Author Topic: gun massacre  (Read 29407 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Terry in Australia

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 33,405
  • So, what do ya wanna talk about today?
Re: gun massacre
« Reply #75 on: May 30, 2014, 05:04:07 AM »
Thats why we have 2 million (no bullschidt) public servants in a country of 23 million Dave, 2 fcuking million! It's no wonder we're fcuking broke.............. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline demon78

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,816
  • After work to the "Wets"
Re: gun massacre
« Reply #76 on: May 30, 2014, 05:11:02 AM »
I think that it is a problem of entitlement, something that has come to the fore and more so in recent years, the feeling of me, me, I'm number 1, me, me, me, ( I suspect that the rise of Walmart is part of the phenomenon ) if the Jones have that why can't I, me, me, me  and I also know that the ease of which instruments of power are available means that there is a lot of death. I think if all the guns were pulled and Bowie Knives were issued instead the death rate would plummet, the villians would react differently if they had to get their hands bloody rather than point their magic wand at their problem, as far as the NRA goes yes I remember a time when they were apolitical. In case new comers think that I'm anti gun, no, before I got old I could hit a pie plate at hundred yards with a variety of weapons from, .22-8mm, bolt to semi auto, iron sights to scope on a bad day 4 out of 5 times, I also lived in California just out side of LA for a couple of years. So entitlement and availability of guns are at least part of the problem. I see the  American Dream exported to my country and it sounds like OZ as well and I'm not against the states I just don't want have the same problems in the future which is why the wall comments.
Bill the demon.
 

Offline ekpent

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,508
  • To many bikes-but lookin' for more
Re: gun massacre
« Reply #77 on: May 30, 2014, 05:13:18 AM »
who owns the deer?does the govt?ive hit I don't know how many roos in proper heavy trucks with proper bull bars that are designed to deflect what they hit downward and underneath and you hope an airhose doesent get ripped out,the govt here was thinking about banning bull bars because they kill people,then there was what angles they could be projected at etc?inventing jobs for themselves discussing it?
In Michigan an officer will grant you a free permit and you can keep the deer if you want.

Offline Terry in Australia

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 33,405
  • So, what do ya wanna talk about today?
Re: gun massacre
« Reply #78 on: May 30, 2014, 05:15:28 AM »
I want a wall put up to keep out those sheep fcuking New Zealanders Bill, there's more fcuking Kiwi's in Oz than there are fcuking Roo's! ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline Terry in Australia

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 33,405
  • So, what do ya wanna talk about today?
Re: gun massacre
« Reply #79 on: May 30, 2014, 05:19:45 AM »
Yeah mate, I've hit several Kiwi's in my work truck over the last few weeks, but to be fair, I had to drive through 3 fences to get them......... ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline dave500

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 17,070
  • WHAT?no gravy?
Re: gun massacre
« Reply #80 on: May 30, 2014, 05:20:51 AM »
theyre a traffic hazard alright!they are too busy saying "BRO"to each other as they cross the road to take notice of the traffic!

Offline Terry in Australia

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 33,405
  • So, what do ya wanna talk about today?
Re: gun massacre
« Reply #81 on: May 30, 2014, 05:24:08 AM »
And they're taking all the good looking sheep! ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline dave500

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 17,070
  • WHAT?no gravy?
Re: gun massacre
« Reply #82 on: May 30, 2014, 05:42:01 AM »
on a tangent the bull bar is designed to throw what it hits down on to the road before its run over,you don't slow down or brace yourself when you hit roos or cows in a heavy truck with a bull bar,you just yawn and hope any air hoses don't get ripped out,they make a noise like "boong  boong"steel bars are the best,alloy ones bend after a few hits,sharp dagger like spikes are illegal on the underside to shred these days,we hate roos,they aint all like you mighve seen on tv like skippy the nice #$%*?

they'll #$%*ing chase you down and rip you up!and we still don't need guns?much.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2014, 05:44:46 AM by dave500 »

Offline Terry in Australia

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 33,405
  • So, what do ya wanna talk about today?
Re: gun massacre
« Reply #83 on: May 30, 2014, 05:44:28 AM »
Probably not a problem in a big truck mate, I hit two in a Mack tipper in 1995 on a drive from Melbourne to Gove in the Northern Territory and they both went underneath, but in my little Toyota truck I had one hit the windscreen after it was flipped over the bullbar, but luckily it didn't come into the cab.

