Author Topic: Two different exhausts on one bike HM300 and HM341?  (Read 4841 times)

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Offline cakey

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Two different exhausts on one bike HM300 and HM341?
« on: April 05, 2014, 10:39:23 PM »
I'm just dealing with some bad news. I unwrapped the HM300 pipes that I bought 6 months ago from a guy interstate and found out that two pipes are HM300 and pipes the other two are HM341's.

Not sure how this will work on the bike if it will mess the jetting or compression up but I lost the will to do any more work today after finding out. Teach me for trusting everyone.

At first I thought it was 1 and 3 for the HM341 and 2 and 4 were HM300 but then my wife went out to have a look and demonstrated to me in no uncertain terms her true depth of Honda knowledge that I had pipes 2 and 3 reversed.

So side 1 and 2 are HM341's and side 3 and 4 are HM300's. Will this adversely effect the bike in any way. I'm gutted.
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Offline dave500

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Re: Two different exhausts on one bike HM300 and HM341?
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2014, 11:24:03 PM »
bummer,bit late to complian now?itll be unbalanced to a degree with its breathing if you use the odd pipes per side.

Offline cakey

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Re: Two different exhausts on one bike HM300 and HM341?
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2014, 11:31:10 PM »
Yeh too late now. I wouldn't even be surprised if it was a genuine mistake. So much hard work and $ in the bike it's just going to eat away at me though. I wasn't expecting perfect pipes at all when I bought them but I did trust they were all the same.
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Offline dave500

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Re: Two different exhausts on one bike HM300 and HM341?
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2014, 11:37:13 PM »
try and buy the odd pair and sell the odd pair?not an easy task!can one or the other be gutted to be the same?honda man will know!

Offline PeWe

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Re: Two different exhausts on one bike HM300 and HM341?
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2014, 12:39:56 AM »
Possible to buy 2 of each and have 2 complete set? Separate pipes might be possible to find for less?
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Offline hotdog

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Re: Two different exhausts on one bike HM300 and HM341?
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2014, 12:56:43 AM »
Good looking bike - don't have any 300's laying around, sorry.
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Offline cakey

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Re: Two different exhausts on one bike HM300 and HM341?
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2014, 02:10:20 AM »
Thanks Hotdog
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Offline ekpent

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Re: Two different exhausts on one bike HM300 and HM341?
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2014, 04:51:36 AM »
The HM341 has more internal baffles or chambers than the HM300. That's why the HM300 actually has a real tube baffle pipe while the HM341 has just a short little diffuser cap. One of the reasons that K1 and earlier bikes ran a bigger main jet. The bike will probably still run but one of the big differences is the sound of the pipes. The HM300's have a nice growl where the HM341's have a whisper.
  Maybe you can find a trade out there with someone that needs the 341's.

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Two different exhausts on one bike HM300 and HM341?
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2014, 09:42:25 PM »
Ouch! Nasty deal, this one. I'd be sad.  :-\

The backpressure difference between them could be made up by baffling the HM300 pipes some more, though, if no other avenue raises its head.

Here's the "inside" story: look at the back side of the HM341 pipes, watching to see the little spot weld dimples that hold the internal baffles in place. Most of them have 5 of these, about 4-5" apart. There are some that have 3 instead, with another set (seemingly #4) of spotwelds near the rear, about 1.5" from the last real baffle: this is the little cage that holds the last (exit) black plug in place, and doesn't really count as a baffle. So, you should find 3, 4 or 5 baffles inside.

Each baffle has a 12mm hole in it. They act like a choke to their chamber, or a restriction of 12mm from the end of the header pipe to the end of the muffler. The last hole is a little larger and longer than the front ones. This last one is responsible for 2 things: it breaks up the throaty rumble of the last chamber and also forces the exhaust to hit both the upper and lower pipe's chambers so as to spread out their resonance and expansion: this actually causes a slight header effect at engine speeds above 6000 RPM through the little rubber hose connection between the pipes.

