Author Topic: MY MOTOR IS LOCKED ??? - I"M SMILING LIKE A CHESHIRE CAT (Read 5975 times)

750goes · « **Reply #25 on:** September 16, 2006, 08:59:06 PM »

bill440cars,

I hate machines when they break -they are a pain, but I also have to realise this bike was recovered from a dump so I could probably question why it was there in the first place, although all mechanical indications were that the engine was not excellent but pretty good considering its age.. compression was ok, a few oil leaks - still ok, a few bugs to get it running (clean carbs, new plugs, points, timing, electrical things)... valve adjustments (only minor) cam chain (minor), dropped sump when I had the engine out, and primary chains looked good, tension seemed good, cam chain good, camshaft no real signs of wear, some fibre under the oil strainer filter (old bits of clutch)... no hunks of aluminum anywhere, but a fine sludge deposit on the bottom of the sump (long time bulld uo).
Exhaust ports were pretty carbon fouled.....

I know one thing after I fix it I will write a list of all the things I have done to it since owning it, so when it gets passed on or whatever that the next owner will at least know some history about it...save some worry wouldn't it.

SohcCBs · « **Reply #26 on:** September 16, 2006, 09:13:15 PM »

You stated you shift into 1st, can you get the rest of the gears on the other side of neutral?

750goes · « **Reply #27 on:** September 16, 2006, 09:28:54 PM »

I only tried first and second, when it shifted it sounded and felt fine - but the rear wheel refused to go back or forward.. but when I put it back in neutral it turned freely with no unusual to me transmission noise..

When it stopped I pushed it 50 yards back to my warehouse in neutral - it rolled easily..

Its on the centrestand now - so tomorrow I can check if it will move further to 3/4/5 and also check if the rear wheel will still move if I pull the clutch in (when in gear) - this should rule out a transmission lock up - so I go back to plan a/b/c/d which is

dropped valve/ bent valve/ broken cam chain/ broken primary chain/ piston glued to sleeve/ main crank broken/ camshaft broken/ cam bearings rat#$%*/ broken rocker arm/ major meltdown... any others I should not think of ??

mrbreeze · « **Reply #28 on:** September 16, 2006, 10:51:29 PM »

My main thought while reading this post is that this happened AFTER you dropped the bike.Could it have hit the ground so hard that it shifted the crank position somehow? I also thought hydra lock which might still be the case but you would think it would be puking out of the carbs like what was previously mentioned. Any ways,hope it isn't too major and if it is.....do it up right when you go through it.

750goes · « **Reply #29 on:** September 16, 2006, 11:10:27 PM »

mrbreeze,

when it hit the ground, I basically lost my balance on a tight left hand turn, and it fell if I can say as softly as I could as I was fighting it from hitting the concrete.(probably doing about 2mph or 5kmh)..the only damage to the bike was a scuffed stator cover about 1/2 inch and a scratch on the turn switch.. I hate to think that this has caused the problem as it would have been less than if someone pushed the bike over...the only damage to me was my pride....and laughing to myself when I picked it up...and I called myself a few names as well....like I can't say them here and remain a fiorum member...

guaranteed when I pull the motor, it will get another thourough going over, I'm not going to like pulling the motor AGAIN..but it looks like I have to do it.....BUGGER.

SohcCBs · « **Reply #30 on:** September 17, 2006, 06:52:07 AM »

Quote from: 750goes on September 16, 2006, 09:28:54 PM

move further to 3/4/5 and also check if the rear wheel will still move if I pull the clutch in (when in gear) - this should rule out a transmission lock up -

I'd certainly do this before pulling the engine.....maybe pull the clutch case....easy enough.
You stated you'd pulled the engine before, what was it that you had to do to it?
When you turn the tire are you gettting any slop in the engine? Try turning the clutch basket....this'll tell you for sure. My point being you can figure out if it's in the top or bottom end.

nickjtc · « **Reply #31 on:** September 17, 2006, 09:54:11 AM »

Now we're all waiting expectantly to hear the news.....who will be right in their diagnosis?? Maybe we should have a pool going?

number13 · « **Reply #32 on:** September 17, 2006, 12:11:25 PM »

Hurridly reading thru this @ work so forgive if this has been mentioned, do you think the accidental drop
may have jammed the generator rotor? That would lock it up as surely as anything else.

750goes · « **Reply #33 on:** September 17, 2006, 02:58:46 PM »

Guys,

I hopefully should be able to let you know later this afternoon or in about 12 hours from now - whatever time shows on the post..

Reason motor was out before , cleaning 30 years of built up dirt/filth/oil/ from everywhere it could go..and was so I could check its overall condition, and clean all the frame, have it powdercoated etc..and do a little bit pf painting the cases, the motor was not stripped just valve cover off, set the tappets, check all that I could, tip it upside down, sump off, clean and inspect oil pump, oil strainer screen, etc etc..then put it back together, back in frame after powdercoating - new oil, etc etc... bike been running for three weeks with no problems apart from #$%*ty idle, and dirty fuel problem.