I had one go over the bonnet (hood) and roof of my old XR Falcon back in the 1980's. I had my H&R .22 Magnum in the boot, so I got out to put the Roo down, but he just hopped away, apparently unharmed? Poofter! I didn't even get a chance to shoot him ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline dave500

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 17,070
  • WHAT?no gravy?
Re: gun massacre
« Reply #84 on: May 30, 2014, 05:45:41 AM »
they'll total any car!

Offline JeffSTL

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 392
  • CB750 K6
Re: gun massacre
« Reply #85 on: May 30, 2014, 05:47:19 AM »
Amen!!!!! ^^^^^* Our jobless rates would be astronomical if our Government hadn't expanded itself to create more useless, overpaid, worthless check grabbers that seem only capable of costing us tax dollars and returning nothing resembling an actual service, back to those from whom they take.

Want to see someone go off on a rant? Let's start a thread about government employees or elected officials. Then I bet we'd find consensus...

Actually, jobless rates would be much lower right now if not for cuts that have been made in government spending because of the "fiscal cliff" deal. Government employees are among the hardest hit during this "recovery" period. Three of my good friends are "worthless check grabbing" government employees. An audio engineer for the justice dept. in the federal courts, a librarian for the federal reserve, and a post office employee. All of whom have masters degrees, are brilliant and good people, work very hard at their positions, and would take offense to your characterization. By the way, they have all been working under pay freezes for several years now. It must feel good to be so self important.

Offline dave500

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 17,070
  • WHAT?no gravy?
Re: gun massacre
« Reply #86 on: May 30, 2014, 05:55:00 AM »
both,give a kiwi a half decent car and he'll ruin it in six months.

Offline nightpoison

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 36
this may be a mistake, but hey I'll try
« Reply #87 on: May 30, 2014, 06:00:33 AM »
Hello everyone, wow this thread has really gotten a lot of discussion going. Like another member said it’s good to talk about, even with differing sides. I would like to throw some things out there.

1)   Forbes recently did an article about gun crime. The article talked about the dramatic increase in gun sales over the past two decades and how gun crime has actually one down at a similar rate. They used the FBI database for their sources. A government source, In fact almost every year for the past two decades we have seen gun crime going down, based only on the FBI Gun Crime stats.  I believe over the past 20 years that homicides are down 39% and other gun crimes are down by 69%, when compared to population increase.  Remember to be fair you need to look at it in a per 100,000 population study.

2)   On the flip side, gun crime rose more dramatically when we started to regulate firearms. For most of the 50’s and early 60’s crime was static. (it’s a grey area in regards to these statistics as they didn’t have great records for 50’s, 60’s were much better and more accurate) Didn’t have any growth in crime, yet our population continued to grow. In 1968 we had some fairly significant gun control introduced and crime started to increase.

3)   Let’s jump back to modern day. If you look at our crime statistics, specifically crime in the states, let’s narrow it down to major cities with significant gun control. Most of the crime statistics for the country can be narrowed down to these cities. Washington DC, Chicago, Detroit, and Oakland California to name a few. These cities have the countries strongest gun control; however they make a majority of the crime and gun crime in this country. Recently gun bans in Chicago and DC have been lifted by the court systems. Since those bans have been lifted Crime has been reduced by 15 percent in Chicago, and 34 percent in DC. That’s just in the first 6 months since the bans were lifted and law abiding citizens are now allowed to protect themselves.

4)   I’m going to ignore the fact that our constitution states we have a right to own firearms, not a privilege. This right is for self-defense and to make sure government doesn’t get out of control. I’m going to ignore it because that’s a whole nothing can of worms. What I will say is this, it has been ruled in about 8 different court cases, mainly supreme court, that “You, and only you, are responsible for your security and the security of your family and loved ones.” The police have no legal duty to protect you, even if you have received death threats. So the right to self-defense is important and for some a gun is the way to go

5)   For instance it’s reported every year that over 100,000 women use a gun to protect themselves from rape. And it was only 5% that they actually used the gun. Here’s a good one for you. 2% of shootings that are done by a law abiding citizen were in error, at someone that wasn’t a criminal. Yet the police have an error rate of 11%.

Ok I have tons more data, numbers mostly taking from the FBI crime statistics database and other GOVERNMENT sources. What’s strange is the main stream media don’t talk about these numbers or the lives that are saved because of firearms.

I’m not taking away from the senseless acts that occur. I’m not saying that we should have all gun laws torn up. I believe in some regulation, however, I don’t believe in politicians creating laws to give the appearance of being tough on crime that hurt the law abiding citizens. Recently we had a politician in California who is now being charged with weapons trafficking. We need to enforce our current laws. In Massachusetts only 10% of gun crimes are taking to court where mandatory minimum sentences would be used. Plea bargains the other 90% with less than a year of jail time at most. By the way all of which did not involve legal gun owners.