A simple approach might be: if your HM300 insert can be removed, you can then mimic the multiple 12mm restriction holes by using the baffle (or one of your own fabrication) by wrapping over the fiberglass batting by either sliding a steel sleeve over their whole length (snugly, please) or by wrapping it with some thin sheet metal, maybe like gutter/roof flashing material. In the length of the tube, you would have to insert as many 12mm washers as you have baffles in the other pipes. Install one right at the inner end of this baffle, another about 1/4 of the way out from that one, and split the difference for the remaining one (or two) to the outer end of the baffle, which is now a pass-through type. The chambers are going to be smaller than the HM341 chambers, so if there were, say, 5 baffles in the HM341, I would be tempted to use just 4 here, because the pressures will be higher overall. Thus the backpressure will be similar.

The only real drawback is: the efficiency of the new baffle will be lower than the HM341 versions. This will cause some power loss to the HM300 side at higher RPM. You might find that the 2 HM300 cylinder still run leaner than the other 2, though.

The opposite approach: you could 'loosen up' the HM341 pipes a little bit while also slightly increasing the HM300 restriction. This approach would bring a closer balance overall. To do this, remove the end plug on the HM341 pipes and drill 3 or 4 new 1/2" holes through the last baffle at the end. You'll need one of those real long drill bits or a bit extension to reach that far, it's about 5" down inside on the ones I have. Then reinstall the plug, and be sure to connect the little rubber hose between the pipes. Then, on the 2 HM300 pipes, plug the hose holes on each pipe, or put a plug into the rubber hose and reinstall it (either way works). I once made a metal disc from a knockout of an electrical outlet box after I installed some outlets in my house: trimming it down to fit inside the hose and then capturing it between the 2 pipes worked great. Then, pull out the HM300 baffles and study their outer end: if yours are the type that have just a 14mm hole out the final end of the baffle, you're all set. If instead it is the kind that had the center hole AND the open ring around that to let out more air around the baffle pipe, you'll have to close that part off.

This second approach will produce a nice (and unique!) combination sound of both the crackly fiberglass baffles and the throaty pop of the HM341, together. Yours will be a very distinct tone among 750s, which will stand out if you ride with others. At worst, the mainjet of the 2 cylinders with the HM300 pipes might need to me 2.5 to 5 larger than the other cylinders, but make sure all the carb needles are in the same slots. I would recommend using the 4th notch (that's the 4th clip groove from the top) and a #105 mainjet to start out. If the 3-4 plugs constantly show up whiter than the 1-2 plugs under your normal riding, then increase those 2 mainjets to 108 (the 107.5 size is usually marked as 108). Make sure the carb float levels are all the same: I'd recommend using 25mm instead of 26mm levels here, as the natural air pressures at higher engine speeds will tend to settle the bowls to a similar feed rate level (not the same as an actual level). If you have my book, look in the Carburetors chapter for the picture where I show the 2 vent tubes entering the airbox, where I drilled 2 1/4" holes to accept them. This will create a better bowl pressure regulator that corresponds to the actual engine speed, which is something done on later bikes by many manufacturers. It tends to help the fuel drain faster into the bowls by making the bowl pressures steadier and more equal left-to-right.
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Offline cakey

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Re: Two different exhausts on one bike HM300 and HM341?
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2014, 11:11:56 PM »
Wow very comprehensive write up Hondaman. To be honest I am going to take a while to digest it all. Really appreciate the technical aspect of what needs to happen. Thanks for your time.
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Two different exhausts on one bike HM300 and HM341?
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2014, 11:22:58 PM »
Contact the guy you bought them off, he may well have sold another mixed set to someone else or even still have some pipes, you'll never know if you don't ask....
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Offline cakey

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Re: Two different exhausts on one bike HM300 and HM341?
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2014, 12:15:00 AM »
Contact the guy you bought them off, he may well have sold another mixed set to someone else or even still have some pipes, you'll never know if you don't ask....

