Topic: gun massacre

[Roach Carver]

We can't punish someone who's plan involves offing themselves at the end. You can't have much less value for your fellow man if you don't even value your own skin.

[Roach Carver]

this is a busy thread. Apologies for the sarcasm. This is a hot topic and in the end we all want the same result. Maybe there is a blood test for crazy. If we can fix that I would say our problems are solved.

[grcamna2]

this is a busy thread. Apologies for the sarcasm. This is a hot topic and in the end we all want the same result. Maybe there is a blood test for crazy. If we can fix that I would say our problems are solved.

Roach C.,
 I like what you said just a min. or 2 earlier  ... about being able to "work out our differences with words" I Fully Agree with you on that one  I'm hoping(and praying) that the other party slows down just a little and starts to listen; I've always found that to be the toughest part for me(and I mean for me personally too,I need to slow down)..,they sometimes just refuse to listen to reason and it takes a lot of 'coaxing' em to get there   

[kmb69]

  Ninty-nine out of one hundred of these massacres are perpetrated by individuals associated with a particular demographic and/or were raised in a familial environment of a particular political persuasion and/or just obvious nut cases whose family refused to acknowlege and have them committed for help - NOT "gun crazy rednecks" or "NRA members" or "extreme right wingers" or "The Tea Party".

OK, off my toilet now.

There I fixed it for you.  Aside from all the other "facts" that you presented which I don't see any point repeating I am curious about how you came about this "99 out of 100 fact" Please do tell.  It wouldn't have anything to do with your ass would it?

I was actually giving the left of center the benefit of any doubt. I challenge you to name just one of the mass murderers in recent years that does not come from one or more of the categories as I described. Actually surprised at the volume of venom blowing from your arse since, "Life...it's just a bunch of stuff that happens." Get a grip man, take control of your life. Try accepting some personal responsibility. 

Root cause of the violence:
The welfare state has propagated the disintegration of the family and our friends to the left who cannot accept personal responsibility for their own lives.

And maybe all the "brain" drugs (talk about a corporate racket) our kids are getting for ADD and such instead of the disciplinary actions actually needed. Guarantee you if I had come home from school diagnosed with any such malady, my Dad would have seen to it that I was cured overnight.

What is our government doing about it? http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2013/01/22/gun-control-obama-nra/1851643/

+1 nightpoison

[JeffSTL]

Some of my ideas-

Short term-
I think that all guns should be registered. Old and new. Every one. We have to register our cars why not guns?  Some might say, "well the criminals won't register a gun" and they a correct, so, after all guns are registered, anyone caught at any time with an unregistered weapon would be fined $5000. If caught again jail time and loss of the right to own a gun. Owning a gun comes with great responsibility and I think lawful gun owners would want to shoulder that responsibility to protect their right.

 I think anyone who doesn't properly secure their guns so they stay out of the hands of criminals, kids or crazies should have their right taken away and/or face charges depending upon the circumstances of the case. If your gun is stolen report it immediately. Since it would be registered it would be possible to track if used in a crime or otherwise confiscated.

Long term-
Most gun crimes are domestic violence and gang activity. Until we deal with the societal problems that cause these, everything else is wasting time. We have to address poverty, income inequality, lack of mental health services, education inequality, lack of upward mobility, etc, etc, etc.

I fear that if we continue to do nothing serious gun bans will be the only option left.

[JeffSTL]

  Ninty-nine out of one hundred of these massacres are perpetrated by individuals associated with a particular demographic and/or were raised in a familial environment of a particular political persuasion and/or just obvious nut cases whose family refused to acknowlege and have them committed for help - NOT "gun crazy rednecks" or "NRA members" or "extreme right wingers" or "The Tea Party".

OK, off my toilet now.

There I fixed it for you.  Aside from all the other "facts" that you presented which I don't see any point repeating I am curious about how you came about this "99 out of 100 fact" Please do tell.  It wouldn't have anything to do with your ass would it?

I was actually giving the left of center the benefit of any doubt. I challenge you to name just one of the mass murderers in recent years that does not come from one or more of the categories as I described. Actually surprised at the volume of venom blowing from your arse since, "Life...it's just a bunch of stuff that happens." Get a grip man, take control of your life. Try accepting some personal responsibility. 

Root cause of the violence:
The welfare state has propagated the disintegration of the family and our friends to the left who cannot accept personal responsibility for their own lives.

And maybe all the "brain" drugs (talk about a corporate racket) our kids are getting for ADD and such instead of the disciplinary actions actually needed. Guarantee you if I had come home from school diagnosed with any such malady, my Dad would have seen to it that I was cured overnight.

What is our government doing about it? http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2013/01/22/gun-control-obama-nra/1851643/

+1 nightpoison

Absolutely none of this is constructive.

[70CB750]

I said it earlier, mass shootings are mostly done by liberals, or at least by people who vote democrats.  They take a fetus as a "thing" they have the right to dispose of as they please and human being is for them another "thing". 

The pile of dead bodies is always bigger behind those who want to save the world and make it a better place than behind greedy capitalists. 

[JeffSTL]

I said it earlier, mass shootings are mostly done by liberals, or at least by people who vote democrats.  They take a fetus as a "thing" they have the right to dispose of as they please and human being is for them another "thing". 

The pile of dead bodies is always bigger behind those who want to save the world and make it a better place than behind greedy capitalists.

Again, nothing constructive.

