Topic: 500/550/650's that followed me home

[rb550four]

 40 degrees  F today! the theater was not freezing and I had a set of gators waiting for a day like today to put on that 500 survivor  finally.  Today was the first time that I backed a bike on the table ,set it on the center stand, locked in the rear wheel ,strapped the rear down and stuffed building materials under the oil pan to keep the front wheel up while the forks are removed.
   Usually, at home, I just hang the bike off the rafters . Don't know which way is easier...just know that I was happy to be playing with Hondas today.

[Mark1976]

Hard to believe it's February, it was 45 degrees out when I arrived at work this afternoon. normally it's colder than a well diggers arse this time of year.

[rb550four]

Yeah man, I could get used to a February like this, but we'll probably be paying for it in March. Whatever , Live for the day,right?

[Mark1976]

Hey, look at it this way, it consistently snows in April now, go figure...

[rb550four]

  At least it's been warm every now and the so we could get last years projects completed.and maybe get some riding in THIS summer.
   As luck would have it ,I just got home from another operation this afternoon  that was much like last years operations . So riding will have to wait again this year for me as there are more operations coming my way.
   So I figured I could do some painting on the less pretty machines on my down time,try some new styles ..custom stuff, it'd be fun.
   These plans are looking farther away than ever now, last week my wife found out she has an aggressive type of breast cancer. This isn't anything that I can fix, not the right tools , no shop manual,  so it has to go to the local experts. Been to see a few experts so far , and bunches of tests. This summer is gonna be all about getting operations one at a time  with just enough space between them so's we the healthier one can care for the weakest that just came from surgery. It's all in the scheduling so far, but we are trying to be aggressive , and hopefully, get back to a normal life here in mid summer if that is possible. It would be so much easier if she came with HONDA stamped on her seat. Guess we'll see how it goes.

[rb550four]

 Okay, so I'm back on the superpube tube,repair surgery this coming Tuesday and hopefully back in the swing of things in a month or so,then I can take care of my wife. So during this idle time of doctor's office visits,surgery and bedrest, I've been thinking of what project I should do next and came up with a somewhat different idea than I've had at any time before.
   Ready? Warning to those with weak stomachs. Drum roll please. Change a four stroke 500four engine to a 2 stroke!
Ta Daaaa.
  Twice as much fire than the four strokes! More POWER! How much fun would that be on an 1/8 or quarter mile? Now this plan is just starting to come together in my head, and let me remind you that the hospital has pretty strong drugs and I've had some time on my hands
 I would like to start with removing the head, toss the camchain,cam, valves,and everything above the head gasket.  Machine exhaust ports just above the piston at the bottom of the stroke . What kind of piston is to be determined at a later date, but would like a high compression dome style and machine a large hemi head from one block of aluminum or some kind of alloy with room for a spark plug and compression release. I want the intake ports high in the head, but not too high so it'll fit in a 500 frame.May need to get stronger head bolts. I'm thinking that the cooling fins should look excessive since there will be more heat with more fire. The header system will also have to be custom made. and I would like to cap the old oil passages going up the the jugs and reroute oil pressure to the crank , wrist pins and cylinder walls from the bottom up to keep the bottom end cool and lubricated. This is all off the cuff right now but , I think I'm on a roll. I'm thinking that timing should be about the same on the stock setup  only have to make them fire twice as often ....Smaller points cam maybe or 4 sets of points or 2 sets of electronic ignition on the same plate or separate plates...again off the cuff. As for carbs, I'm liking the idea of 2 big snowmobile carbs, or 4 that I have on the shelf or stay with ...doesn't matter yet it's all in idea stage now.
   What do you all think? Has it been done yet? Should it be done? I want to do this . I would like the groups input about all aspects of this idea. I haven't talked about this with Mike and I know he's the man to talk to about machining stuff like this, so I'm looking to put together a plan that could make this a viable reality instead of something that explodes on the first kick ...and would like some of the unforseen bugs that haven't entered my mind to possibly be exposed by anyone who is interested so this could turn out to be a decent, worthwhile project...even if it sounds stupid
So what do you all think?

[seanbarney41]

maybe just swap in a cr500 motor?

[rb550four]

I have a 550 frame, 5 500 engines that need rebuild. Maybe the 500 trans isn't the best trans to work with but I don't have any beat 650 engines on the rack, that would be a better setup. Still in idea stage.
 Yes a cr500 would be great in a perfect world but it's not a 4, and I don't have a cr.  And I just can't help but wonder what a 2 stroke 4 would be like. Perhaps I should be on the lookout for a beat 650 engine and use that as a base. Hmmm.