Offline dave500

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 17,070
  • WHAT?no gravy?
Re: gun massacre
« Reply #88 on: May 30, 2014, 06:07:47 AM »
it was always hard to get a hand gun permit here in Australia even before we had semi auto rifles and more than 5 round mags banned,you have to jump through hoops here to buy air rifle pellets!after the port Arthur killings here and the laws went tight bumper stickers soon came out "when guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns",and I think its ringing true now?google up all the Sydney shootings of late?mostly just drug thugs whose sir names wont be smith or jones fighting over territory?
« Last Edit: May 30, 2014, 06:11:58 AM by dave500 »

Offline JeffSTL

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 392
  • CB750 K6
Re: gun massacre
« Reply #89 on: May 30, 2014, 06:13:46 AM »
How about all of you pro-gun people offer some suggestions to help curb these violent actions.

Online grcamna2

  • Not a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,311
  • I love to restore & travel. Keep'em Going Strong !
Re: gun massacre
« Reply #90 on: May 30, 2014, 06:16:56 AM »
Another one where there were plenty of red flags if their family would quit living in denial and take some action beforehand.  ::)

+1  ;)
 Folks really need someone they respect to just sit down with'em on a regular basis... just spend time,care and listen; the alternative is to leave the steam kettle to blow up because it had a clogged vent and nobody knew it  ::)
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline demon78

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,816
  • After work to the "Wets"
Re: gun massacre
« Reply #91 on: May 30, 2014, 06:29:49 AM »
My point is that it doesn't make any difference why it's happening, it is happening and that is the problem, because of recent history as far as the me generation and guns go it's the unreality of the magic wand that makes the problem go away.
Terry it's a bugger that they are taking all the good looking ones, think of it as a blessing at least no ticks or critters.
Bill the demon.

Offline dave500

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 17,070
  • WHAT?no gravy?
Re: gun massacre
« Reply #92 on: May 30, 2014, 06:46:15 AM »
I think its the "ME" generation that does these school massacres?youll always have murders thats part of life and always has been and always will be full stop,i like guns,havent owned one since the mid 80s and I had some nice units,a 1919 enfield 303,an anshutz .22 semi auto,a Mossberg 12 guage pump for a little while,we all had .22s,the ruger rotary mag semi auto was popular,we had punch ups and never was a rifle bought out,i think its a hand gun thing?the hand guns were always hard to obtain here but I bought my first .22 semi auto rifle at kmart(40 dollar stirling crap) and two boxes of bullets showing a paper license,and never ever was there any intent or hint or suggestion from my mates to use it in anger,had it been a hand gun?i think that's the difference?
« Last Edit: May 30, 2014, 06:49:29 AM by dave500 »

Offline mick7504

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,740
Re: gun massacre
« Reply #93 on: May 30, 2014, 06:48:13 AM »
I'm thinking that maybe a blanket ban on Hand Guns and Semi Autos (incl Pump Action)
To have a Firearms license here in Oz for a Lever or Bolt Action Long Arm requires a high degree of scrutineering by the Firearms section of the Police Force.
Anyone that's got a Domestic Violence or an assault issue against their name can forget about it.

Hand Gun ownership carries very strict regulatory and compulsory
requirements.
If I was you
I'd be worried about me.

Offline Roach Carver

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,724
Re: gun massacre
« Reply #94 on: May 30, 2014, 06:49:59 AM »
How about all of you pro-gun people offer some suggestions to help curb these violent actions.
oh, well I would say maybe start trying to treat the problem since all of the gun control laws so far are apparently failing. Makes perfect sense. The stringent laws that are in place have had little to no effect so let's just make more restrictions that will be ineffective. Let's call it a war on guns because we all know how effective the war on drugs is.

