Author Topic: gun massacre  (Read 31165 times)

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Offline kmb69

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #125 on: May 30, 2014, 10:43:45 AM »
Dukie, Your irrational comments are synonymous with, "If you can't rebut the message, rebut the messenger."  :-[

Interesting how many suggestions are being labeled "nonproductive" since they don't fit another's perspective.

If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

Offline JeffSTL

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #126 on: May 30, 2014, 10:58:55 AM »
Dukie, Your irrational comments are synonymous with, "If you can't rebut the message, rebut the messenger."  :-[

Interesting how many suggestions are being labeled "nonproductive" since they don't fit another's perspective.

If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

Those comments that I labeled as not productive were in response to my comments and they were exactly that. Not productive. Maybe you comprehension skills are as lack luster as your reasoning skills. And....you guessed it, yet again, you've offered nothing constructive. Perhaps you meant to leave this post in "I just like to #$%* and conplain" thread. I'm out. Pointless.

Offline nightpoison

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #127 on: May 30, 2014, 11:01:07 AM »
Sorry man, your list of talking points led me to that call.
Maybe you should change your stereotypical 'angry white guy' talking points and I wouldn't lump you in that category.

Duke, no worries I'm not too concerned about it. However, my talking points have little to do with your racial stereo typing of me. Which is fine with me. Angry white guy, again a stereo type and assumption, but hey if you want label me go right ahead doesnt bother me, after all its the internet. Haha

 I stated some things that need to be reformed, I never said how. Ok the one about indoctrination of kids, maybe ties me to the likes of the tool O'Reilly or beck, but come on relax a little

Why not ask me what I mean, specifics. Instead of assuming things about me, specially racially. There are so many better arguments and gives you more credibility.

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Offline kmb69

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #128 on: May 30, 2014, 11:59:18 AM »
Good idea Jeff, pointless, check out. Probably the most constructive and productive contribution you are capable of making.

Offline JeffSTL

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #129 on: May 30, 2014, 12:14:59 PM »
Calj737,

Thanks for the making an attempt at an actual discussion. Unfortunately, douchebags make it an impossibility. Later.

Offline nccb

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #130 on: May 30, 2014, 12:40:40 PM »
this thread is changing courses, perhaps we should let it die before we have a bunch of unfriendly people riding around on Hondas.  That's right, don't you ruin the phrase! >:(

 ;D

Offline Bob Wessner

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #131 on: May 30, 2014, 02:02:52 PM »
If this thread can't continue rationaly and objectively, it will be locked.
We'll all be someone else's PO some day.

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #132 on: May 30, 2014, 03:31:37 PM »
I said it earlier, mass shootings are mostly done by liberals, or at least by people who vote democrats.  They take a fetus as a "thing" they have the right to dispose of as they please and human being is for them another "thing". 

WOW. Come on people this was a quite constructive thread, blatantly stupid posts like this one above do absolutely nothing for anyones point of view. Sorry Prokop, but mate....that wasn't very good. You made the point clear that you came from a far worse experience in your home country to the United States, you obviously went forward from your situation, I find myself in a  safer country here so in my experience it would be like going backwards for me {conflicting points of view already}, just because your situation has improved doesn't mean its better than mine or anyone else's here, also singling out a whole base of people, Liberals as the problem is only shoving your political beliefs down everyones throat and not needed, i would say that that was a typical right wing comment based on nothing as was your "fetus" comment, how about "people" for a label, thats the problem with society these days, its been divided up into competing factions by our wonderfully inept politicians, thats what they want, we are all just people, working to a common cause would be far more productive than pursuing selfish ideals.... Lets keep this constructive and on track for once... ;)

Good work Cal for trying to keep this rational and on track....... ;)
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Offline demon78

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #133 on: May 30, 2014, 03:44:14 PM »
Agreed RR but you got to admit that Dave's a #$%* disturber I do and admire a comment that can crank things up with so few words ( I mean 2 words and a question mark ) well done Dave. I agree it's something that needs to hashed out rationally and only people that are intelligent and open minded can come up with a solution. Time for a suds.
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« Last Edit: May 30, 2014, 03:50:52 PM by demon74 »

Offline Roach Carver

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #134 on: May 30, 2014, 04:29:30 PM »
I blame Dave for all my problems. I am almost positive that he is responsible for global warming.

Offline nccb

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #135 on: May 30, 2014, 04:45:52 PM »
I blame Dave for all my problems. I am almost positive that he is responsible for global warming.

he created the hole in the ozone above Australia.

Offline dave500

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #136 on: May 30, 2014, 05:20:36 PM »
and that was just with one fart!i didn't intend on this all becoming as big as it has,im just sorry for the folks involved and its truly sad to see things like this in our modern world in modern cultures?there is no answer I don't think?its like being struck by lightning?

