Author Topic: 1977 CB750 K7 Resto-mod, Knoxville (Read 97821 times)

Prez1967 · « **Reply #50 on:** June 18, 2014, 04:28:51 AM »

Great build!!! I'm "building" a '78 I just picked up myself and am following the same build theory. I'm trying to streamline the bike as is for now. Went with Carpy's turn signals, plate/taillight relocator and will be ordering some pods and his 4-1 soon. Went with Norman Hyde M bars.

I had an issue with replacing my front signals yesterday in that after I did the install, either my battery died or I shorted something out (not sure how). Will trouble shoot today. Before I lost power, my turn buzzer was constant on as well. Might just pick up a new switch and be done with it as my right side switch has seen better days also.

I wanted something lower than the Euro bars as I'm a bit taller than most and wanted to get myself lower into the bike but need to adjust the Hyde bars as they contact the tank.

Great progress you've made! I look forward to seeing more of your bike!

AintNoEasyWay · « **Reply #51 on:** June 18, 2014, 05:17:16 AM »

Hey Prez, pretty rad to hear some about your build. Have you started a project thread yet? Would love to see it.

I wasn't aware Carpy had a lot that may help my build; I've bought from him before though, new fasteners to go around my carb boots. He seems like an awesome guy, so thanks for reminding me to check his site again for anything I might need. I am still on the lookout for new turn signals. Which ones did you go with & are you happy with the look?

Also, I'm thinking about just buying a new signal switch as well. Going to tear into it tonight & see if it's an easy fix like enwri mentions though.

AintNoEasyWay · « **Reply #52 on:** June 18, 2014, 05:33:33 AM »

By the way, my new seat cover came in from the eBay seller you guys recommended. Can't wait to get home tonight & see what I can do with it.

Prez1967 · « **Reply #53 on:** June 18, 2014, 06:21:07 AM »

Quote from: AintNoEasyWay on June 18, 2014, 05:17:16 AM

Hey Prez, pretty rad to hear some about your build. Have you started a project thread yet? Would love to see it.

I wasn't aware Carpy had a lot that may help my build; I've bought from him before though, new fasteners to go around my carb boots. He seems like an awesome guy, so thanks for reminding me to check his site again for anything I might need. I am still on the lookout for new turn signals. Which ones did you go with & are you happy with the look?

Also, I'm thinking about just buying a new signal switch as well. Going to tear into it tonight & see if it's an easy fix like enwri mentions though.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=138009.0

Im really happy with the look of these turn signals. I need to get the front end apart and remove the original ears for the factory units but for now, I dig it.

Carpy has been great so far and I've only placed one order with him. Everytime I call with a question I hope to get one of his desk guys but when he picks up the phone, hes more than willing to chat and answer my questions.

I bought a spare 78 seat that I hope to have recovered locally to mimic the Giuliari style as I'd like to keep the factory two up seat for when the wife wants to come along. Still debating if I should delete the rear fender all together and run my tag and brake light on the side or if I should cut it down and/or use a modified fender mount tailight/tag solution. Already bought the side bracket/light so we'll see which way I'll go.

The more I dig into my bike, the more I want to rip it completely apart and start from the frame. Dont feel comfortable enough just yet tearing it down that far but only one way to learn right?

enwri · « **Reply #54 on:** June 19, 2014, 02:06:08 AM »

Fiddly little bits. And the fiddly bits tool kit. Centrepunch, dremel and 12 thou brass feeler gauge.

AintNoEasyWay · « **Reply #55 on:** July 15, 2014, 08:33:09 AM »

Finally got the bike ready for summer. Seat is recovered & good to go. I am having charging system issues though. I have to use the kick start every time in order to get the bike running. Can ride for about 45 minutes, only to turn off the battery & see that I still can't use the starter button to fire it up. I haven't tried testing the system yet. When I rev the engine the headlight becomes much brighter, otherwise it's pretty dim at all times (& there's no noticeable difference between hi & lo beam). I still haven't sorted out my turn signals either. I'm wondering if there's some relation between them not working & the charging system not working?

