Author Topic: Cb400f backfiring, not starting NEW HELP needed :)  (Read 2907 times)

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Offline stay youth

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Cb400f backfiring, not starting NEW HELP needed :)
« on: April 05, 2014, 04:50:49 PM »
Hello, looking for some help as I'm not getting anywhere with my bike. 1976 CB400f backfiring when i try to start it. Back story bike has been sitting for a few weeks but was running nicely albeit a bit rich and I also had weeping around head gaskets. Pulled plugs today, very black sooty fouled plugs. Dropped in new d8ea's and still no starting and loud singular pop backfire. I pulled my carbs and went through them thoroughly, jets were light clogged but nothing overly major. Cleaned everything and reassembled. Still backfiring. I am running MC-Again specifically designed air pods with 95 mains. Been running this setup for about 4 years with little issue (took forever to find right mains, and looks like i may still need to test more) Running electric ignition and had cylinder heads planed a few years back. Battery charged. Fresh clean gas with inline filter. Cam chain adjusted.

I'm starting to think the weeping at the cylinders head could have something to do with it. A few weeks back I noticed dry sooty buildup around the front top cylinder, but last time I rode it  ( few months back and ran great and pulled nicely through the gears)

Really Any thoughts or suggestions are great appreciated. My electrical skills are not impressive I should note. Seems like timing may be off?  Valve Adjustment? Vacuum test?

Thanks!!!
« Last Edit: May 25, 2014, 06:34:18 PM by stay youth »
1976 cb400f

Offline LesterPiglet

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Re: Cb400f backfiring, not starting
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2014, 05:34:10 PM »
You have put the HT leads back on the correct way?
'Then' and 'than' are completely different words and have completely different meanings. Same with 'of' and 'have'. Set and sit. There, their and they're. Draw and drawer. Could care less/couldn't care less. Bought/brought FFS.


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Offline stay youth

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Re: Cb400f backfiring, not starting
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2014, 06:44:04 PM »
I think so 1 and 3 on one coil 2 and 4 on the other?

Thanks!
1976 cb400f

Offline MoMo

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Re: Cb400f backfiring, not starting
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2014, 06:48:22 PM »
Coil with the yellow wire should feed 1 and 4, coil with blue wire should feed 2 and 3....Larry

Offline stay youth

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Re: Cb400f backfiring, not starting
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2014, 07:20:48 PM »
Oh man am I just an idiot and just plugged them in the wrong order?
1976 cb400f

Offline Bodi

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Re: Cb400f backfiring, not starting
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2014, 09:29:46 PM »
With coil wires reversed you have spark around bdc on intake (intake valve almost closed) and powerstoke (exhaust valve just opening) - it can "backfire" either through the exhaust or carb.
I suspect we've all done this if we've dismantled a few engines. Not a big deal, like anything else we learn best from mistakes.
If that's not it, backfiring can be from poorly sealing valves - burnt or misadjusted. Or really badly set ignition timing.
I have given up on ever getting a seep-free 400F head-barrels joint. It's just a bad design IMO. There's so little space between the orifice valve and the outer edge. After multiple gasket replacements, head and barrel planing, different gasket sealants, different orifice valve seals... I just accept it will leak, and jam a wad of paper towel between the fins to soak it up and replace the wad when saturated. One can find paper towels or restaurant napkins just about anywhere.
An external oil line system with the orifice holes blocked would be nice... but the head mods are outside the limits of my skills and schedule.
Jetting the 400 for pods, MC-Again's or anyone else's, is a major pain. It can be done well (others will insist it's not possible) but you have to be systematic and have a lot of time to devote to the process.  To me, 95 mains sounds too big for a stock engine regardless of pods or exhaust. The biggest I've used is 92, as I recall - with a 466 kit, pods, hot street cam, and headers.
Set up your valve lash and ignition timing, then do a full throttle plug chop. With the right mains (tan plugs at full zot) and the idle screw optimized... the midrange will probably stink - surging and hesitating regardelss of needle clip position. Since changing the slide cutout size is not really an option, you have to modify the needle profile to get the engine tractable and responsive at all RPM/throttle combinations (within reason - it will always die if you crank full throttle at idle).
Admittedly even with really good carb setups the engine will act weird with pods (missing, surging) in some rareish conditions of bike speed and sidewinds. Sucking air from the bizarro turbulent flow area behind the heads is not ideal. But I still love pods for the sound and look. Plus I keep spare plugs etc in the otherwise empty airbox.

Offline stay youth

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Re: Cb400f backfiring, not starting
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2014, 08:45:14 AM »
My coil with yellow wire cannot connect to 1 and 4, leads arent long enough to reach over. Coil with blue wire will reach 2 and 3 with a lot of slack in the leads. Very confusing.
1976 cb400f

Offline Tim2005

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Re: Cb400f backfiring, not starting
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2014, 10:20:59 AM »
Will the yellow coil's wires reach 2 & 3, and the blue coil's one reach 1 & 4 ? If so you can just swap the coils around. 