Yeh gave him a call and funny story it's just an honest mistake. He thought he was selling me a set of HM341's but I thought I was buying a set of HM300's. Neither of us was correct but would have been happy if one of us was. No spare sets laying around.

This will just eat at me inside until I find another pair. :'( :'(

Chance of that happening looks slim but you never know.
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Offline mick7504

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Re: Two different exhausts on one bike HM300 and HM341?
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2014, 01:05:36 AM »
I've got an old 4/1 that you can borrow Rob if that helps until you work out what to do.
It isn't the flashest looking cosmetically.
There'll definately be some spiders in it mate that'll need blowing out.

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Offline cakey

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Re: Two different exhausts on one bike HM300 and HM341?
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2014, 01:51:34 AM »
I've got an old 4/1 that you can borrow Rob if that helps until you work out what to do.
It isn't the flashest looking cosmetically.
There'll definately be some spiders in it mate that'll need blowing out.


Cant thank you enough Mick your a gentleman. I can wash the spiders out with my tears. But seriously I got a while to go before its ready for the first fire up and ride so if I have no luck before then in locating something I'll bring a carton out for you. All the best and thanks mate.
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Offline cakey

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Re: Two different exhausts on one bike HM300 and HM341?
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2014, 06:11:00 PM »
Just got back from a work trip to Singapore and am on the hunt for two left hand side HM300 pipes. I can see they are pretty thin on the ground but if anyone gets a sniff of any it would be heaps appreciated if you could sing out. Cheers
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Offline edwardmorris

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Re: Two different exhausts on one bike HM300 and HM341?
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2014, 08:04:43 PM »
I've had the unfortunate displeasure of a similar issue. I have 1, 3 and 4 HM341s and 2 is HM300. I was so new to the bike and these forums, I couldn't tell head from tail on these things. All four had rotted through, but I knew an exceptionally skilled welder who fixed them up. I went back to fixing everything else that is wrong with my bike the HM300 started rotting through in a different spot. It is then when I realized I have 3 pipes of one kind and this fourth odd ball. More on the fiasco here

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126914.0

Offline goldarrow

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Two different exhausts on one bike HM300 and HM341?
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2014, 08:55:53 PM »
If you're looking to part with your left side hm341, I'm interested.  I don't have spare hm300 to trade/sell though
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Offline cakey

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Re: Two different exhausts on one bike HM300 and HM341?
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2014, 12:56:34 AM »
Great news,

Yamiya just released the new stock of no number exhausts today and I got a set so I'm now back into this project. Happy days.

I read mixed reports of the no number pipes but for my situation I think it will be a good fit. Thanks for everyone's advice.
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1975 GL1000 Goldwing (restored)

Offline greenjeans

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Re: Two different exhausts on one bike HM300 and HM341?
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2014, 05:20:54 AM »
Great news,

Yamiya just released the new stock of no number exhausts today and I got a set so I'm now back into this project. Happy days.

I read mixed reports of the no number pipes but for my situation I think it will be a good fit. Thanks for everyone's advice.

That's great - that bike deserves some nice pipes like that.   Always loved the gold.  Beautiful.
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Offline cakey

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Re: Two different exhausts on one bike HM300 and HM341?
« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2014, 12:10:00 AM »
Great news,

Yamiya just released the new stock of no number exhausts today and I got a set so I'm now back into this project. Happy days.

I read mixed reports of the no number pipes but for my situation I think it will be a good fit. Thanks for everyone's advice.
I got a set of the no number jobs last Feb. My first time dealing with customs tax etc, a bit time consuming. After shipping and tax I got fleeced $2600. They went on easy, I had 4/2s before and lost a bit of torque with the 4/4s.

Well I could be in for a bit if a rude shock then Nic. I just payed $1900 delivered to my door (I thought) I didn't know there was customs and more taxes involved?
1971 CB750 K1 (restored)
1975 GL1000 Goldwing (restored)