Author Topic: 1977 CB750 K7 Resto-mod, Knoxville  (Read 98915 times)

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Offline AintNoEasyWay

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Restore (w/ a few alterations)
« Reply #75 on: August 05, 2014, 05:56:16 AM »
I wonder what's making the bike run so lean? I have a standard air box, all standard jetting, clips on the needles are set one down from top, carbs totally clean. My only non-stock part would be my 4-into-1 exhaust. I tuned the carbs to match my 2nd carb, & everything seemed to be running fine...

Some news: I have everything uninstalled to take the engine out, except the exhaust studs. It looks like the engine will slip right out once I have these removed. I tried some heat & PB blaster, then went for the double nut technique, but they still wouldn't budge. I figured I'd let them sit with PB blaster & see if I have better luck later.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2014, 06:06:26 AM by AintNoEasyWay »

Offline edhaeuser

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Restore (w/ a few alterations)
« Reply #76 on: August 05, 2014, 06:06:31 AM »
I wonder what's making the bike run so lean? I have a standard air box, all standard jetting, clips on the needles are set one down from top, carbs totally clean. My only non-stock part would be my 4-into-1 exhaust. I tuned the carbs to match my 2nd carb, & everything seemed to be running fine...

Some news: I have everything uninstalled to take the engine out, except the exhaust studs. It looks the engine will slip right out once I have these removed. I tried some heat & PB blaster, then went for the double nut technique, but they still wouldn't budge. I figured I'd let them sit with PB blaster & see if I have better luck later.

Exhaust studs.....I hate those things.  Whatever you do, if you break one off, promise you won't try an easy out.  Use reverse drill bits ant drill it out.  If you are lucky, the stud may come out with tbe drill bit.  If not, you can drill oversize for a helicoil.  Heat works good too....(before it is broken especially)

I just spent hours with diamond bit die grinders to grind an easyout from a stud.  Compliments of a PO.  I went through about 15 bits just to get the easyout removed.  Then I could go back to my regular reverse drill technique.

Ed

Offline AintNoEasyWay

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Restore (w/ a few alterations)
« Reply #77 on: August 05, 2014, 06:13:21 AM »
I'd encourage you to leave those studs in there... If you snap one off, you'll be hating life.

If you must remove them, use a proper stud puller with some directed heat in the stud. But engine should wriggle free with some effort.

Interesting. My dad & a friend tried helping yesterday, but there didn't seem to be any way to remove the engine without removing the studs. Tilting the engine forward to lift the engine over the back right side of the frame isn't possible because the studs just lock against the frame & I'm afraid of breaking one of by letting it rest on a stud or having a stud hit the frame too hard. We tried using an engine hoist, but that just lifted the entire bike off the ground & the engine was still "locked" into the frame.

The only thing I haven't tried is laying the bike on its side, which I'm trying to avoid.

Offline AintNoEasyWay

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Restore (w/ a few alterations)
« Reply #78 on: August 05, 2014, 06:23:29 AM »
Exhaust studs.....I hate those things.  Whatever you do, if you break one off, promise you won't try an easy out. 

Haha, thanks, Ed. I promise!

Offline enwri

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Restore (w/ a few alterations)
« Reply #79 on: August 05, 2014, 06:36:46 AM »
Now you know what we mean about the frame kit thing. The engine will come out with the studs in but it's a tight fit, every little bit helps though. Especially if you don't want to scratch the frame paintwork. I used a narrow block of wood on a trolley jack between the frame rails, (so it could move sideways with the jack until it hit the rail, let it down and moved it to get another 2 inches of movement out of the jack.) and moved it out inch by inch to another block flush with the rails, swapped the jack to the outside when it was halfway. it only takes a little tilt to clear , used a big screwdriver to lever it sideways bit by bit from around the back of the gearbox, keep it fairly even or it jams in.
Interested to see what's going on in this one. I'm sure valves used to look like that when we still had lead in the fuel, but you've got bigger problems than that at the moment.
77 CB 750 k.. 29 years and counting.
91 TDM 850 (No.34) so comfy and soft
8? XJ 550 meh...
76 XL 350 Super Sport stump puller..
80 XR 200 idiot proof
75 MX 250 b dangerous

Offline enwri

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Restore (w/ a few alterations)
« Reply #80 on: August 05, 2014, 07:50:54 AM »
Well maybe valves weren't quite that white, but I was expecting at least one of those ex. valves to be wet and oily. Looks a bit wet up closer to the guide though. ( I'm still hoping for an easy fix with guide seals.)
I keep reading how the 77-78's were jetted really lean for pollution control anyway, that's why they needed accelerator pumps. Just maybe not that lean.
77 CB 750 k.. 29 years and counting.
91 TDM 850 (No.34) so comfy and soft
8? XJ 550 meh...
76 XL 350 Super Sport stump puller..
80 XR 200 idiot proof
75 MX 250 b dangerous

Offline AintNoEasyWay

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Restore (w/ a few alterations)
« Reply #81 on: August 05, 2014, 08:05:24 AM »
Quite possibly that one carb was a bit clogged or float was low.