Photo of the bike in its current form is attached.

Prez1967 · « **Reply #56 on:** July 15, 2014, 09:05:32 AM »

Lookin good brother!

calj737 · « **Reply #57 on:** July 15, 2014, 10:02:20 AM »

Sounds as though you're either not recharging, or not holding a charge. Most likely culprit is a bad battery. But, check all ground wires for clean, corrosion-free contact to bare metal, and any corrosion on the connectors between alternator and harness.

AintNoEasyWay · « **Reply #58 on:** July 15, 2014, 10:23:12 AM »

Quote from: Prez1967 on July 15, 2014, 09:05:32 AM

Lookin good brother!

Thanks, Prez!

Quote from: calj737 on July 15, 2014, 10:02:20 AM

Sounds as though you're either not recharging, or not holding a charge. Most likely culprit is a bad battery. But, check all ground wires for clean, corrosion-free contact to bare metal, and any corrosion on the connectors between alternator and harness.

Thanks, calj. I'm hoping to dig into it tonight. I bought a new battery when I first got the bike last May, but the bike wasn't starting with the new battery (had to restore a lot of things). I didn't get the bike running until almost a year later, but I left the battery unplugged for all that time. The battery eventually went out during my attempts to get the bike running, so I recharged it a few times. The bike will then start ok from the starter button, so I assume the battery isn't able to hold a charge. Could it still be a battery problem despite that it's barely been used?

enwri · « **Reply #59 on:** July 15, 2014, 11:57:59 AM »

It's been a while since I've heard from you, assumed you've just been cruising around looking cool on the new ride.
It's been my experience that barely used batteries generally seem to die early.
If I've been stuck riding around in traffic, sitting on the brake with flashers on, it will eventually stop starting with the starter after about half an hour.
Have found that I can hold it on slight grades on the front brake without the stoplight coming on (pressure switch not so sensitive to low pressure) and riding around in first or second gear between lights, as well as occasionally idling at about 2500 - 3000 for a minute or so, will keep it at about break even, ( Hot women stuck in cars beside you will think you're cool, I can tell by the looks I get, ) A quick run up the highway and back will get it up there again. Recently bought a gel or glass mat sealed battery, have had to knock the charge voltage down so as to not exceed 14.2-4, apparently they try to gas over that and can be damaged, it gets up there pretty quickly after a bit of a run, was told wet batteries not as sensitive as you can just replace the water as it gasses off.
There's probably something wrong with mine too, but I'm just happy there's a kickstart on it.
They're really hard to clutch start it in traffic, Le Mans style. ( it's almost 4 times as heavy as I am )
The dyna made it go flat quicker, I'll probably put the points back on, only put it on to fix a misfire in the wet that wasn't actually anything to do with the ignition. (Wet overflow tubes, in slightly wrong position after messing about with them, took me a long time to work that out)

At least it starts first kick, first compression just about every time, holding the starter button at the same time I can usually kick it while sitting as well. Too easy.

You can barely notice the voltmeter if you don't actually look. It went from 12.9v with ignition off, To 12.28 with it on in seconds.

AintNoEasyWay · « **Reply #60 on:** July 15, 2014, 12:33:27 PM »

