Author Topic: Fragile Ultimate coil failed, ended up in fried Pamco  (Read 1397 times)

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Offline PeWe

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Fragile Ultimate coil failed, ended up in fried Pamco
« on: May 03, 2014, 03:45:34 am »
Check that you have OK Ultimate coil plug wire connections!! Screw inside still attached into the coil? See attached photo.
Wire can still look OK when it fit tight, insulation vs coil.
This to avoid fried ignition, replace the coil(s) in time.

I have found the reason of carb jetting problems since October were I had tried many different sizes of pilot vs main jets without finding the good running combination.

When I finally could drive the bike the problem showed its ugly face very clear when the bike started to run on 3, then 2 cylinders.

When checking the coil of not hot exhausts, removed the wires that came off a little bit too easy.
I tested with OEM coils, still not working on 2-3 side where the bad coil was connected. Problem followed the 2-3 wirings from Pamco unit.

I have no time waiting for an eventual deal with the shop I bought the Ultimate kit July 2012 (vintagecb750), started to use it October 2013 and warranty most likely legally over.

Bit into the sour apple today, went to my local shop to spend $$$.
- Dyna S DS1-2
- Dyna 3 ohm coils DC-1
- Dyna wire kits 8mm suppression...

The Dyna green 3ohm coil has a build quality that the Ultimate does not have.
-Signal connections: Screw terminals for crimped connectors instead of flat pins.
-Spark wire connections: NO sharp thin screws, sockets to fit the spark wire as car ignitions has used for decades.

If I should use Pamco again,  Dyna coils or similar construction.

Time for garage connecting the new ignition.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2014, 03:48:35 am by PeWe »
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline Ford40

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Re: Fragile Ultimate coil failed, ended up in fried Pamco
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2014, 04:23:43 pm »
how long were you using these coils before this happened

Offline PeWe

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Re: Fragile Ultimate coil failed, ended up in fried Pamco
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2014, 03:59:47 am »
A few hours..... :(
Must have happened when I mounted the wires. I twisted them on until they stopped. I did not feel that the screws came loose in the coil.  No valid warranty....

Broke far too easy, that's why I wrote this warning for others to mount the wires with extra care.

I have Dyna now, changed to 5ohm coils due to the power consumption.
(Ok with my local dealer when I measured that direct)
The charging system is OK, not too much Volt which is important with electronic ignition. Measured with lamp on or off idle up to 5000 rpm.
More details here       http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=61168.msg1545997#msg1545997

CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

AJK

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Re: Fragile Ultimate coil failed, ended up in fried Pamco
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2014, 04:54:05 am »
Pewe, thats interesting. I've got the same coils and found that the connection of the HT leads to the coils felt quite good & it gave me the confidence that it won't give me problems. I've taken note of your post though for future reference. I'm quite happy with these coils. They seem to give a beefy spark.

I'm interested to hear your comparison with the dyna coils if you are able to tell a difference.

Offline hotdog

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Re: Fragile Ultimate coil failed, ended up in fried Pamco
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2014, 04:54:14 am »
Pamcos can easily fry if left powered up for extended time - performing non running diagnostics etc. Guys in the xs650 community have Learnt the hard way to switch off the key when not running the engine.
Regarding the coils... Vintagecb750 & cb750supply both look very similar to mikesxs, an xs650 parts supplier who has not got the best reputation for their coil quality.......the pamco is a great product for the $$$, if I was to get another ignition however it would probably be a power arc from cyclex.

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AJK

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Re: Fragile Ultimate coil failed, ended up in fried Pamco
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2014, 05:12:32 am »
Pamcos can easily fry if left powered up for extended time - performing non running diagnostics etc. Guys in the xs650 community have Learnt the hard way to switch off the key when not running the engine.
Regarding the coils... Vintagecb750 & cb750supply both look very similar to mikesxs, an xs650 parts supplier who has not got the best reputation for their coil quality.......the pamco is a great product for the $$$, if I was to get another ignition however it would probably be a power arc from cyclex.

Sent from my Agora HD+ using Tapatalk

Hotdog, you are right. With any non-intelligent ignition such as points, etc, you should only switch it to 'run' when your about to kick it over (or have the same discipline if you use the key). The pamco may be somewhat immune in a way because the 'set-up' magnet needs to pass the sensor before being 'latched' by the mosfet, in which case you will get current draw through the unit in this instance & also energise one of the the coils. This may happen if the engine is partially cranked, but if's just sitting and hasn't been triggered (say 180 deg crank rotation), then it shouldn't be energising the coils. I'd have to test this for sure but i'm pretty sure this theory should hold.
  The cycle-X may have some smarts in there to cater for this, like a safe mode if the motor is not being cranked, in which case you'd never have to worry about frying a coil.

[update] - So to be a bit clearer, if you have a pamco and havn't tried to crank it over yet, but you have both the key & ignition ON/RUN so its ready to start, then you shouldn't burn a coil out.
  However....  if you have begun to crank the motor and kept both the key and ignition ON/RUN and left it there not running, then one of your coils can potentially get saturated (burnt out) if the crank stops at a certain angle (specifically if the crank angle is such that the sensor is between both magnets).

Short of it all, keep the ignition OFF unless your ready to ride. If you do this, you should never burn a coil out.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2014, 05:29:27 am by AJK »

Offline PeWe

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Re: Fragile Ultimate coil failed, ended up in fried Pamco
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2014, 06:47:51 am »
I always switched it off. Direct with kill switch on handle bar when not running the engine.

The Pamco unit need to be repaired.  The complete card for 2-3  or find out which component that gave up.
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967