Author Topic: Carburetor complete rebuild  (Read 1603 times)

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Offline Tempast

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Carburetor complete rebuild
« on: April 18, 2014, 09:22:14 PM »
Hi guys, first post here. Bit about me before I go into it. I'm 20 and have a 1977 CB550F SuperSport that my dad bought me when I was 16.
I grew up on my dads 1972 CB750K, learned on and regularly ride my dads 1978 CB750K and now have my own SOHC to enjoy.

I had it running for the first time in a few years and she ran pretty good but needed a valve adjustment and the carbs to be tuned.
After a few days I noticed a puddle of fuel underneath (yeeesss the petcock was closed) and pulled the carb. I put a new gasket and o-ring kit into them a few years ago and they're still in good shape.
I need to replace the float needles and possibly would like to replace the jets.
What kits would you recommend for me to replace the float needles?
And what kind of jets should I go with? I have the stock airbox but have a foam filter and plan on expanding the holes in the box. Stock 4-1, muffler has a hole that was patched by the PO but has rusted through and I plan on having my dad make me a shorty muffler like on his bikes.

I think the jets are about 98 or 100 stock, but I'm not sure because it's a Super Sport.
Should I go up to a 105 or 110 size main and leave the rest or should I bump the pilot a size as well?



http://www.jetsrus.com/a_jet_kit_street/honda_550_CB550F_1976.html

Will these jets work in a '77 550F Super Sport?

How about these float needles?

http://www.partsnmore.com/parts/honda/cb550/?filters%5Bfitting%5D=custom&filters%5Bcategory%5D=carb


Thanks for any input!

Offline goldarrow

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Re: Carburetor complete rebuild
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2014, 09:43:05 PM »
You need to get manual first
Life Is Full Of Challenges - And My Backyard Is Full Of SOHC4's

CB550 K0
CB750 K0, K2, K23 JDM, K45, K5
And the little ones z50r, xr50r, st90


750k5 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=114817.0

Offline Deltarider

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Re: Carburetor complete rebuild
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2014, 10:57:34 PM »
Quote
I need to replace the float needles and possibly would like to replace the jets.
What kits would you recommend for me to replace the float needles?
What makes you think you need to replace them?
Quote
And what kind of jets should I go with?
Stock is best. You can clean them. They rarely wear if at all.
Quote
I think the jets are about 98 or 100 stock, but I'm not sure because it's a Super Sport.
Manual and Parts lists will inform you standard for F models is 98. 100 can be used.
Quote
Should I go up to a 105 or 110 size main and leave the rest or should I bump the pilot a size as well?
No, I strongely recommend to start with how it was. Don't bump the pilot size.
Best advice: DON'T SEPARATE THE CARBS FROM EACHOTHER UNLESS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY (SELDOM THE CASE)
DON'T BEND THE FLOATTANGS UNLESS YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY SURE THEY'VE ALREADY BEEN MESSED WITH (SELDOM THE CASE)
Here is the manual:
http://www.sohc4.net/cb550books/
and here are the Parts Lists that will inform you if you have an F, an F1 or an F2.
http://www.honda4fun.com/materiale-documentazione-tecnica/parts-list/parts-list-cb550
Clean the carbs well. Abstain from agressive cleaners and abrasive tools/materials. These parts are soft bass and are easily damaged. Best tool is your common sense. Temper your energy to do it all at once. Not wise. Start with standard and if not satisfied you can always go step by step. That is after you have confirmed the ignition is perfect. If you are not satified with how it runs, always start with examining the ignition (given the carbs are clean).
Welcome.

« Last Edit: April 18, 2014, 11:21:25 PM by Deltarider »
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Offline dave500

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Re: Carburetor complete rebuild
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2014, 11:39:10 PM »
don't modify the airbox,leave it all alone!youll gain nothing by drilling holes in it.

Offline Deltarider

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Re: Carburetor complete rebuild
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2014, 11:52:42 PM »
Quote
don't modify the airbox,leave it all alone!youll gain nothing by drilling holes in it.
+1. Indeed, nothing but extra turbulence you can do without.
The bike as it was standard (when it left the shop) was perfect and everything had a reason.
Many can't leave things alone and are like this: they look at their bellybutton and think: hey, that knot is not tidy, it's not tidy at all... I can fix that. Then they start to unbutton and they're in a mess in no time.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2014, 12:08:05 AM by Deltarider »
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Carburetor complete rebuild
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2014, 01:22:17 AM »
have a 1977 CB550F SuperSport
I need to replace the float needles and possibly would like to replace the jets.
What do think makes the ones you have bad?

What kits would you recommend for me to replace the float needles? 
Aftermarket kit quality varies a lot.  Some aftermarket kits also change the design of the parts.  I'd prefer stock Keihin, which you can get from Honda, for example.

And what kind of jets should I go with? 
Keihin

I have the stock airbox but have a foam filter and plan on expanding the holes in the box. 
Don't.  You'll just make jetting more difficult becasue of the pressure difference reflected back into the carb throat, probably get a bunch more stumble upon throttle twist (until you find proper non-stock adjustment settings), and gain nothing but extra water ingress.

Stock 4-1, muffler has a hole that was patched by the PO but has rusted through and I plan on having my dad make me a shorty muffler like on his bikes.
Well, that will make your carb need a jetting change for sure.  The F bikes have 98 mains and the slide needle is clipped in the 2nd notch from top.  Open up the exhaust to make it loud, and the you'll probably have to go with K model jetting; 100 mains, and slide needle in the 4th clip position from the top.

