Topic: Brake hoses - Stock or stainless steel?

[keithg78]

i just got the 1975 CB550F Supersport on the road and want to replace the 40 year old original brake hoses.  I'm pretty sure i will be purchasing from Slingshot Cycles.  Should I stick with stock style rubber hoses or go with stainless steel braided hoses.  How much of an improvement over the stock rubber hoses are the stainless?  I look forward to hearing everyone's experience with this.  Thanks.

[Bailgang]

It's a personal preference I guess but I prefer the SS lines. I got one from sling shot as well for a 550 I had and it definitely firmed up the feel of brake handle but that's comparing it to the old lines. At some point I'll be replacing the lines on my 77 F2 with SS lines as well.

[Grinnin]

I have lines by Slingshot  the CB750 K5.

For my money, braided stainless and some form of EBC pads are the basic brake upgrade for any bike.  (Sintered pads or organic depending on the bike and rotors.)  I cannot say that they are right up there with monoblock Brembos, but they work better.

I usually keep my bikes looking mostly stock.  Braided stainless lines, though, are a common upgrade and not controversial.  I could go with black-tinted stainless lines, but I doubt I'd ever purchase stock rubber brake hoses for a bike.

I would certainly buy Slingshot lines again.  I have purchased others though, such as the ones from a dual-sport shop with other dual-sport pieces for my, um, dual- . . .

[ekpent]

I like these questions. Should I stick with a 40 year old rubber line or should I go better? You already know the answer but I will say that I still have bikes with the old original rubber that will probably put me in a ditch and kill me but I am not a cafe racer but an old timer. There are a host of products out there in the market that will make these older bikes a better and safer machine for sure. Its a question of where you are at, keeping an original and honest timepiece or going for a non stock but confidence inspiring street machine that may perform better. If it is not a stock resto get the good stuff         Gotta a picture >

[Dimitri13]

^I think he means should be buy new rubber or SS lines

[Terry in Australia]

I've got bikes with SS braided lines, and I've got bikes with rubber hoses, so I'm not biased one way or another, but no-one here should compare new braided lines with 40 year old rubber lines, that's comparing apples with oranges.

New rubber lines work fine, and are a huge improvement over 40 year old rubber lines. A problem with braided lines that I've found, is that they take a lot of the "feel" out of your brakes, and give them a very "wooden" feeling at the lever, so I purposely bought rubber hoses for my GL1000 front end conversion.

SS lines are also a biatch to bleed compared to rubber hoses, I presume (but don't know for sure) that most braided stainless hoses have a smaller ID than OEM rubber hoses. 

Either option is good, new braided lines or new rubber hoses, it just depends on your personal preference, there's really not that much difference between either. Cheers, Terry.

[PeWe]

I bought new SS lines to my CB750. Black to look OEM. Only CB nerds will see the difference.
It's 2 lines. From bar to the Pressure sensor (triple tree on fork), next all the way to caliper. The old metal pipe is not used.
Goodridge FRONT SS BRAKE Hoses HONDA CB750 K1-K6 76-77.

Will test it later today when it's logged on again in the vehicle register since a few hours. (OFF since sept 1990)

[eastyork1977]

Both my 550s have steel lines on them. One line on the brown 550 and two black lines using the pressure switch on the black 550. Both all the way down with a shorty M10 banjo at calliper.

I found bleeding to be easier with the steel lines. I had to tap the line to work out the air at the start but just did it by hand.
Second 550 I had a vacuum pump which is great for brand new lines that have never had oil in them prior to installation.

You can set you lever and line stiffness by creating less or more pressure during the bleeding.
Open the valve, squeeze the lever 80% down, close the valve, let go of the lever. Repeat as many times as it takes until feel and reaction of the brake is suitable. Once the air bubbles are out it only takes a few times to get good pressure.

Stainless steel all the way.

[fire113]

...as I bought my K1 the first thing was to do new SS brake lines and it was a difference like day and night!
I used a complete SS line set from the MC into the caliper without any rubber line.

[keithg78]

^I think he means should be buy new rubber or SS lines

Yes, that is exactly what I meant.  I'm not going to keep the original 40 year old brake lines.  I just wanted to know if SS is a huge improvement over rubber lines or just a marginal improvement. 

 Thanks for everyone's input. 

I don't have a good picture of the bike yet, but I will take one this week as soon as it comes back out of the garage.  I was having problems with a leaking front caliper (just fixed - new piston and seal), and now I am trying to pinpoint a front end wobble/vibration around 45mph.  The bike has new tubes and tires so I am going to pull the wheel and give it a re-balance.  My headset bearing seem to be OK but I may replace with tapered roller bearings as soon as I get the time. 