[seanbarney41]

I don't know enough about 2 strokes to tell ya anything useful...seems like it would be incredible amount of work for  very poor result

...a guy over at caferacer.net put a Kawi triple in a Honda vf500f frame, a powerful 2 stroke engine known for its flimsy frame mounted in one of the best performing frames of the eighties, and it ended up 30-40 pounds lighter than either the stock Kaw or Honda.  quite a combination!

I can understand your lust for a poor man's Yamaha TZ750, 'cuz who doesn't want that. 

Honda did have a 2 stroke 4 cylinder, I think it was a v4? nsr something?  was never sold in america

[RAFster122s]

Hey RB I saw your post about your wife's cancer and am so sorry to hear about that. That's hard. Will keep you all in my prayers and thoughts for healing and comfort as it affects the whole family in many ways...  Hang in there and stay positive about the outcome will be in a good direction. That really makes a big difference in outcome as our mind and brain play a role in our healing. I hope the increased time you spend with your wife over the coming months draws you closer and your presence gives her strength. As it likely will.
Cancer Centers of America have given some people I know a better quality of life with their methods and approach. So, don't limit your options as not all cancer treatment doctors use similarethods.  I hope and pray they are able to successfully stop it's spread and growth and reverse the tide while giving her a good quality of life during the treatments.

[rb550four]

  Thank you David. I'm trying to keep her positive and in good spirits while we schedule appointments with all the players so there is at least a good plan of action...as far as we can tell. We are first timers, it's all new to us, we can only hope that we are going the right way with the information and the professionals we meet with. Trying hard to keep a positive attitude but all her relatives and friends calling with horror stories and things to watch out for , like we have any control, but I'm sure a good attitude is needed to get through it. That and distractions help so life isn't totally focused on this one bad thing all the time.
  I think that's what this 2 stroke idea might be all about for me. Funny thing, she doesn't understand one thing about engines except for what I tell her and she's actually taking an interest in this idea and has brought it up twice this morning. She isn't even interested in machines and acts like I should just do it for some reason.
  So I'm thinking that this is a thing to do. I have a friend, a machinist, that hot rods chainsaws for competition, think I'll pay him a visit and see what kind of engine plan we can put together or at least point me in some kind of direction.
  The strangest part of all of this 2 stroke plan is that I'm 62, don't need another machine, especially if it all works out so well that it would just scare the crap out of me to ride it, but today I feel that this is just something that I have to try.

[rb550four]

  I was reading a thread a while back involving a supercharger on a 550 and got to thinking wouldn't that pressure be nice to have on a lower intake side port to blow the exhaust gases out of the top of the  cylinder through the exhaust valve instead of waiting for another revolution for the piston to push it out. Intake valves could be removed and another cam could be ground to open the exhaust just long enough for the gases to escape with the the help of pressurized air from that supercharger and close that exhaust valve on the piston's way back up making ready for another compression stroke with fresh air. Of course this probably means some sort of fuel injection system that delivers fuel directly through the intake port at a moment when the hot gasses have left the cylinder just as the exhaust valve has closed. Wouldn't want to be blowing in an air/fuel mix while flushing the cylinder. This way the head,cam ,and exhaust valve can be used cutting down on a mess of machine work, may not even have to change the exhaust system to an expansion type ,not sure but wouldn't it be great to use some stock parts.
 I went with the supercharger idea not for extra power but for it's pressure and fresh air. Most 2 strokes get and store the pressure created from the piston on the down stroke, momentarily storing pressure in the crankcase until the piston is in position just before bottom dead center when the intake port is no longer being blocked by the piston, then allowing the crankcase pressure to escape through the intake port. I don't think I need anymore pressure in the bottom end as these engines aren't built or sealed for this,and even if it could be compartmentalized there is a pan of oil to deal with and pressure could not be contained .
   The ignition would have to fire twice as often, I'm thinking about an electronic ignition with 2 extra magnets in the cap over the spark advance. Haven't worked it out yet but it seems doable in my head.
   The fuel injection parts and it's timing is something that I don't know much about now but I'm hoping to learn something about how Honda has been doing it in recent years and figure out a retrofit for the 500... it may have been done here before but I haven't searched it yet. This is sounding more possible to me all the time.

