to do it. In my area most of the chrome platers will not strip parts for you unless they get the job to rechrome it. By 2016 you will start to see many chrome placing closing down because of the new EPA regulations going into effect. My commercial blaster doesn't have any problem removing chrome. I was just discussing his set up tonight. He has a 75hp compressor that puts out 125ccfm at the nozzle with 3 booths running. Most places are lucky to have 13-20ccfm which is pretty good for blasting most things rapidly. Nickel is much softer then chrome and is easily blasted off.

[Lostboy Steve]

I'm surprised to hear people here say that NO "reputable" power coating place will do piece work. That isn't true for all. Why should I pay someone to do the same thing I can do at home with professional equipment? Spraying and heating is the part that takes very little time. Sandblasting every little crevice is the time consuming part. Why should I pay $50/hour for someone to do that? I've took my blasted parts to a couple shops here and they all had no problem coating what I bring them. There's only one shop here in town that will not to peice work, and I choose to not do business with them.

For the shops that won't do piece work, there are shops that will. That doesn't mean of any quality difference...

Every shop I have been to says that chrome/nickel cannot be "blasted" off to bare steel. This is what I've heard from some industrial places here in town. I chose to take my chromed parts to Northwest Chrome and they chemically removed them for hardly any cost at all. Took them a day and I think I paid only $20-30 for two fenders and brackets.

It's not that chrome can't be blasted to bare metal. It's just that it is so hard that it is time consuming doing it and they don't want to take the time or have to explain to you why it would cost so much to do it. In my area most of the chrome platers will not strip parts for you unless they get the job to rechrome it. By 2016 you will start to see many chrome placing closing down because of the new EPA regulations going into effect. My commercial blaster doesn't have any problem removing chrome. I was just discussing his set up tonight. He has a 75hp compressor that puts out 125ccfm at the nozzle with 3 booths running. Most places are lucky to have 13-20ccfm which is pretty good for blasting most things rapidly. Nickel is much softer then chrome and is easily blasted off.

Whats wrong with powdering over chrome? I had many parts that were done this way. You just need the media to etch the surface am I right? I had my 20" rims coated in wrinkle black because the chrome was peeling. I scraped off whatever was loose and the powdercoater etched the whole thing and coated them. Its been like 6 years and they still look great.

[Powderman]

You got lucky on your rims that the chrome didn't continue to peel off. It's an age old argument about whether you really need a blasted surface or not. Well of course many of us have had successful Candy jobs over polished chrome plating, aluminum or stainless that are still going strong today. I have never had a return from Candy colors peeling off chrome plating that hasn't been blasted. Is a blasted surface better, Yes. Is a non blasted surface not as durable, Yes. But does that mean it will peel off tomorrow, next week, or possibly never. No one knows. For numbers sake lets say a blasted surface is 100%, what is a non blasted surface, 90%, 75%, 50%? Who knows. If all that is needed for most applications is 50%, then we are probably safe to continue shooting candies on chrome. Use you best judgement on where to use the different applications. You don't want to use a Candy on a polished surface that sees a lot rocks and debris thrown at it, but it has it's uses.