Quote from: enwri on July 15, 2014, 11:57:59 AM

It's been a while since I've heard from you, assumed you've just been cruising around looking cool on the new ride.
It's been my experience that barely used batteries generally seem to die early.
If I've been stuck riding around in traffic, sitting on the brake with flashers on, it will eventually stop starting with the starter after about half an hour.
Have found that I can hold it on slight grades on the front brake without the stoplight coming on (pressure switch not so sensitive to low pressure) and riding around in first or second gear between lights, as well as occasionally idling at about 2500 - 3000 for a minute or so, will keep it at about break even, ( Hot women stuck in cars beside you will think you're cool, I can tell by the looks I get, ) A quick run up the highway and back will get it up there again. Recently bought a gel or glass mat sealed battery, have had to knock the charge voltage down so as to not exceed 14.2-4, apparently they try to gas over that and can be damaged, it gets up there pretty quickly after a bit of a run, was told wet batteries not as sensitive as you can just replace the water as it gasses off.
There's probably something wrong with mine too, but I'm just happy there's a kickstart on it.
They're really hard to clutch start it in traffic, Le Mans style. ( it's almost 4 times as heavy as I am )
The dyna made it go flat quicker, I'll probably put the points back on, only put it on to fix a misfire in the wet that wasn't actually anything to do with the ignition. (Wet overflow tubes, in slightly wrong position after messing about with them, took me a long time to work that out)

At least it starts first kick, first compression just about every time, holding the starter button at the same time I can usually kick it while sitting as well. Too easy.

You can barely notice the voltmeter if you don't actually look. It went from 12.9v with ignition off, To 12.28 with it on in seconds.

Hey enwri, always enjoy & appreciate your replies. Yes, I've been out riding a good bit. Definitely enjoy getting the looks

. I did switch the bike over to a PAMCO electronic ignition with new high output coils (maybe this is sucking the life from my battery?). I didn't think this would cause trouble, but then again, I have no electrical knowledge, so that could be what I get for assuming.

My bike will start first kick, no issues there. Also, I'm also sitting on the bike when I kick it on. Never understood why some people don't do it this way as it feels very natural to me.

calj737 · « **Reply #61 on:** July 15, 2014, 01:42:07 PM »

To answer your question: yes, despite the age or lack of use, it can go bad. Especially if you have over-discharged it. You need to test is with a meter with the key off. Then while idling, at 2, 3, 4 and 5,000 RPMs. Note the voltage at the battery.

You should see more than 12.8 from 3k up. If not, you have a charging/drain issue. If you are seeing it, then you have a storage issue. Enwri is right, AGMs are much better batteries and worth the price.

AintNoEasyWay · « **Reply #62 on:** July 15, 2014, 06:01:31 PM »

Quote from: calj737 on July 15, 2014, 01:42:07 PM

To answer your question: yes, despite the age or lack of use, it can go bad. Especially if you have over-discharged it. You need to test is with a meter with the key off. Then while idling, at 2, 3, 4 and 5,000 RPMs. Note the voltage at the battery.

You should see more than 12.8 from 3k up. If not, you have a charging/drain issue. If you are seeing it, then you have a storage issue. Enwri is right, AGMs are much better batteries and worth the price.

Rode the bike for a bit this evening, maybe about 30 minutes. Pulled back into the garage & started checking my lights & voltage. Headlight seems to remain about the same, like I said, whether on high or low. Only my right front signal stays on when bike is sitting at idle. If I'm riding the bike, I can sometimes get the signals to flash & the indicator buzzer to sound. Definitely wondering if that means these issues are all charging related.

I didn't try any more voltage readings other than just straight on the battery. But with bike off, I read 8.5 Vdc from the battery. My bike idles at about 1250, but for some reason the battery reads only 6.7 at idle. Up to 2k I get ~7.5, then up to 3k I get ~8.3. Does this make any sense?! At least this implies that battery is attempting to charge, correct? I wanted to check reading on the stator this evening, but the engine case was still pretty warm, & I had other things to get to this evening? Any recommendations for my next course of action tomorrow evening?

enwri · « **Reply #63 on:** July 15, 2014, 06:30:22 PM »

That's not right. did you get a new flasher switch? there is potential for a dead short inside it if it isn't wired in correctly, there are three terminals in the switch that all get connected together at once. other than that, there are far wiser people than I to help on here. last weekend I blew out my oil pressure sender switch by feeding it 12 volts from the field coil supply. oops, little bit of magic smoke from the starter motor cover as well. Who said that this 37 year old insulation goes brittle, bit of heat makes it nice and pliable.

calj737 · « **Reply #64 on:** July 15, 2014, 08:09:56 PM »

Easy - you got electrical issues. Pain and simple. Those voltages are way too low! Yes, at 3k getting more than idle is a good sign, but, the resting voltage and the peak voltage are too low to even support a 12v system.