[rb550four]

  I've been looking for a solution to this fuel injection thing all afternoon. Although there are threads regarding possible  type of  kawasaki  efi, so far I haven't found a completed project . Not that it would work on my configuration because of a possible/probable pre ignition issue that would exist while introducing the fuel air mix as the burned air is escaping through the cylinder via the exhaust valve. I had a plan on abandoning the intake valve ,so I'm thinking that an injector could replace that valve in it's position in the head. spark plug stays in the spark plug hole and the exhaust valve stays where it is only timed twice as often by the reground lobe for the exhaust valve.The intake lobe could be cut back to make clearance for the injector who's size is unknown at this point. The intake tappet will be removed so there should be room ,I  think at this point. Thus solving the probable pre ignition issue.
   New sealing method will have to be used around the tappet covers that should have a hole drilled through it to accept  injector and fuel line.
   Also been looking at the AMR500  and the AMR300, guess I can wait and see how the Big Bang chopper handles the 500 before making the choice between the 500 or the 300.
   The next problem to tackle will be the electric fuel pump ,fuel rail , timing for an injector pump of some sort,this and proper air/fuel mix is an issue for me tonight but it'll give me something to think about tomorrow.
    At this point I could throw in some 16 to 1 pistons and make a 2 stroke diesel out of it all. But  this isn't about torque,it's about hp and if I find enough information on the subject ,with a few spare engines,  I guess it could end up being about both I suppose.Anyone know anything about an outboard injector pump that might do the trick?

[rb550four]

  So, no takers on the outboard fuel injector pump question...I'm going to research some of these systems used on smaller diesel excavators (mini hoes) , bobcats and larger lawn tractors to see if anything can be made to be useful for a fuel delivery system  then start looking at 4 cylinder cars to see if anything could be made to work from that angle. Let the games begin.
   Also, I have had a few 550s come into my possession over the years with oil coolers. I never have put one back on an engine so I still have them on the shelf. I wonder if anyone has had any reviews about them? And  wondered if they are even worth putting on this engine to cool it down a little bit. It always seemed to me , and I may be wrong , that adding more oil line with that small radiator would cause extra strain on the oil pump and cause premature wear in to the oil pump or starve other areas that take a little more effort to lubricate ,like up in the valve train and cam ? Like I said, I could be wrong. I haven't seen many builds with an oil cooler on it and wondered if there is some sort of problem with them that would cause failure or premature wear to internal parts. Has anyone had any experience  with them?

[RAFster122s]

I think you need to post the idea and two stroke questions outside your thread... Start a new thread and copy and past it into other bikes section or a tech help section and title it possibly

CB500/4-stroke conversion to two stroke...anyone know  2-strokes?

You would pique more interest rather than having it buried in your thread. I know nothing about 2 strokes other than limited use of them in weedeaters and chain saws and other portable outdoor equipment. Doesn't scale up well I don't think...

[RAFster122s]

Hey RB! Hope things are going well for your wife's treatments and the outlook is hopeful. David

[rb550four]

 We have been seeing specialists about everything that could be done , that should be done when, how it will effect that if this happens , reconstructive options are a whole nother world of .... she has been tested  for everything, by everyone and waiting for results. They are all talking about getting "the team " together but can't figure out when. 
 Like this wouldn't be enough fun and games, my new urologist gets me to surgery early due to a cancellation and I took it. 2 tubes,one bag, 2 weeks and things should be healing and the swelling should be going down. last riding seasons surgery failed so I had to go for it. I only had a couple rides last year. Can't ride a bike for 6 months so another riding season just shot in the a$$.
  The good part is that I'm on the mend, just in time for her to do whatever needs done and I'll be there for her when it happens. That's the plan anyways.

[RAFster122s]

Heal up RB and #$%* and moan and complain here and rail against God and the universe if you need to... He has big shoulders and understands it. Let us know if you need anything within our power to provide. I will pray God meets you and your wife's needs and healing might occur within His plans.

Care if I drop your questions about the bike motor conversion over in a new thread for you?
See if some of the brain trust might be able to provide an educated guess from their 2 stroke knowledge?

[rb550four]

  Thank you David. We are in good shape mentally, we know none of us get out of this life alive, but we are convinced that we can beat this thing .Stiff upper lip and all that sort of rot .We're pushing forward with hopeful expectations.
  I did transfer the engine idea onto other bikes board. I believe I've gotten some sound advice about it and probably won't go forward with the idea at this time.
   Spring seems to be making it's way and I had planned (a while back ) to repaint some of the earlier bikes that didn't get  basecoat /clearcoat finish. This would be something productive I could do this season since riding is out and I'll be close to home.

