Author Topic: 1977 CB750 K7 Resto-mod, Knoxville  (Read 115729 times)

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Offline enwri

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Resto-mod, Knoxville
« Reply #575 on: August 24, 2015, 07:49:57 PM »
It's not the O ring then, water in the fuel is rare, and it sits at the bottom of the bowl where the main jet can dip into it and not allow fuel through. Takes a good "suck" to pull it through and clear, cracking the drain screws will get rid of any water in the bowl, but might not dislodge any trapped in the jet and emulsion tube, handfull of throttle with the choke on will clear it once it has been drained.
Rarely get water in the tank though. It's a long shot.

Water can block inline filters too.
77 CB 750 k.. 29 years and counting.
91 TDM 850 (No.34) so comfy and soft
8? XJ 550 meh...
76 XL 350 Super Sport stump puller..
80 XR 200 idiot proof
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Offline AintNoEasyWay

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Resto-mod, Knoxville
« Reply #576 on: August 25, 2015, 07:25:35 AM »
Hold tight. Thinking this through, you say the bike idles and revs fine with choke, but no choke and you turn the throttle and it dies? Those are fairly conflicting symptoms. On one hand it would indicate a very lean condition (likes choke) and then it still should be happy when getting gas. And all this started after the rain storm?

Hey cal, yes, it revs fine with the choke out, which is why I'm confused. Also confusing is that I didn't have any of this trouble at all until the bike was hit with rain. The rain may not be a cause of all this, but there is solid correlation. I rode the bike about 20 miles to a music venue last wednesday evening, then got trapped inside during a rainstorm lasting a couple hours. When I finally got out, I was barely able to get the bike home, had very strange hesitation with the throttle. Then the next night, same hesitation. By Saturday, any throttle at all instantly kills the engine.

With the the choke on, will it rev past 3,500? Without choke, where's the idle, and where's the rev counter when it dies? Does it suddenly die like you flipped a switch, or does it Peter out, or stumble to death?

I can check this after work today. I believe it does rev past 3500 with the choke pulled out. Without choke, the bike dies suddenly... so at idle RPMs: around 1250. It doesn't peter out, it's as if I just clicked the kill switch or something. Even the slightest twist of the throttle kills it.

I talked with Ron last night & he suggested a 3 part course of elimination. First check how the bike runs if I play with the idle adjusting screws, turning it to idle at higher RPMs (does the engine die out then?), then check the in line fuel filter, then remove the airbox & see how the bike runs without it. Then I could also check the accel pump nozzles. At that point if the problem still isn't solved, I may go ahead & get new gas for the tank as well.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2015, 07:37:32 AM by AintNoEasyWay »

Offline AintNoEasyWay

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Resto-mod, Knoxville
« Reply #577 on: August 25, 2015, 01:20:42 PM »
I'm not sold on that diagnostic process. To me, it's all about the changed variable. If being immersed in a rain storm caused this, then carb setting changes make no sense to me.

Water infiltration into the electrics or fuel are the only realistic options that I would pursue. It's possibly there is contamination/corrosion of the KILL switch and when you roll the throttle it's somehow aggravating the electrics.

Yes, but still very strange that the bike survives a twist of the throttle when the choke is open. Agree? I'll be able to check things again in a couple hours when I get home. Maybe I'll go ahead & inspect the switch some.

Offline Restoration Fan

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Resto-mod, Knoxville
« Reply #578 on: August 25, 2015, 02:30:52 PM »
Yeah, I told Nate that he should try to eliminate one thing at a time. 
I suggested he try to ease the idle screw in and increase the rpm's slightly from 1250 to about 1500 or so.  Since twisting the throttle kills the engine, I wanted to see if increasing the RPM's via the idle screw would do the same thing.  The reasoning: if the engine still stops, it's almost certainly a fuel flow issue.

Assuming that doesn't kill the engine, then I suggested he remove the in-line fuel filter and see if the engine stays running on throttle twist....ruling out whether or not the fuel filter could be the problem.  Unlikely, I admit since the bike stays running while under choke.

If that doesn't solve it, then I suggested he remove the air box and try seeing what would happen with no air box on the bike, since he said the air box at one point had water in the bottom.  This should eliminate the possibility of a clogged/water-logged air filter as a possible culprit.

You could be right that it's an electric issue but that also wouldn't make sense if it stays running under choke...the vibrations that would cause a switch to not work will be the same under choke or not.
Ron

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Offline Restoration Fan

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Resto-mod, Knoxville
« Reply #579 on: August 25, 2015, 02:33:00 PM »
Yes, that is odd. Safe to assume this behavior did not exist before the rain shower?