Should I go up to a 105 or 110 size main and leave the rest or should I bump the pilot a size as well?
Leave the pilot alone it's normally a #38.  If you have to make pilot circuit changes, there should be enough pilot screw adjustment range to compensate.

http://www.jetsrus.com/a_jet_kit_street/honda_550_CB550F_1976.html

Will these jets work in a '77 550F Super Sport?
yes.

How about these float needles?

http://www.partsnmore.com/parts/honda/cb550/?filters%5Bfitting%5D=custom&filters%5Bcategory%5D=carb
Yes, #48-1510
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Deltarider

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Re: Carburetor complete rebuild
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2014, 01:48:43 AM »
Good sites and I can't say the parts are overpriced. All of you who have these oldstyle Kei-hin carbs, I can recommend the allen head bowl screws (they're bolts actually) as advertised. Much easier to remove the float bowls.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2014, 01:50:34 AM by Deltarider »
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Offline Bodi

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Re: Carburetor complete rebuild
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2014, 07:52:47 AM »
Any "bolt" under 1/4" is generally called a machine screw. The terms "bolt" and "screw" are used interchangeably with small dimensional English sizes (ie 1/8-24) and small metric sizes; "number" size English sizes (ie 10-32) should only be called machine screws.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2014, 08:02:33 AM by Bodi »

Offline Deltarider

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Re: Carburetor complete rebuild
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2014, 08:06:36 AM »
Thanks a lot Bodi 'cause in all honesty, I'm here to learn English e-ven-tu-ally.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5035TY5RSpg
« Last Edit: April 19, 2014, 08:08:24 AM by Deltarider »
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Offline Tempast

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Re: Carburetor complete rebuild
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2014, 06:09:34 PM »
the reason I need new needles is the old ones are plain worn out. There isn't any spring left in them and they're causing the fuel issue I'm having. And the reason I ask about larger jets is the foam filter and the fact that ill be getting a better flowing muffler. Would the 105 be too rich? If so ill go with the 100 size.
My plans for the bike are to make more power obviously. And to be a very quick corner carver. i like a bit of cafe influence.

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Carburetor complete rebuild
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2014, 06:52:34 PM »
If you are going to hack up the muffler, we have no way of predicting what the resulting back pressure change is going to be.  You are re-engineering the system to custom specs.  You will have to either dyno the bike to get a proper fuel map, or test and try different jet sizes 'til it runs properly, and show nice color on the spark plug deposits.

I already use the UNI NU-4055 foam filter in my F bikes with the stock muffler, and no changes to the stock jetting.  It's fine here near sea level.  But, if I ever have to change out the stock muffler, I'll have to also change the 069a jetting for certain.  An open exhaust installed on the F behaves far more like the free flowing, low pressure 4 into 4 that was found on the 74-76 K models.  So, that jetting is a good place to start. (100 Main and slide needle clipped in the 4th position).

If you are expecting the stock engine to make a noticable difference in power with only an open exhaust change, you're in for a disappointment, imo.
You will lose some low and midrange power, for a very small gain around and above red line RPM.  That is what a 4 into one normally does.  The Honda stock F muffler operates at a higher pressure, in part to make street riding power more balanced across the throttle range.  Your engine won't last as long at sustained higher revs, if that is of any concern to you.  But, that is the sacrifice racers usually bear, along with frequent engine rebuilds.  You will also need to downshift more frequently to get the engine into that upper power band.

If your main interest is in a canyon carver, the newer bikes do that far better than a 40 year old chassis and engine design, even with "upgrades".


How did you decide the old needles are "worn out"?  I have yet to wear out any of them on my many bikes.  I've got more than 50 of them here more than 30 years old.  If they don't spring, then soak them in carb cleaner to soften the gum and flush them out.

Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Tempast

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Re: Carburetor complete rebuild
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2014, 08:10:58 PM »
The muffler is already rusty and taking it off to repair it would be more work than fabricating one I really like the look of.
My dad's '72 has a short exhaust (He was told it was a Yoshi when he bought it close to 30 years ago)
And his '78 has a short exhaust that he built to look similar to the one on the '72.

http://s1296.photobucket.com/user/1986-300ZX/media/10274187_10152765846393916_5260824047668671747_n_zpsc041bc61.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

Horrible picture but it's similar to what I want (Slightly shorter though, ending at or before the passenger pedals)

I'll try cleaning the needles tomorrow but they move freely, just two of them don't have nearly as much spring as the other two and don't hold the floats at the same height because of it. (the tangs on the floats are adjusted)

Offline Deltarider

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Re: Carburetor complete rebuild
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2014, 11:16:46 PM »
Quote
the tangs on the floats are adjusted
By who and why?
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Offline Tempast

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Re: Carburetor complete rebuild
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2014, 10:08:00 AM »
The previous owner. Almost nothing on this bike is untouched. He tried to put in a headlight switch and failed. My dad and I redid half the wiring in the front and added a stock looking aftermarket switch. The carbs have been apart a couple of times. All the brass had scratches and dings from being disassembled with pliers. I guess he had the same problem as us with the floats not being the same height but he decided to mess with the tangs and not get new needles.

Offline lucky

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Re: Carburetor complete rebuild
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2014, 10:53:53 AM »
When people work on anything and know nothing they should think like a doctor.
DO NO HARM.