[Roach Carver]

I am not for a blanket registry purely from the historical issues that have come with registries. They usually proceed confiscation. The current administration might not push for it but that would be the logical next step.

[70CB750]

Just a reality, it is good to know who you are dealing with.

[JeffSTL]

Just a reality, it is good to know who you are dealing with.

And....again. Thanks so much for doing nothing to move the discussion forward in a productive manner.

[nightpoison]

What to do boils down to a handful of things people don't want to address.

Our broken criminal justice system

The rise of the welfare state

Immigration

Family dynamic

Specificly the indoctrination of our children. Everyone are winners, there are no losers. you don't need to work hard. Equal wagers for less work.

Come on, no more dodgeball in our schools?

And of course the glorification of violence in our media

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[Duke McDukiedook]

I said it earlier, mass shootings are mostly done by liberals, or at least by people who vote democrats.  They take a fetus as a "thing" they have the right to dispose of as they please and human being is for them another "thing". 

The pile of dead bodies is always bigger behind those who want to save the world and make it a better place than behind greedy capitalists.

Wow, good to know liberals are behind all the bad things that happen in this country.
Nice blanket statement to fit your narrow view of things here.

[70CB750]

Never said they are behind it, but it is a common denominator of mass shooters.

[Duke McDukiedook]

What to do boils down to a handful of things people don't want to address.

Our broken criminal justice system

The rise of the welfare state

Immigration

Family dynamic

Specificly the indoctrination of our children. Everyone are winners, there are no losers. you don't need to work hard. Equal wagers for less work.

Come on, no more dodgeball in our schools?

And of course the glorification of violence in our media

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Holy #$%* there is so much BS in your paint-by-numbers fox news bullet point statements it is laughable. Did you cut and paste those?
Rise of the welfare state, oh boy.

[JeffSTL]

Gee, thanks for the "even Jeff"

[70CB750]

I think Retro, Nightpoison and even Jeff are pretty darn close to accurately identifying the real problems. Now, how to address it?

LOL, why does it sound so much like Mr. James Gurtleberry?

[70CB750]

     "I'm just going down to the town," announced Mr. James Gurtleberry, with an air of some importance: "I want to hear what people are saying about Albania. Affairs there are beginning to take on a very serious look. It's my opinion that we haven't seen the worst of things yet."

[nightpoison]

Duke,

I don't watch fox, I come to my own conclusions by reading reports, books, and researching myself. If you don't agree that's fine.


If you can't see or just disagree hey that's nothing to do with me. I can guarantee that I'll say BS to some of your thoughts as well.

At the end of the day if you want to discuss and change my mind your welcome to try.

In my first post I this thread, don't know if you saw, I posted facts and statistics most of which came from government and college studies which included the FBI, ATF, and Harvard university.

I'm open to discuss rational laws and changes, but my belief is that's not the cure to the greater issues. There are more issues that feed the issues we have beyond a simple machine

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[Duke McDukiedook]

Nah, that's OK.
I don't wanna try and change the mind of a person that lifts directly from the Beck/O'Reilly talking points playbook.
That person is firmly planted in the 'everything is wrong in 'Murica, what happened to my white privilege power dynamic that worked so well in the 50's but fell completely apart afterwards'.

If you really think you are going to have a legitimate discussion on the finer points of what ails 'Murica in these forums you have clearly come to the wrong place. I could go point by point on your previous post and prove you wrong but it would be pointless because, intarwebs.
http://lifehacker.com/5811255/why-you-cant-win-an-argument-on-the-internet
 

[kmb69]

Just a reality, it is good to know who you are dealing with.

And....again. Thanks so much for doing nothing to move the discussion forward in a productive manner.

Very difficult to solve most problems until such time as a VALID consensus is reached on how we got here in the first place. You are in denial refusing to accept cause and effect evaluation. You are looking for a quick fix that doesn't exist. We didn't get here overnight and won't solve this overnight. The bandaids you have proposed won't fix this long term or even stop the bleeding short term. A real good start would be to enforce the laws that already exist before stacking up more. We have no idea how effective existing laws would be were they enforced.

[nightpoison]

Wow you know me so well. Me and my white privilege. Haha, such a ridiculous argument.


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[Duke McDukiedook]

Sorry man, your list of talking points led me to that call.
Maybe you should change your stereotypical 'angry white guy' talking points and I wouldn't lump you in that category.

[JeffSTL]

Just a reality, it is good to know who you are dealing with.

And....again. Thanks so much for doing nothing to move the discussion forward in a productive manner.

Very difficult to solve most problems until such time as a VALID consensus is reached on how we got here in the first place. You are in denial refusing to accept cause and effect evaluation. You are looking for a quick fix that doesn't exist. We didn't get here overnight and won't solve this overnight. The bandaids you have proposed won't fix this long term or even stop the bleeding short term. A real good start would be to enforce the laws that already exist before stacking up more. We have no idea how effective existing laws would be were they enforced.

You obviously haven't read my posts, I've already stated that this is s complex issue which includes many causes an effects that will take considerable time energy and money. No denial here, sir. Maybe instead of simply criticizing others you could offer some suggestions about solutions. Maybe (a big maybe I'm thinking based on your last post) we could find some common ground.

[JeffSTL]

As I said in my first post, there really isn't a reason to even discuss this issue. Nothing will change. Nothing will be done about it. This topic will come up on this forum again sooner than later.