Thanks!

[PeWe]

My new SS lines update after test drive:
OEM was nicer SS-lines are very stiff, no flex when braking. The lever should be of different model to match the stiffer SS-lines. Much harder for my relatively small hand when the lever angle is wrong (too far away from grip) plus very stiff from the beginning which need really big and strong hands.

It would be better with a lever that is closer to the grip as the more modern bikes have. I'll hopefully find a better lever.

[dave500]

new rubber lines are fine for anything compared to the old 40 year old ones,grab one in your fist and squeeze the lever hard,youll feel it pulse and pump up,then try it with with new rubber ones,avoid cheap rubber type use oem or have some made by a hose place.

[PeWe]

I searched on the forum and found what I probably need: dog leg lever
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=75125.msg836982#msg836982

EDIT: Like these.   I hope I can find locally, constant purchase of parts 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-Chrome-Lever-Set-CB450-69-78-CB750-75-76-CB750F-75-77-GL1000-NEW-/301133758740

[Hon3ybadger]

Braided SS FTW, because I love myself..... and I can't afford health insurance.

[PeWe]

Braided SS FTW, because I love myself..... and I can't afford health insurance.

-No problem with very stiff brake? Lever is not designed for this stiff brake. My new braided feels horrible for my hand
I'll try to replace the lever with a dog leg lever.
If it still feels too stiff, I'll go back to OEM rubber lines (new).

EDIT: I have a very strong feeling that I'll order new brake lines OEM style to get the right feeling. SS lines are not good or safe when it's very hard to brake.

I might order very soon.
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Honda-CB-750-Four-K2-K6-Bremsschlauch-Bremsleitung-Set-/221290733630?pt=DE_Motorradteile&hash=item3385f4a03e

[Terry in Australia]

Braided SS FTW, because I love myself..... and I can't afford health insurance.

-No problem with very stiff brake? Lever is not designed for this stiff brake. My new braided feels horrible for my hand
I'll try to replace the lever with a dog leg lever.
If it still feels too stiff, I'll go back to OEM rubber lines (new).

EDIT: I have a very strong feeling that I'll order new brake lines OEM style to get the right feeling. SS lines are not good or safe when it's very hard to brake.

I might order very soon.
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Honda-CB-750-Four-K2-K6-Bremsschlauch-Bremsleitung-Set-/221290733630?pt=DE_Motorradteile&hash=item3385f4a03e

Yeah Pewe, like I said, if you're used to riding lots of bikes from the era fitted with rubber hoses braided lines give you a very "wooden" feel at the lever. They're OK with modern MC's designed for use with braided lines, but not magnificent with OEM masters. Cheers, Terry.

[grcamna2]

new rubber lines are fine for anything compared to the old 40 year old ones,grab one in your fist and squeeze the lever hard,youll feel it pulse and pump up,then try it with with new rubber ones,avoid cheap rubber type use oem or have some made by a hose place.

I agree w/ that;I've replaced old rubber to SS lines and did enjoy the responsiveness of the hard SS lines.The new rubber OE ones would be something I'd like to use to see if they restore the factory 'feel'/modulation of the original good  OE rubber ones.I think you have to have lot's of 'feel' in your hand/foot to variably control and modulate the stopping power progressively w/ SS lines and a Panic Stop could easily 'lock'em up' w/o even trying to,or quickly fade'em out and then you lose lots of braking power...either way it takes Lot's of use to get accustomed to SS.
I imagine the type of rubber that OEM uses must be  Good quality stuff to last this long and still not burst;they say in the manuals to replace them every 2 years so I know it's time for a new one  I'll have to try using new OE rubber lines sometime and 'get a feel' for'em to know how a new one will actually feel.I never had a new M/C before;I think it's more fun to restore an old one !

[bjbuchanan]

I posted briefly in another thread about this but it is something I have thought about for a while with my cb750. I have the SS lines and I personally feel that the MC should be sized different to use them most effectively. They give a wooden feel that doesn't have that fine modulation feel you get with a properly sized/engineered setup.

Don't get me wrong, I like the improved responsiveness but I definitely think a mm or two different sized MC would really show off the effect of the SS lines thru improved ability to modulate that brake lever. As is, I crank it in a panic whereas a modern bike it would essentially be a 2 finger stop. Rotors, pads and caliper design are not that much better, I feel the MC's are sized more appropriately to take advantage of the better equipment

[dave500]

I don't like modern bikes brakes theyre too good!