He said it wasn't doing it prior to the rain shower...he even rode it 20 miles to the music venue.  It started on the ride home and got worse after that.
Ron

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Offline RAFster122s

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Resto-mod, Knoxville
« Reply #580 on: August 25, 2015, 02:46:30 PM »
It is possible that the coincidence of a ocked filter if it wasn't able to rev with choke on. But, he indicated that it is reving when choke is on.  I think that he is facing a electrical issues I am baffled by the choke allowing it to rev though. Check out your handlebar switches and unscrew it from the throttle side and see if off choke the issues disappear. If so, then something in the right switches is causing it.
Accelerator pump kicks in later than just off idle? ??
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline AintNoEasyWay

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Resto-mod, Knoxville
« Reply #581 on: August 25, 2015, 03:31:51 PM »
Ok guys, here's another video for you so you can see the difference in engine response. Today the bike can survive throttle when the choke is in, but you'll hear the engine hesitate & almost kill off when I rev. But when I turn further it catches & the engine stays alive. This is how it was behaving when I rode home after the rain on Wednesday night. I thought I might not make it home.

I'm wondering if maybe the fuel is delayed from the accelerator pump nozzles?

Also, any chance this is due to bad throttle cables? I guess that wouldn't kill the engine completely though...


I unscrewed the right controls RAF before taking this video. I looked inside & also tightened up the adjuster for the cable to remove some play. Maybe this helped the bike stay alive? The mystery continues.

Just an update: I removed the airbox & the bike died instantly it's throttle. But I verified that all the accel pump nozzles are working properly.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2015, 04:42:59 PM by AintNoEasyWay »

Offline AintNoEasyWay

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Resto-mod, Knoxville
« Reply #582 on: August 25, 2015, 05:11:57 PM »
What do your plugs look like now?

A little hint, if you want us to hear the engine, better to position the camera beside or behind the exhaust; it will produce a more accurate sound for us listeners  :)

Question for you: what are you groping under the right side of the tank for so long during the choke changes?

Can you drain the fuel in the bowls into glass and examine it?

Good call on the video-taking. I just wanted you guys to see how quickly it died when I twisted the throttle.

Here are photos of plugs 1 & 4. Then a photo of some float bowl fuel I drained into a cup. I promise that's fuel, guys.

I'm groping the idle adjuster screw to see if the RPMs change at all after I rev it.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2015, 05:14:03 PM by AintNoEasyWay »

Offline AintNoEasyWay

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Resto-mod, Knoxville
« Reply #583 on: August 25, 2015, 09:13:33 PM »
Well, one of your plugs clearly indicates you're not firing on that cylinder. Probably why it runs like poop. The super clean plug is not combusting. Either no gas or no spark. Better pull 2/3 and have a peak.

That'd be #1 that's not firing. I was having trouble with this cylinder not firing when I first started the new engine. It didn't look like this last Thursday when I pulled it to check it. I believe it was running at that time. I haven't checked that I have spark on all four plugs recently, but I do know that all four pipes were hot yesterday (didn't check today). I'll pull 2& 3 for a look today.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2015, 10:11:35 PM by AintNoEasyWay »

Offline enwri

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Resto-mod, Knoxville
« Reply #584 on: August 26, 2015, 08:20:50 AM »
Today the bike can survive throttle when the choke is in,
Plug caps and leads drying out?

Do you use ethanol mix fuel? I haven't had much experience with it. Does water stay separated out or absorb into the alcohol?
 
77 CB 750 k.. 29 years and counting.
91 TDM 850 (No.34) so comfy and soft
8? XJ 550 meh...
76 XL 350 Super Sport stump puller..
80 XR 200 idiot proof
75 MX 250 b dangerous

Offline Restoration Fan

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Resto-mod, Knoxville
« Reply #585 on: August 26, 2015, 08:56:35 AM »
He uses ethanol-free gas.
Ron

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Offline AintNoEasyWay

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Resto-mod, Knoxville
« Reply #586 on: August 26, 2015, 09:47:45 AM »
Today the bike can survive throttle when the choke is in,
Plug caps and leads drying out?

Do you use ethanol mix fuel? I haven't had much experience with it. Does water stay separated out or absorb into the alcohol?

Haha, Ron knows me best. Yes, I use ethanol-free, 100% gas.

Not sure that the plug caps are really drying out. Last Saturday the bike was stuttering with throttle, then I took off the airbox & it seemed like the accel pump nozzles weren't working quite like they should. So I took the carbs off & checked the jets & went ahead & got the accel pump back to normal. Then once I put the carbs back on, the bike would die with throttle (choke in) no matter what. 

For whatever reason, yesterday it was back to behaving as it was before I removed the carbs Saturday, which is that hesitation/almost dying until i get back 1/4 turn of throttle.

Offline Restoration Fan

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Resto-mod, Knoxville
« Reply #587 on: August 26, 2015, 09:51:31 AM »
Nate,
When we spoke you mentioned that you didn't remove the main jets.  You might want to take those out and clean them...make sure there's no garbage or debris in there causing the hesitation on throttle roll.
Ron

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Offline AintNoEasyWay

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Resto-mod, Knoxville
« Reply #588 on: August 26, 2015, 10:33:43 AM »
Nate,
When we spoke you mentioned that you didn't remove the main jets.  You might want to take those out and clean them...make sure there's no garbage or debris in there causing the hesitation on throttle roll.

Yep, that'll be my next move probably. When I get home tonight I'll check plugs 2 & 3, then go from there. What an awesome week of weather I'm missing!

Offline AintNoEasyWay

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Resto-mod, Knoxville
« Reply #589 on: August 27, 2015, 04:17:38 PM »
Ok guys, finally got to take a look at these 2 & 3 plugs. They look great to me. What do you guys think?