Please follow this flow chart and report back:
http://www.electrosport.com/technical-resources/diagnosis-center/fault-finding-guide

This is a step-by-step process for assessing each component in your electrical system. You only need a multimeter and little experience. But the results are proof of what/which components are failing.

Start tonight if you can, by charging the battery overnight, and thru the day tomorrow until the charger displays "Fully Charged". Then commence with the diagnostics. Performing these tests with an unknown battery is pointless, and from the readings you gave earlier, your battery is very suspect.

AintNoEasyWay · « **Reply #65 on:** July 16, 2014, 05:20:00 AM »

Sounds good, calj. I may have to wait until the weekend if I need to charge through the night as I will be out of town until about 9 PM tomorrow. I'll be reading through this though & searching the forums to try to learn more about electrical problems. Will be back with an update by the end of the week. Thanks for your guidance.

calj737 · « **Reply #66 on:** July 16, 2014, 05:22:00 AM »

You know what they say: advice is free. Good advice is rare. Solid answers are only found on your own after ignoring the advice.

AintNoEasyWay · « **Reply #67 on:** July 16, 2014, 10:16:20 AM »

Quote from: enwri on July 15, 2014, 06:30:22 PM

That's not right. did you get a new flasher switch? there is potential for a dead short inside it if it isn't wired in correctly, there are three terminals in the switch that all get connected together at once. other than that, there are far wiser people than I to help on here. last weekend I blew out my oil pressure sender switch by feeding it 12 volts from the field coil supply. oops, little bit of magic smoke from the starter motor cover as well. Who said that this 37 year old insulation goes brittle, bit of heat makes it nice and pliable.

Hey enwri, haven't changed out the flasher switch yet; i was hoping that solving charging issues would get the lights working again, but now that I think about it, that probably won't happen since at least the right front indicator works (I should specify it doesn't flash when I turn on flasher switch right, except occasionally when I'm riding, it just comes on when I put the key in the ignition).

enwri · « **Reply #68 on:** July 16, 2014, 07:25:49 PM »

You're almost finished, I would concentrate on the charging too, it would be good to be able to isolate the flasher circuit to make sure it wasn't playing a part in the problem, electricity does all sorts of weird stuff when it finds it's own way through compromised circuits, it is still likely that the flashers could come good when fed the proper voltage. From what I've seen on here, some bikes have indicator buzzers up near the headlight, is that where your noise is coming from? mine hasn't got one but the flasher unit under the sidecover makes a buzzing noise when the flasher switch started going bad. easiest place to start is check for obvious trapped or pinched wires, wrongly connected, or fitted parts, my example is the rectifier on mine had spun a bit and one of the heatsink fins was touching the regulator. It was supposed to be isolated from the frame. Cant remember what made me search for a fault, but something must have seemed wrong. If nothing obvious, then you get the logic head on and go through the troubleshooting chart. Some people just know what those components do and what different faults appear as, I'm not one of those people, I rely on them to explain what to check. I've also been lucky not to have any major trouble either. Luckily the engineers made these thing fairly robust, and able to cope with me connecting the wrong bits together. Just remember "smoke and big splatty sparks are usually bad."

attached photo of rectifier short damage on regulator, in the middle of photo

AintNoEasyWay · « **Reply #69 on:** July 17, 2014, 05:38:32 AM »

Great, enwri. I didn't realize that some bikes make a buzzing sound for the signals if they're starting to go bad. I just heard the sound & after looking on the forums, found out that bikes made that sound when the signals are switched on. I'll have to look to see if the sound is coming from the front of the bike or behind the left side cover. Really wish I could start testing all this out tonight! Too bad work gets in the way of the bike sometimes.