As far as I can tell, every exhaust valve has a white coating. I'll post up better photos once I have the engine apart. Maybe all my floats are too low?

Offline enwri

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Restore (w/ a few alterations)
« Reply #82 on: August 05, 2014, 08:39:45 AM »
Interested to see what's going on in this one. I'm sure valves used to look like that when we still had lead in the fuel, but you've got bigger problems than that at the moment.
Well maybe valves weren't quite that white, but I was expecting at least one of those ex. valves to be wet and oily. Looks a bit wet up closer to the guide though. ( I'm still hoping for an easy fix with guide seals.)
I keep reading how the 77-78's were jetted really lean for pollution control anyway, that's why they needed accelerator pumps. Just maybe not that lean.

Quite possibly that one carb was a bit clogged or float was low.

As far as I can tell, every exhaust valve has a white coating. I'll post up better photos once I have the engine apart. Maybe all my floats are too low?

Mine are at 12.5mm, needles need to be set at their leanest to run on light throttle properly. stock airbox mains and 35 pilots with 4 into 1. was going to try 14.5. different fuel maybe?

Sorry, don't mind me, just worked out how to quote myself and others.
77 CB 750 k.. 29 years and counting.
91 TDM 850 (No.34) so comfy and soft
8? XJ 550 meh...
76 XL 350 Super Sport stump puller..
80 XR 200 idiot proof
75 MX 250 b dangerous

Offline AintNoEasyWay

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Restore (w/ a few alterations)
« Reply #83 on: August 05, 2014, 10:52:51 AM »
Hey enwri, yep, the only thing different is that I think my needle shims are set one down from the top spacing. I can check again since I've already got my carbs out. But like you say, less concerned about that at the moment. Will make sure it gets solved before everything goes back on the bike though.

Offline AintNoEasyWay

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Restore (w/ a few alterations)
« Reply #84 on: August 09, 2014, 03:54:37 PM »
 So my engine slid out easily today. Not sure why we were having so much trouble with it before, but it was almost a joke getting it out today. about 3 seconds & it was on the furniture dolly. I've taken out the rocker arms & cam shaft. Can any tell me any tricksfor getting the rocker arms lined up correctly again when I'm putting the engine back together? Looks like it'd be quite the task, but just guessing.

So now I'm left to get the head off. Some of those bolts are in hard to reach spots as far as I can tell. I am letting PB blaster soak on the bolts overnight & I'll be back at it in the morning, with a lot of photos then.

Offline AintNoEasyWay

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Restore (w/ a few alterations)
« Reply #85 on: August 10, 2014, 04:13:23 PM »
Having a hell of a time getting off the cam holder that's over the #1 & #2 cylinders. After some work, I managed to get the other holder off, but this second one absolutely won't budge. I've put PB blaster all around it & down the screw/bolt holes, but it still refuses to come off. Any advice for what I can do to get this thing off? It's the only thing holding me up!

Offline enwri

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Restore (w/ a few alterations)
« Reply #86 on: August 10, 2014, 05:40:40 PM »
If you can find a place to get a block and lever under a rocker shaft just slid out of the holder enough to get under it (keep it within all its bushes), or other edge (not any mating surface) make it something that wont mark the shaft and will only push straight up, as close to the dowels as possible, if it lifts at all make it a fraction of a millimetre at a time and work all the dowels evenly. lift it as straight as possible.
Obviously don't use enough force to break the shaft out of the holder, (probably not much, you might find out.) it's had those rockers trying their best to push it up and out but you're pushing from the wrong side of the bush, loading it unevenly, on only one end of the shaft .( rockers are using two bushes at a time.)
It's also assuming the shafts will slip in towards the centre of the head as well as out. Can't remember if they will.
  If anyone posts a preferred safer method, use that instead.
77 CB 750 k.. 29 years and counting.
91 TDM 850 (No.34) so comfy and soft
8? XJ 550 meh...
76 XL 350 Super Sport stump puller..
80 XR 200 idiot proof
75 MX 250 b dangerous

Offline AintNoEasyWay

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Restore (w/ a few alterations)
« Reply #87 on: August 12, 2014, 05:33:55 AM »
Still no luck getting this second cam holder off. I really don't no why it's stuck on there. Let it set yesterday after spraying again with PB blaster to no avail. Like you say, enwri, I'd prefer to treat it gently in all cases as I know how important the rocker arms shaft & holes are. Anyone else have ideas for getting this part off so I can finally move on?