[RAFster122s]

Fall treating you OK?

[rb550four]

  Hi David, Fall is came in hard and fast here in upstate NY. We are past peak and had some big winds that threatened the colors  that are still on the trees, but all and all it is still beautiful, in the 50's today and sunny. A perfect day for a ride but I put them up for he winter.
   I was hoping to catch up with some long overdue paint on some of the machines this past spring ,but life got in the way of those plans for spring .  And I was very lucky for decent drying weather a couple weeks ago and I managed to get a couple of tanks , side covers, fenders and stuff base coat/clear coated and had to get them installed at once since I hadn't been in the shop for a while. Felt really good to be caring for the herd again. I haven't been far from home, but I just couldn't get across the driveway to the workshop for some reason.
  I hope that Fall  has been treating you well and you have found that "thing" that makes this year better than one could hope for. . It's been a strange year for everyone for sure and some can handle being cooped up better than others, but this is the first year I have  taken real time to sit on the patio every morning with coffee and really smell the air, talk to the birds, watch the deer', and try to remember a little of the beauty from each morning, it makes the over all feeling of life a little calmer, with a feeling of being closer with nature....very pro biotic and earth shoesy ...otherwise I'd be a Fkin wreck.

[rb550four]

  Been pecking on a third tank , cleaned it out, got it sealed, made a couple little dents disappear and have it under primer. I painted it red many years ago and I want to change it up. Supposed to be mid 70's on Wednesday hoping to shoot some color then. I haven't planned for a color, as this tank was just one of the ones that I just wanted to seal and got carried away.  Choosing a color seems to be such a labor for some reason, it seems so easy to see  what color I don't like, and usually quite a different story to find a color that I really do like. Might like it fine one day and think it's crap the next. Fickle, I guess.
 It's a 500 tank and I was thinking I really need a goldie or a green one in the line up, maybe even a purple. Maybe a flying tigers theme or try out some airbrushing and go hippy style without the big flakes that would bring me halfways thru November. Don't have that kind of time right now. Maybe some of the above ,maybe all the above maybe stock  or a variation of  stock paint scheme using different colors and use up what's on the paint shelf . What to do? Hoping to choose wisely.
  It almost seems easier to just shoot any color  randomly and say " I hate  that color" until I have to paint it over.

[RAFster122s]

Big flake job and purple would be interesting. House of Kolor can hook you up with all kinds of sizes of flake.  Saw a car painted in corvette yellow and painter too very fine flake silver flake and put it in his clear and it was blindingly bright in the bright sun, you had yo have polarized sunglasses to look at it. It glowed. Was beautiful...

[rb550four]

  This is interesting, I may  have it wrong , but could you set me straight on the corvette yellow paint job?
 #1 The painter shot the corvette yellow straight base coat and then added small silver flake in the clear coat , then clear coats over top of  that? Is that right?       Or did 
  #2 The painter used large flake over straight corvette yellow, clear coated and sanded , then layed on a coat of clear with small silver flake mixed in on top of that , then shot clear coats over that ?
  No candy coats right? Not a metallic yellow corvette color that I may not know of right?
Any of these could be beautiful. #2 would be  allot of work...Good thing motorcycle parts are small. I'd be willing to try the correct potion next spring on the tank ,covers and headlight, if there is a next spring.
   I shot one of the 550 s with the color " cast iron " that I like to use on my lower cases and sprayed over the top of that with Flex, it's a clear finish with small multi tinted metallic flakes in it. Like a rainbow of colors in the sun looks great, but I think I should have shot 2 coats of clear over that to make it "Pop" in an almost wet/ smooth hard shell  sort of clear finish. That would sound more like #1 and it's easy , #2 would take some effort.
   Maybe two extra clear coats with a dry time and wet sand between the last two clear coats so "smooth as glass" could be guaranteed. Sounds like fun but sounds like spring. I'll set that tank aside til then and ask Frankenstuff for more sidecovers to go with it. Sounds like a plan.  Good idea David.

[RAFster122s]

#1, yes micro silver flake added to the clear to add the effect.  Wasn't shooting it luke a flake paint job but the flake suspended in the clear. The silver reflected the yellow most of the time adding a brighter effect as well as catching the sun sometimes. It was like the yellow was glowing and dazzling bright hurting your eyes to look at unless you had good sunglasses. Guys were shielding their eyes standing beside it chatting.
He must have had close to a dozen coats of clear with 4-5 with flake and then another half dozen as the paint job had a deep deep gloss to it only achieved with good paint and plenty of clear.