Offline wjustinleigh

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Re: Cb400f backfiring, not starting
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2014, 10:38:30 AM »
I just did this when replacing the coils.  Plugs dripping wet after trying to start for a while.  Never a hint of trying to start and every once in a while it would send out a hugh backfire.  Swapped the wires, new plugs, fired right up.  I hid my shame from the world until this very minute. 

If the wires don't reach couldn't you switch the connectors coming off the points/electronic ignition?  Some poor future owner will be confused but I think that would make it all line up.
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Offline stay youth

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Re: Cb400f backfiring, not starting
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2014, 05:42:39 PM »
Gonna try and give this a shot maybe later tonight or next week. I feel like an idiot since I had the bike running fine just a few months back. I had this bikes electrical work done by Charlie at Charlies place awhile back, so i trust him and guess its probably something im doing wrong will check again.
1976 cb400f

Offline LesterPiglet

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Re: Cb400f backfiring, not starting
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2014, 09:42:45 AM »
Instead of farting about with blue and yellow wires just move the 2/3 HT leads to 1/4 and vice versa.
'Then' and 'than' are completely different words and have completely different meanings. Same with 'of' and 'have'. Set and sit. There, their and they're. Draw and drawer. Could care less/couldn't care less. Bought/brought FFS.


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Offline stay youth

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Re: Cb400f backfiring, not starting
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2014, 02:50:05 PM »
It worked! thanks so much blue wires to 1 and 4, yellow to 2 and 3. Purrrs again, also dropped down to 85 mains hopefully that will lean it out a bit.

thanks again!
1976 cb400f

Offline stay youth

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Re: Cb400f backfiring, not starting
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2014, 04:30:03 PM »
ACCCKKKK! ok got the bike running. Yellow still feeding 2 and 3 and blue feeding 1 and 4. I kow you guys are saying this wrong, but I have never adjusted these or chagnged them and the back was running fine. Well kinda fine, today started the bike up and let it idle for awhile. Then i hoped on and rode about two blocks and power died. Fuse was blown. I find it strange that it ran fine with curretn setup  for years and now its giving me problems. If i try to swap yellow and blue wires, blue wont reach. Gonna try to just swap coils over like lesterpiglet said. Still seems bizarre, then again this machine always seems like a bit of a mystery. Any thoughts on why this might be?

Thanks!
1976 cb400f

Offline stay youth

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Re: Cb400f backfiring, not starting NEW HELP NEEDED :)
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2014, 06:33:34 PM »
Ok keep so was able to make blue wire to hit the right side coil and the yellow on the left side coil. Rides for a bit then blows fuse. Really frustrating. If I switch the wires from from the left coil to the right, it just backfires.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

thanks
1976 cb400f

Offline Bodi

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Re: Cb400f backfiring, not starting NEW HELP needed :)
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2014, 08:59:14 PM »
Well. Definitely 1&4 and 2&3 should be the coil's plug connections. It's rather easy to reverse the blue and yellow wires at the points or even put the  points cam on 180 degrees out, so the color code isn't very reliable.
Look at your points: the 1-4 points set should open pretty close to TDC on 1-4: fairly easy to see as you can look into the plug holes and see the piston tops. Just make sure the wire to the point set opening then goes to the 1-4 coil.
The coil wiring did not blow your fuse. I have had one incident where the main fuse just blew: I pushed the bike to a shady spot and looked everywhere for the problem, nothing I could find. Replaced the fuse and it hasn't happened since.

Offline stay youth

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Re: Cb400f backfiring, not starting NEW HELP needed :)
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2014, 12:21:56 PM »
 Thanks so much for the quick reply. Your saying something else is shorting out ?  Very frustrating I can't find the source of the short. Seems to short out when I open the throttle beyond revving. Keep blowing thru multiple fuses and everything looks properly connected.

Thanks !
1976 cb400f

Offline stay youth

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Re: Cb400f backfiring, not starting NEW HELP needed :)
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2014, 12:24:29 PM »
I should mention I'm running dyna electronic igntion
1976 cb400f

Offline calj737

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Re: Cb400f backfiring, not starting NEW HELP needed :)
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2014, 06:51:03 PM »
What fuse are you blowing? The one inline to the Dyna or the engine fuse panel?
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Offline stay youth

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Re: Cb400f backfiring, not starting NEW HELP needed :)
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2014, 08:37:23 PM »
At the fuse panel, I dont see another fuse? Maybe this is my culprit

thanks!
1976 cb400f

Offline calj737

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Re: Cb400f backfiring, not starting NEW HELP needed :)
« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2014, 05:25:22 AM »
The Dyna should have an inline fuse from its plate, before the coils. Between the plate your 12v power should be tapped in, then the fuse, then power leads (red wires or blk/wht) to coils. Don't know if this is your issue, but it is an issue if it's not there.
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Offline stay youth

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Re: Cb400f backfiring, not starting NEW HELP needed :)
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2014, 11:03:41 AM »
Thanks calj737, will check this out tonight, it must be there and i'm just not seeing it. My fuses is blowing at the electrical panel and am still struggling to figure out why.

Thanks!
1976 cb400f