Offline AintNoEasyWay

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Restore (w/ a few alterations)
« Reply #88 on: August 12, 2014, 06:20:30 AM »
Can you run a strap thru the rocker sleeves and use the engine's own weight? Slip the straps over a truss and barely lift the engine by the strap, an inch off the ground is enough to allow them to move. You certainly don't want the engine to break loose and come crashing down. Heavy padding below is also advisable. But just hang it and let gravity be your tool.

Also, some heat directed at the base will potentially unlock what's seized.

Sounds great, calj. I'll give that a shot this evening. I'm just trying not to damage the inner part of the cam holder where the rocker arm shafts go.

Offline enwri

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Restore (w/ a few alterations)
« Reply #89 on: August 12, 2014, 08:02:09 AM »
Just be aware that if only one dowel lets go it could drop and try to bend the studs and damage the other dowel hole by pulling off at an angle.  Keep it close to to the ground if you go that way. It's heavy enough to hurt itself. You will probably still need to lever it unless it just comes loose while lifting it .
« Last Edit: August 13, 2014, 07:57:39 AM by enwri »
77 CB 750 k.. 29 years and counting.
91 TDM 850 (No.34) so comfy and soft
8? XJ 550 meh...
76 XL 350 Super Sport stump puller..
80 XR 200 idiot proof
75 MX 250 b dangerous

Offline AintNoEasyWay

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Restore (w/ a few alterations)
« Reply #90 on: August 12, 2014, 04:33:08 PM »
Finally got the other holder free after some gentle mallet work. Everything is in good shape. I've removed all the bolts to the head, but it's stuck too. Sprayed PB around where the head gasket sits, so hopefully this will be less trouble than that damn cam holder!

Offline enwri

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Restore (w/ a few alterations)
« Reply #91 on: August 12, 2014, 07:10:33 PM »
Even all the little bolts? also, as soon as you can lift the head, or even before, get those little oil restrictors in the oil holes out, and in a safe place. Don't let them fall out in the grass in the driveway when you're degreasing the head and hosing it off. (Just in case you were thinking of doing that.)
77 CB 750 k.. 29 years and counting.
91 TDM 850 (No.34) so comfy and soft
8? XJ 550 meh...
76 XL 350 Super Sport stump puller..
80 XR 200 idiot proof
75 MX 250 b dangerous

Offline AintNoEasyWay

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Restore (w/ a few alterations)
« Reply #92 on: August 13, 2014, 07:25:16 AM »
As far as I can tell, there are no other bolts to loosen. I put up a photo below of the bolts that I removed. I removed all the numbered bolts & all bolts that are marked in red on the pic. Did I miss anything? I'm working in my Dad's garage, thankfully, so I shouldn't lose anything unless I'm just totally careless.

Offline enwri

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Restore (w/ a few alterations)
« Reply #93 on: August 13, 2014, 08:25:14 PM »
That looks like plenty of bolts to me, Did you ever find any wet plugs or exhaust ports? or were they all the same.
You might get away with an easy rebuild yet.
could the P.O. have filled the pipe with oil to preserve it and it's starting to blow out?
I don't know how many miles you've done on it, or how many it's done in total.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2014, 01:29:55 AM by enwri »
77 CB 750 k.. 29 years and counting.
91 TDM 850 (No.34) so comfy and soft
8? XJ 550 meh...
76 XL 350 Super Sport stump puller..
80 XR 200 idiot proof
75 MX 250 b dangerous

Offline AintNoEasyWay

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Restore (w/ a few alterations)
« Reply #94 on: August 14, 2014, 05:21:53 AM »
That looks like plenty of bolts to me, Did you ever find any wet plugs or exhaust ports? or were they all the same.
You might get away with an easy rebuild yet.
could the P.O. have filled the pipe with oil to preserve it and it's starting to blow out?
I don't know how many miles you've done on it, or how many it's done in total.

Morning enwri (suppose it's evening for you?). The plugs looked fine, but I only removed the outer two, #1 & #4. I'll be sure to remove #2 & #3 when I get home today & report back. Exhaust ports all look normal too except all the build of grime & oil collected around the inner ports, but that's mostly down a bit further on the fins near the ports.