I will personally congratulate the most correct member for their over the net diagnosis... and they will be called

??

thanks for all the great suggestions so far - I'm sure one of them is going to be right - also have a few OZ friends who have been more than useful in diagnosis mode - (screw it, shag it, stuff it - oh #$%* it's broken)....

750goes · « **Reply #34 on:** September 18, 2006, 01:02:04 AM »

DRUM ROLL PLEASE

AND THE WINNER IS

NUMBER13 - thank you EINSTEIN[/center[/size]]

2ND PLACE TO MR BREEZE - very close judging - OK its a TIE as MR BREEZE responded a bit earlier with a very close assessment..

thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you

I don't believe it was that simple -

I pulled 2 & 3 plugs - not hydro locked - all plugs sooty (running rich)
Could not turn motor either way from the points side with a big shifter ( I was being gentle here)
Not a bent valve
Not a dropped valve
Not cam chain or primary chain BUT - camchain top roller is pretty notchy by feel
Pistons not seized to cylinder walls
Not a bent gear shift lever or anything else under the cover
Transmission turning in all gears at the back wheel with clutch pulled in
Oil level is OK in the tank, plenty of oil around the valves
Nothing jammed on the sprocket
Cam shaft not seized

When I took the stator cover off the whole motor turned freely (BIG SMILE TIME), could not see any apparent damage but there was some scraping inside the rotor, but it did not look recent and had a thin coating of oil over it..I put it back on held by two screws only and cranked by hand - YES IT WAS BUMPING AND I COULD FEEL IT HITTING INSIDE THE COVER...

REPLACED THE STATOR WITH A LUCKY SPARE - AND IT IS NOW RUNNING AGAIN...

HOORAY

I will post a few pictures of the offending part tomorrow to show the damage - and how little was done to it...incredible luck, I will go and buy a lottery ticket

jtb · « **Reply #35 on:** September 18, 2006, 05:45:08 AM »

Good News, Goes!

SohcCBs · « **Reply #36 on:** September 18, 2006, 05:58:28 AM »

Ta Da, Great! Yes, these big wide engines don't hit the ground well.

Boomologist · « **Reply #37 on:** September 18, 2006, 06:58:08 AM »

Good news!
Do you know which part of the stator assembly was knocked out of line? Was it the case itself that just moved a little? If it is, did it bend the guide pins?

upperlake04 · « **Reply #38 on:** September 18, 2006, 07:13:29 AM »

I love a happy ending

number13 · « **Reply #39 on:** September 18, 2006, 08:31:15 AM »

WOOT! WOOT!

750goes · « **Reply #40 on:** September 18, 2006, 02:06:26 PM »

I'll post some pictures this afternoon and let you be the judge of the damage - but be lenient with me as this stator cover has been down theroad a few times already (not by me)

My little stumble may have been just enough to break the camels back..

thanks again

supersport_CB400F · « **Reply #41 on:** September 18, 2006, 02:44:53 PM »

I’m riding over through Cheshire to the Cat and Fiddle at the weekend….glad your bike is sorted...........cats and Cheshire, the only thing there is fields and pubs

mrbreeze · « **Reply #42 on:** September 18, 2006, 10:45:37 PM »

750 goes...Glad to have helped you out in some way.One of my most memerable instructors in college told me that as a mechanic,you have to be a good detective.You gave a good description of what happened so I returned with a suggestion.You also got some other things to check out plus the whole time you were probably "FREAKING OUT!!!!!" .......because you thought you turned your bike into a garage orniment.Glad to hear it wasn't too big of a deal.

750goes · « **Reply #43 on:** September 19, 2006, 12:20:43 AM »

Thanks MRBREEZE, yes I was freaking out just a little bit - totally turned my brain to mush trying to think through what could have happened to cause the problem, and totally did not believe it could be one simple thing

the photos are pretty ordinary, so the light does not reflect well or too well

I will post them one at a time with my description of the damages found...

750goes · « **Reply #44 on:** September 19, 2006, 12:34:15 AM »

This is the outside of the cover where it shows all the previous damage this cover has gone through

I know its not pretty, but it held oil, had no crack in it, and the electrics worked pretty well from the limited testing it was given.

The damage that is mine is hard to see - so the next photo will be a bit clearer

750goes · « **Reply #45 on:** September 19, 2006, 12:46:38 AM »

This picture is not too clear - but there is a gouge in the metal less than .05mm in depth where it looks like the rotor and stator decided to stick to each other...photo is not real good- the mark is up near the shiny bit and going across the picture if that helps in identifying it..

750goes · « **Reply #46 on:** September 19, 2006, 12:50:45 AM »

This photo shows MY damage - which is the same size as my fingernail and directly in front of it - so I think that all the previous damage has caused this problem to occur (but it was still my dropping it that caused it)..

News:

Author Topic: MY MOTOR IS LOCKED ??? - I"M SMILING LIKE A CHESHIRE CAT (Read 5975 times)

Boomologist

upperlake04

supersport_CB400F