[eastyork1977]

I'll take actual braking power over how my brake levers feel any day.
If you're cruising around town then rubber should do.
Good luck with that on the highway tho.

[Terry in Australia]

I'll take actual braking power over how my brake levers feel any day.
If you're cruising around town then rubber should do.
Good luck with that on the highway tho.

I'm not sure that you understand the difference between lever "feel" and braking power mate? You don't lose much (if any) braking power with good quality rubber hoses, but if you lose the feel at the lever, it's easy to lock up your brakes without trying, which will likely throw you down the road.

I had an old BMW R100RS that I'd converted to take Brembo calipers, braided stainless lines and a GL1000 master cylinder. On my first ride I had to do an emergency stop, and due to the "wooden" feeling at the lever, I managed to do a "stoppie". (lifted up the back wheel) I was lucky it was a dry road.

This continued until I installed an early GSXR MC with a smaller dia piston, which allowed a much better feel at the lever. I could still lock up the front brakes at almost any speed if I wanted to, but with the improved feel, I didn't get caught out again. Cheers, Terry.

[PeWe]

Update: The brake feels a little bit better after some hard braking sessions exercising the caliper and pads that burned fine after a while. I need to open the caliper, clean and lubricate with copper paste.

Anyway, I'm convinced that new Honda OEM hoses is the choice for me. I start with the caliper when I remove front wheel due to fork job. My new fork seals leak more after one test ride than my 30 years old ever did. lets see if I mounted them upside down or if I bought crap. Honda OEM parts ordered.

This thread is good for people thinking about new brake lines. New steel braided must not be better. I never felt my old rubber lines too sloppy. Only when it was air inside.

One detail more that can make difference: My master cylinder is new. The low price version from David Silver, plus OEM looking cap.
Combination old sloppy Master cylinder with steel braided lines might feel different.

[Wobbly]

I had an old BMW R100RS that I'd converted to take Brembo calipers, braided stainless lines and a GL1000 master cylinder. On my first ride I had to do an emergency stop, and due to the "wooden" feeling at the lever, I managed to do a "stoppie". (lifted up the back wheel) I was lucky it was a dry road.

Good example the RS, for the debate here and the dual-disc discussion: From 1980 on forward, BMW installed Brembo brakes and replaced the floating calibers with fixed ones on the RS. I don't recall seeing RS riders laying around a lot on the street after these changes were introduced. 

[thelowmax]

I've got bikes with SS braided lines, and I've got bikes with rubber hoses, so I'm not biased one way or another, but no-one here should compare new braided lines with 40 year old rubber lines, that's comparing apples with oranges.

New rubber lines work fine, and are a huge improvement over 40 year old rubber lines. A problem with braided lines that I've found, is that they take a lot of the "feel" out of your brakes, and give them a very "wooden" feeling at the lever, so I purposely bought rubber hoses for my GL1000 front end conversion.

SS lines are also a biatch to bleed compared to rubber hoses, I presume (but don't know for sure) that most braided stainless hoses have a smaller ID than OEM rubber hoses. 

Either option is good, new braided lines or new rubber hoses, it just depends on your personal preference, there's really not that much difference between either. Cheers, Terry.

My thoughts exactly. This is one of those upgrades that is based mostly on preference and price.

[eastyork1977]

I'll take actual braking power over how my brake levers feel any day.
If you're cruising around town then rubber should do.
Good luck with that on the highway tho.

I'm not sure that you understand the difference between lever "feel" and braking power mate? You don't lose much (if any) braking power with good quality rubber hoses, but if you lose the feel at the lever, it's easy to lock up your brakes without trying, which will likely throw you down the road.

I had an old BMW R100RS that I'd converted to take Brembo calipers, braided stainless lines and a GL1000 master cylinder. On my first ride I had to do an emergency stop, and due to the "wooden" feeling at the lever, I managed to do a "stoppie". (lifted up the back wheel) I was lucky it was a dry road.

This continued until I installed an early GSXR MC with a smaller dia piston, which allowed a much better feel at the lever. I could still lock up the front brakes at almost any speed if I wanted to, but with the improved feel, I didn't get caught out again. Cheers, Terry.

Ya, I understand the difference between feel and stopping power thanks mate.
I don't think you understand the term "I'm not biased". But sounds as if you like playing with rubber things in your hand, and that's cool.