It's possible the PO did some storage prep work & neglected to tell me about this. But that's doubtful given that he had done nothing to preserve the tank, carbs, master cylinder, & front brake, all of which I've had to restore.

Offline enwri

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Restore (w/ a few alterations)
« Reply #95 on: August 14, 2014, 05:54:43 AM »
10:30 pm and raining here. In a mates shed, fiddling with it again. No work until Monday for me. Might go up to Palm Cove jetty for a ride later and watch the Japanese tourists fishing. There's some keen ones amongst that lot, guaranteed someone will be hoping for a marlin off the jetty.

Nope... No-one fishing, too wet, too windy.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2014, 07:55:36 AM by enwri »
77 CB 750 k.. 29 years and counting.
91 TDM 850 (No.34) so comfy and soft
8? XJ 550 meh...
76 XL 350 Super Sport stump puller..
80 XR 200 idiot proof
75 MX 250 b dangerous

Offline AintNoEasyWay

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Restore (w/ a few alterations)
« Reply #96 on: August 14, 2014, 06:16:33 PM »
Enwri, that sounds like a great time.

I was able to work my engine head off today after letting the gasket soak in more PB blaster & gently tapping a putty knife with a mallet around the gasket. Soaking the base gasket in PB overnight tonight & hoping to remove the cylinders tomorrow.

I also checked all my spark plugs. Spark plugs 1, 2, & 4 all look normal while 3 looks very dark in comparison. See #3 in the photo below. I'm thinking that maybe oil is getting past the rings & onto the #3 spark plug. Would you guys agree?
« Last Edit: August 14, 2014, 06:26:17 PM by AintNoEasyWay »

Offline enwri

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Restore (w/ a few alterations)
« Reply #97 on: August 14, 2014, 08:42:52 PM »
  There are a few ways to get oil in a cylinder, gasket failure or cracked castings between an oil gallery and a cylinder,  the two studs either side of the cam chain tunnel on the intake side, are under pressure and can blow oil out. Return galleries can sometimes get broken into as well, cylinder pressure can blow into the gallery, and pull oil in on the intake stroke. (exhaust coming out the crankcase breathers, oil blowing out everywhere else it can.)
   The valve guide seals on the intake valves letting oil pull into the port, the port when running, has a vacuum trying to pull oil through the guide, can also just flow under gravity or capillary action when not running. Exhaust guide seals can leak as well, but usually just by gravity/capillary when stopped. Usually seen as a puff of smoke when starting and then reducing, unless completely failed with badly worn guides.
 
Or the cylinder, because of rings, either gummed up, worn beyond tolerance or broken, or damage to the cylinder wall or piston.

 I'm going to bet on gummed up oil rings, either stuck out and worn off, or glued in and not touching the sides, plus the hard guide seals. (hoping anyway.)

 On a separate note, I'm sure you know this, and took due care.
   Whilst  happy to see hammers and chisels in action on all things I can, I would say, the mating surfaces of finely machined parts is probably one of the rare times I would advise against them.
I doubt that there's any damage done, but little nicks in the sides of studs from being hit, create a failure point,  burrs hold things apart, gouges create gaps between things that gasket goo cannot always fill.
77 CB 750 k.. 29 years and counting.
91 TDM 850 (No.34) so comfy and soft
8? XJ 550 meh...
76 XL 350 Super Sport stump puller..
80 XR 200 idiot proof
75 MX 250 b dangerous

Offline AintNoEasyWay

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Restore (w/ a few alterations)
« Reply #98 on: August 15, 2014, 12:38:18 PM »
Cool. Thanks, enwri. I have tried to be careful with the putty knife; I don't know of any alternatives given that the parts refuse to move without some serious push. How else can I break the seals? I'm planning on replacing the studs, so any damage done to them won't affect the rebuilt engine, as far as I can think.

Offline enwri

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Re: 1977 CB750 K7 Restore (w/ a few alterations)
« Reply #99 on: August 15, 2014, 05:58:25 PM »
Yeah, you don't get much of a choice on where to push these things apart. It's screwdrivers that do the most damage anyway, hammered into gaps and deforming edges, or levering on bits that break off. Unless you are looking to run it on nitromethane or way over torque them these studs should be okay. Others on here might know why these ones seem inadequate and need replacing.
77 CB 750 k.. 29 years and counting.
91 TDM 850 (No.34) so comfy and soft
8? XJ 550 meh...
76 XL 350 Super Sport stump puller..
80 XR 200 idiot proof
75 MX 250 b dangerous