Offline AintNoEasyWay

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Resto-mod, Knoxville
« Reply #590 on: August 28, 2015, 06:41:20 AM »
:D Now solve the fuel issue on #1

Sounds good, cal. Should I just pull all the jets & clean them all thoroughly?

Here's one more video I did: I put the camera behind the exhaust for this one.

Offline AintNoEasyWay

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Resto-mod, Knoxville
« Reply #591 on: August 28, 2015, 09:46:12 AM »
I'd still prefer to see a fuel level on 1&2 as comparison.

Not sure what you mean here. Could you clarify?

Offline AintNoEasyWay

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Resto-mod, Knoxville
« Reply #592 on: August 28, 2015, 06:18:01 PM »
Fuel levels still looked good when I checked this evening. The bike was still hesitating as before when I started it up tonight. I decided, what the hell, before taking the carbs off I'll put some sea foam in the tank. Did that & now the bike runs fine. I took it around the block & for about a 7 mile ride just before dark. Tomorrow I'll try it on a longer 20 mile ride & see how that goes.

Maybe I had water in my tank or a clogged jet & the sea foam took care of it? Really not sure what to say about this, guys... Wish I had a better answer for what happened. Fuel that I drained from my bowls into a white cup did have a small amount of debris in it, so I think I'll clean the tank out as thoroughly as possible within the next week or so.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2015, 06:22:14 PM by AintNoEasyWay »

Offline Restoration Fan

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Resto-mod, Knoxville
« Reply #593 on: August 28, 2015, 06:33:36 PM »
Hmmm....bad fuel, huh?  Too bad no one suggested you dump out the fuel and just put new fuel in there.  ::)  ;)  :)
Ron

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Offline AintNoEasyWay

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Resto-mod, Knoxville
« Reply #594 on: August 28, 2015, 07:08:36 PM »
Hmmm....bad fuel, huh?  Too bad no one suggested you dump out the fuel and just put new fuel in there.  ::)  ;)  :)

Maybe so, Ron! Wish I could know for sure. I will be putting new fuel in it first thing in the morning. Thanks for your help!

Offline AintNoEasyWay

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Resto-mod, Knoxville
« Reply #595 on: August 31, 2015, 10:38:38 AM »
With Ron's help, I managed to fix an increasingly worrisome leak I had coming from my stator/transmission cover. I went ahead & changed the oil for the first time since the engine rebuild.

The leak was just a few drips in the beginning but Saturday afternoon I started up the bike to ride & within seconds I had a real puddle of oil built up. After draining the oil I pulled both covers & found that I had used two stator gaskets instead of one! I also had only fit one of the stator wire grommets to the cover. The other grommet had slid back & I hadn't attached it properly. I went ahead & put non hardening sealant on both grommets & gaskets & got the covers back on, along with new oil.

Been riding a good bit since then & no leak yet. Let's hope it stays that way!

Offline Restoration Fan

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Resto-mod, Knoxville
« Reply #596 on: August 31, 2015, 06:11:03 PM »
That's great news, Nate.

I, on the other hand, went the other way.  A buddy showed up yesterday to my house.  We were going to ride together to go & have drinks with an old & dear friend who has ALS (Lou Gehrig's disease) and is in pretty bad shape.

While he was at my house, I showed him the bike he had heard so much about and even cranked it so he could hear her purr.  Well........we left and went for drinks...not getting home for about 3.5 hours and when I got home, I noticed this very strong odor of gasoline in the garage.  I looked over at Stella and there's like 2 gallons of gas on the garage floor.  I had left her on her kick stand with the petcock fully opened and she was weeping gas at a steady drip via the overflow tubes.

Put her up on the center stand after quickly turning off the gas and she's no longer leaking gas but I learned a lesson the hard way about forgetting to turn off the gas.  ::)
Ron

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Resto-mod, Knoxville
« Reply #597 on: August 31, 2015, 07:51:27 PM »
I think EVERYONE has done that (leaving the petcock on), especially those coming from riding modern EFI bikes with no petcock.
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Offline madmtnmotors

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Resto-mod, Knoxville
« Reply #598 on: September 01, 2015, 03:57:50 AM »
I learned a lesson the hard way about forgetting to turn off the gas.  ::)


Yep, those are the lessons that stick with you.  8)

Now if I could just remember to turn it back on every time!  :o  ;D
TAMTF...


Wilbur



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Offline AintNoEasyWay

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Resto-mod, Knoxville
« Reply #599 on: September 01, 2015, 05:28:47 AM »
I learned a lesson the hard way about forgetting to turn off the gas.  ::)


Yep, those are the lessons that stick with you.  8)

Now if I could just remember to turn it back on every time!  :o  ;D

Started down the road the other day & the bike died out on me. I was clueless. I hadn't turned the fuel on! Why is this such a difficult thing to make stick in one's mind? haha.

Ron, glad it wasn't anything more serious though. Hope you're starting to really get to enjoy Stella!

« Last Edit: September 01, 2015, 05:38:31 AM by AintNoEasyWay »