Online grcamna2

  • Not a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,311
  • I love to restore & travel. Keep'em Going Strong !
Re: gun massacre
« Reply #95 on: May 30, 2014, 06:55:25 AM »
How about all of you pro-gun people offer some suggestions to help curb these violent actions.
oh, well I would say maybe start trying to treat the problem since all of the gun control laws so far are apparently failing. Makes perfect sense. The stringent laws that are in place have had little to no effect so let's just make more restrictions that will be ineffective. Let's call it a war on guns because we all know how effective the war on drugs is.

it's no 'quick fix' that's for sure...
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline Roach Carver

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,724
Re: gun massacre
« Reply #96 on: May 30, 2014, 06:58:40 AM »
Oh , I failed to answer the question. I imagine it's severe mental instability, wide spread use of prescribed mood altering drugs and just piss poor attention to people with obvious mental problems. I have never made any plans to shoot anyone. I have always been able to work out my differences with words or on a rare occasion my hands.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2014, 07:36:10 AM by roach carver »

Offline Duke McDukiedook

  • Space Force 6 Star General
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,688
  • Wish? Did somebody say wish?
Re: gun massacre
« Reply #97 on: May 30, 2014, 07:01:02 AM »
I think this quote from a recent movie sums up my view on 'Murica quite succinctly.

“This guy wants to tell me we're living in a community? Don't make me laugh. I'm living in America, and in America you're on your own. America's not a country. It's just a business."

Actually, America is a corporation, and business is not good. Make of that what you will.

"Well, Mr. Carpetbagger. We got somethin' in this territory called the Missouri boat ride."   Josey Wales

"It's Baltimore, gentlemen. The gods will not save you." Ervin Burrell

CB750 K3 crat | (2) 1986 VFR750F

Offline JeffSTL

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 392
  • CB750 K6
Re: gun massacre
« Reply #98 on: May 30, 2014, 07:01:16 AM »
How about all of you pro-gun people offer some suggestions to help curb these violent actions.

I'd start with much stronger and much more sever penalties at the Federal level. I would also make it legal but not mandatory, for any teacher to arm the self AFTER proper training while on school grounds. These are punitive and preventive measures, but not cures.

In the home front of "cures" the only path I see is riddled with a very slippery slope, and that is Mental Health incarceration. I'll remind you of the Virginia Tech campus shooting in 2007. That individual had been previously under a 72 hour mental health hold. The doctors determined that he was able to self-medicate and this, presented no danger to society. As long as he self-medicated.

Now here's the tricky bit: at what point are we willing to abandon our civil liberties of Due Process and Presumption of Innocence in light of the potential saving of 10, 20 or 30,000 lives? Yes, it seems extraordinarily callous to say that, but in a country of 320,000,000, it's a rounding error of the population.

Had the State of VA incarcerated that shooter, you can bet your bottom dollar that the ACLU would have immediately filed suit against unlawful detention. Their best intentions notwithstanding, their result (similar to the ravings of the now hyper-political NRA) is to enable criminals not punish them. We worry more about criminal's right to fair and impartial trials than we concern ourselves with the victims.

You want less ongoing violence, step up the Penal system to the levels of Saudi Arabia, China, Korea, etc... Our prisons have long abandoned rehabilitation and become jungles filled with ultra-violent animals. At the cost and expense to the public safety. I concede that the none of the recent school shootings was perpetrated by an ex-con, but a huge portion of the violence that does occur, which in turn spurs the need (real or imagined) for self-protection. I have to think that this type of mentality is part of Oz's success.

Maybe Dave, Terry or Retro will chime in with comparisons on their penal system and it's effectiveness. But ours is broken, worthless, and in desperate need of overhauling.

I'm tired of hearing politicians proclaim their willingness to infringe on our Constitutional Rights under the guise of "saving just 1 child's life" when they are completely unwilling to do what's necessary to deal with the criminals already in the system. Start culling the herd, with extreme measures and dispatch. I think then you'll see a sudden switch in the level and frequency of street crime. Less street crime=less gun violence.

And add to that a media blackout on profiling and turning into a social celebrity these whackjob shooters. Don't even mention their names. Just like the pinhead who lit off a bomb in the Boston Marathon. Screw him. Strap him down and put a bullet or needle in him. Viking funeral and cast his ashes over a landfill.

Might just work-

Thanks calj737.
I agree we should have much stiffer penalties for those who commit crimes with guns and agree, for the most part, with your intentions and concerns...except for the arming of teachers. The only problem is none of this addresses the underlying causes of these problems. While I think that stiffer penalties and some sensible gun regulations (that have nothing to to with taking away your guns) can help a little in the short term, until we deal with the systemic and societal issues that bring people to violence the results will be marginal.

Offline JeffSTL

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 392
  • CB750 K6
Re: gun massacre
« Reply #99 on: May 30, 2014, 07:04:36 AM »
I think this quote from a recent movie sums up my view on 'Murica quite succinctly.

“This guy wants to tell me we're living in a community? Don't make me laugh. I'm living in America, and in America you're on your own. America's not a country. It's just a business."

Actually, America is a corporation, and business is not good. Make of that what you will.

That sounds about right.