Topic: "Ghost" neutral

[Jimsun]

I sometimes get into the ghost neutral when upshifting from 2-3 or 3-4 or 4-5. Im not too sure if its because im not hitting it hard enough but 90% of the time i hit it the same way and itll shift up. Its the other 5% thatll itll somehow go to "neutral". Any idea why?

[flybox1]

No need to hit it hard.  Just be firm.
First try adjusting your shift lever counterclockwise one notch to allow for a better shift.

[TwoTired]

The shifter drum issues?
Most of the SOHC4's have a spring aided detent mechanism to hold the drum in certain positions.  Specific design differs among the SOHC4s. And I don't know which one you have.

Other possibilities, are that you are short stroking the gear lever, the engagement dogs are worn, shift fork wear, shift fork slider slot wear, shift drum wear.

[Jimsun]

No need to hit it hard.  Just be firm.
First try adjusting your shift lever counterclockwise one notch to allow for a better shift.

Thanks ill give that a try

The shifter drum issues?
Most of the SOHC4's have a spring aided detent mechanism to hold the drum in certain positions.  Specific design differs among the SOHC4s. And I don't know which one you have.

Other possibilities, are that you are short stroking the gear lever, the engagement dogs are worn, shift fork wear, shift fork slider slot wear, shift drum wear.

Thanks for the reply TT
 By the way its a 74 cb550. Any idea of what it could be now that you know its a 74 550?

[TwoTired]

Assuming you are not short shifting the lever with lazy foot...

The drum rotate pawl and/or the shift drum pawl engagement features could be worn.
The picture shows the gear selector resting on the flatted star tip.  This is the neutral rest position.  When in gear, the drum has rotated so the detent round bit rests in the valley between the star points.  A false neutral would have the detent positioned at one of the non-flatted star tips and not rolling into a valley.
This mechanism is behind the clutch, btw and can be examined without pulling the engine.

Assuming the detent and shift pawl parts are operating as designed, the next inspection area is inside the cases (engine pull), where you can inspect for play at the shift fork pins resting in the shift drum grooves.  And then, the shift fork width in relation the dog slider mating groove.

One thing easily checked is that the shifter arm itself is firmly tightened onto the shifter shaft splines.  Slop here can aid in short shifting, wich doesn't allow the gear selector detent to find its proper valley.

[Jimsun]

Assuming you are not short shifting the lever with lazy foot...

The drum rotate pawl and/or the shift drum pawl engagement features could be worn.
The picture shows the gear selector resting on the flatted star tip.  This is the neutral rest position.  When in gear, the drum has rotated so the detent round bit rests in the valley between the star points.  A false neutral would have the detent positioned at one of the non-flatted star tips and not rolling into a valley.
This mechanism is behind the clutch, btw and can be examined without pulling the engine.

Assuming the detent and shift pawl parts are operating as designed, the next inspection area is inside the cases (engine pull), where you can inspect for play at the shift fork pins resting in the shift drum grooves.  And then, the shift fork width in relation the dog slider mating groove.

One thing easily checked is that the shifter arm itself is firmly tightened onto the shifter shaft splines.  Slop here can aid in short shifting, wich doesn't allow the gear selector detent to find its proper valley.

Sry, what do you mean short shifting with lazy foot? The only time I experience the false neutral is when I would be riding very spiritedly. This means 7-9k rpm then quickly upshift. At this point, I will experience the false neutral on some occasion. However, if i were to cruise around, I would not experience the false neutral.

I suppose at this point it is a normal condition?

Im sorry that I forgot to mention this

[TwoTired]

Sry, what do you mean short shifting with lazy foot?

The shift lever has a full throw distance to make a shift into the next gear.
Short shifting is when, you don't move the shifter for the full throw, expecting it to find "home" after starting the shift.  The foot becomes lazy, expecting the machine to do the rest of the shift movement for you.  When new, they mostly would do that ok.  Wear and tear and bad shift habits lead some people to blame the machine for unexpected behavior.

Most of my 550s will find extra neutrals if the operator isn't forceful making shift demands.  It becomes less frequent with routine positive shifting and RPM has nothing to do with it except the when the operator short shifts during a speed up shift.

It might help if you stated the miles and maintenance history on the engine trans to separate wear factors from operator behavior.