AintNoEasyWay · « **Reply #70 on:** July 23, 2014, 05:31:02 AM »

Turns out that I never had any charging problems at all. After testing continuity across many of my wires, I decided to take my battery back to the store I bought it from & have it tested there. The battery I bought almost a year ago was faulty & they used my warranty to give me a new one.

Started up the bike with the starter button immediately yesterday with no hiccups whatsoever. Headlights are much brighter than before, turn signals all work except the rear left signal, which I’ll switch out tonight. Plus, now the gear indicator is actually bright enough to tell me when I’m in neutral. So this is what full voltage looks like? Very cool.

Anyway, I'm in business & now I can move on to phase 2. Dun dun… dun. Lots of polishing. Time to change out wheel & steering bearings. New swing arm bushings. New Godffery front brake disc & rear brake pads…

But mostly, a hell of a lot more riding.

AintNoEasyWay · « **Reply #71 on:** July 23, 2014, 05:41:30 AM »

Does anyone have advice or recommended links for polishing? I have a basic knowledge of how to start out. Maybe 120 grit & gradually work up to 600?, degreasing before each new grit & using a cross hatch pattern over the previous grit. I also have a bench grinder, so I'm able to use a buffing wheel.

calj737 · « **Reply #72 on:** July 23, 2014, 05:52:13 AM »

Where you start and where you finish depends entirely upon the condition of your parts. If they are in very bad condition (oxidized, greasy, and scratched) many use a chem strip to remove the clear coat, then degrease, then commence with sanding.

If you've got scratches, you'll need to start with about 80 grit to get them out. Then proceed to 150, 320, 600, 1000, and finally 1500-2000 for best results. After sanding, 3 step rouge on a cotton wheel and lots of beer. Wear some face protection with the cotton wheel, and work in a slightly "protected space" as the wheel will splatter everything.

You could check out Never2Old's build thread on the 400 as he just did this whole process. If you on want a mirror finish, it's all about the multi-steps of sanding, and then the rouges.

If you have access, a great place to start is a blast cabinet. Use glass bead, coarse, then fine, then commence with wet sanding at 400 grit, 600, 1000. Faster and more uniform than the hand sanding. Expect each part to take several hours to get right and complete.

The result is all about the work. No short cuts to it unfortunately.

enwri · « **Reply #73 on:** July 23, 2014, 06:18:53 AM »

Good to hear it's all come good. Time to get the miles on it.
At the moment it's 11:20 pm. 9°c I'm 80 k's from home on a 175 k round trip. and have just stopped to put on another shirt that I have normally wrapped around my tool kit in my bag.
Phone went off in my pocket, just came back in phone range. Saw your reply and am trying to get my hands working again. This is cold for me.

Made it back, down the Gillies Range, perfect conditions, can see lights coming from around the corners, much warmer at the bottom. 263 tight corners, and 800 m elevation change in 19 km of road. You'd think that front brake would have used up all it's squeal, nope, plenty more left for waking up the neighbours.

AintNoEasyWay · « **Reply #74 on:** July 28, 2014, 05:08:51 PM »

Started up my bike after work today & have a new issue(s). Blue-ish smoke coming out of the exhaust & an oil leak coming from the front of the engine. You can see the leak slightly in the photos below. The leak comes from around the #2 exhaust flange & drips down onto my frame before forming a puddle below the engine.

What the hell?! I thought I had this thing in great condition. Would really appreciate tips on how to move forward from here. I've just started reading up on this, but it sounds like I could be in trouble. I shut off the bike & won't run it again until I know for sure what's going on, lest I create some bigger engine issue I'm not aware of. Thanks, guys.

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Author Topic: 1977 CB750 K7 Resto-mod, Knoxville (Read 97821 times)