Author Topic: Rectifier/Regulator  (Read 1767 times)

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Offline rocks

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Rectifier/Regulator
« on: May 27, 2014, 04:51:05 PM »
Hi guys, I have a 1975 CB750F, and I'm trying to upgrade the old single rectifier and regulator with a one unit rectifier/regulator.

I don't wanna adventure with this as I might cook my R/R.
The 3 yellow wires on R/R go to 3 yellow wires from the harness.
The red wire on R/R goes to red on old rectifier.
The green wire on R/R goes to green on old rectifier.

How about the black wire on R/R, does it connect to black wire on regulator?

Now I have a white and a green wires left, where do they connect?



« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 05:32:03 AM by Glenn Stauffer »

Offline rocks

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Re: Rectifier/Regulator
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2014, 06:08:44 PM »
Anyone,  ;)

Offline Bodi

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Re: Rectifier/Regulator
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2014, 07:14:20 PM »
reg/rect        bike

3 yellow - 3 yellow (no order) (alternator stator windings)
red           red (battery +)
black        black (switched power - key on)                 |
green      green (ground, all greens go to ground)     |- these three are from the old regulator
white       white (to alternator field coil)                          |

That's it I think. The old regulator must be disconnected.

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Rectifier/Regulator
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2014, 09:06:36 PM »
Not all R/Rs are interchangeable, as some are designated to work with Permanent magnet alternators vs. the electrically excited alternators used on the SOHC4.

You didn't say where the one you've selected came from.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Bodi

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Re: Rectifier/Regulator
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2014, 08:16:07 AM »
I thought about that, but it seems to have an extra ground for the field coil, assumed that the white wire would be controlled DC to the field. It is possible it's controlled ground of course. That would cause zero alternator output but not, as far as I know, damage a controlled ground regulator.
After hookup test it: switch ignition to ON, and measure the voltage at the white wire. With the engine not running I figure the battery voltage will be low enough that the field should be full on: if all is well you should have almost battery voltage between white and ground. If not, disconnect the white and measure from it  to ground and black (ignition ON again). A switched ground reg will show around a volt from ground and about a volt less than battery voltage to black. To use it you have to rewire the field coil so it gets power on one wire from a black wire, and the white reg wire to the other field wire. Stock reg grounds one field wire with the other one still to the white.
A blown electronic reg will either show zero volts to ground or bat+ if the output device has blown "short", or an indeterminate voltage - floating around depending on your meter - if the output device has blown "open".

Offline rocks

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Re: Rectifier/Regulator
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2014, 03:36:02 PM »
Not all R/Rs are interchangeable, as some are designated to work with Permanent magnet alternators vs. the electrically excited alternators used on the SOHC4.

You didn't say where the one you've selected came from.

My bad, R/R came off 1980 CM400. I do have another one very similar from 1978 CB400T.

I think the phase charging system is:

Rotor / Stator / Field coil
« Last Edit: May 31, 2014, 03:49:20 PM by rocks »

Offline rocks

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Re: Rectifier/Regulator
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2014, 04:19:38 PM »
reg/rect        bike

3 yellow - 3 yellow (no order) (alternator stator windings)
red           red (battery +)
black        black (switched power - key on)                 |
green      green (ground, all greens go to ground)     |- these three are from the old regulator
white       white (to alternator field coil)                          |

That's it I think. The old regulator must be disconnected.

Exempt my R/R doesn't have a white wire, the picture of it is above.

The white wire on CB750 goes from the alternator to regulator,

On a CM400 it goes from  alternator to Capacitor Discharge Ignition Unit

Does CB750 have that CDI?
« Last Edit: May 31, 2014, 04:33:02 PM by rocks »

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Rectifier/Regulator
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2014, 04:40:16 PM »
My bad, R/R came off 1980 CM400. I do have another one very similar from 1978 CB400T.

I don't have a wire diagram and service manual for either of those bikes.  What I can find on line seems to show the CM400 Alternator as a Permanent mag type.  If so, the R/R for that bike won't work for the SOHC4.  I didn't do enough digging to investigate the CB400T for you.

If you have the bikes, look at the wires and state the colors coming out of the alternator to the regulator.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline rocks

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Re: Rectifier/Regulator
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2014, 05:40:25 PM »
My bad, R/R came off 1980 CM400. I do have another one very similar from 1978 CB400T.

I don't have a wire diagram and service manual for either of those bikes.  What I can find on line seems to show the CM400 Alternator as a Permanent mag type.  If so, the R/R for that bike won't work for the SOHC4.  I didn't do enough digging to investigate the CB400T for you.

If you have the bikes, look at the wires and state the colors coming out of the alternator to the regulator.

How could you tell what type the alternator is?

Thanks for your help

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Rectifier/Regulator
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2014, 07:59:55 PM »
By the number and color of the wires going into it. Or, looking at the wire diagram for the bike.

There must be a magnetic field inside the alternator for it to make power.
Electromagnets need wires and electrical power to energize the magnet and make that field.   Permanent magnets are always energized, so that field is always there.

The electromagnet types (SOHC4) have regulators to very the strength of the electromagnet, in order to vary the stator yellow wire outputs when the rotor is spinning. The regulators reduce the electromagnet voltage when the battery is full to prevent overcharge.

PM type alternators make voltage on the yellows whenever the rotor is spinning.   The regulator then shunts (or gates) excess power so as not to overcharge the battery.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Bodi

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Re: Rectifier/Regulator
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2014, 06:05:25 AM »
CM400. Hmm. This is indeed designed for a permanent magnet alternator.
Get a reg/rect that is compatible or use the stock parts. Oregon Electric and others supply "electronic" units that will work.
It is possible to use what you have: you connect the field wire (white) to ignition power (black). This puts the field coil at full power and the alternator output is also at maximum. Then the shunt regulator works as if it had a permanent magnet alternator attached.
This is not advisable though. The stock alternator wasn't designed to be at full power 100% of the time, some survive but some burn out. I would specifically avoid doing this with a bike using slip rings in the alternator.

Offline lucky

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Re: Rectifier/Regulator
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2014, 10:47:53 AM »
reg/rect        bike

3 yellow - 3 yellow (no order) (alternator stator windings)
red           red (battery +)
black        black (switched power - key on)                 |
green      green (ground, all greens go to ground)     |- these three are from the old regulator
white       white (to alternator field coil)                          |

That's it I think. The old regulator must be disconnected.

Exempt my R/R doesn't have a white wire, the picture of it is above.

The white wire on CB750 goes from the alternator to regulator,

On a CM400 it goes from  alternator to Capacitor Discharge Ignition Unit

Does CB750 have that CDI?


No. Different system completely.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2014, 10:50:23 AM by lucky »