Offline BobbyR

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #137 on: May 30, 2014, 05:51:50 PM »
Dave, I said it before, there is no easy solution solution in the U.S due to the incredible number of firearms in private hands. I found these nuggets in a report to the US Congress.  Here is how many Guns are estimated to be in the US, I was surprised at the acceleration:

How Many Guns Are in the United States?

The National Institute of Justice (NIJ) reported in a national survey that in 1994, 44 million people, approximately 35% of households, owned 192 million firearms, 65 million of which were handguns.
Seventy-four percent of those individuals were reported to own more than one firearm.

According to the ATF, by the end of 1996 approximately 242 million firearms were available for sale to or were possessed by civilians in the United States.
That total includes roughly 72 million handguns (mostly pistols, revolvers, and derringers), 76 million rifles, and 64million shotguns.

By 2000, the number of firearms had increased to approximately 259 million:
92 million handguns, 92 million rifles, and 75 million shotguns.
By 2007, the number of firearms had increased to approximately 294 million: 106 million handguns, 105 million rifles, and 83 million shotguns

Per capita, the civilian gun stock has roughly doubled since 1968, from one gun per every two persons to one gun per person.

There is a bright spot:

How Often Are Guns Used in Homicides?

As Ta b l e 1 shows, reports submitted by state and local law enforcement agencies to the FBI and
published annually in the Uniform Crime Reports indicate that the firearms-related murder and
non-negligent manslaughter rate per 100,000 of the population decreased from 6.6 for 1993 to 3.6
for 2000.

The rate held steady at 3.6 for 2001 and fluctuated thereafter between a high of 3.9 for
2006 and 2007, and a low of 3.2 for 2010. For 2011, it has remained at 3.2.

It is a long report to Congress with some interesting facts in it, it is just facts with no opinion. You can find it here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL32842.pdf 


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Offline grcamna2

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #138 on: May 30, 2014, 06:14:25 PM »
and that was just with one fart!i didn't intend on this all becoming as big as it has,im just sorry for the folks involved and its truly sad to see things like this in our modern world in modern cultures?there is no answer I don't think?its like being struck by lightning?

Dave,
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« Last Edit: May 30, 2014, 08:23:57 PM by grcamna2 »
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Offline kmb69

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #139 on: May 30, 2014, 07:07:16 PM »
That is a bright spot Bobby, but any number is still too high. As your post demonstrates, it would be next to impossible to confiscate every gun. And yes Dave, it is truly sad to see this situation in a supposedly modern, civilized society. My heart goes out to all the innocents and their families that have fallen victim to the insanity. Another sad situation is the typical emotional knee jerk reaction - "Take the guns" when these events are essentially manifestations of a much deeper cancer. That reaction is no different than removing alcohol from all, including those who drink responsibly, because there are those that don't and get behind the wheel while intoxicated and kill innocents even if unintended. The loonies hell bent on mass murder will devise a new tool to achieve their demented goals, whether it is propane tank bombs, automobiles, knives, poisons, or whatever. The Chinese for example have no personal guns and have still experienced multiple mass murders of significant numbers over the last few years by loonies with knives. It is fixable Dave, but it will take time to get enough on board to accept the real reasons AND be willing to do what it takes to fix it.

nightpoison nails it:
What to do boils down to a handful of things people don't want to address.
Our broken criminal justice system
The rise of the welfare state
Immigration
Family dynamic
Specificly the indoctrination of our children. Everyone are winners, there are no losers. you don't need to work hard. Equal wagers for less work.
Come on, no more dodgeball in our schools?
And of course the glorification of violence in our media

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #140 on: May 30, 2014, 10:07:38 PM »
Nightpoison is more on the money than is led on to beleive & there is heaps that could be said on each point. But those points are still symptoms of a more fundamental problem which is one of spiritual sickness. Did you see the news the other day of the 2 teenage girls in India which were raped then hanged by some low life scum? Its not a question of weapon, but that of spiritual sickness. The weapon is just the means to their end, but not the cause.
 When God is missing, what can we expect?, and where there is no faith, a man should at least be guided by his concience, if there is still some light left in it. One day, we will all be held accountable, gauranteed.

This will be my last post on this thread. Dave's not a bad bloke.

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #141 on: May 30, 2014, 10:30:42 PM »
Nightpoison is more on the money than is led on to beleive & there is heaps that could be said on each point. But those points are still symptoms of a more fundamental problem which is one of spiritual sickness. Did you see the news the other day of the 2 teenage girls in India which were raped then hanged by some low life scum? Its not a question of weapon, but that of spiritual sickness. The weapon is just the means to their end, but not the cause.
 When God is missing, what can we expect?, and where there is no faith, a man should at least be guided by his concience, if there is still some light left in it. One day, we will all be held accountable, gauranteed.

This will be my last post on this thread. Dave's not a bad bloke.

Sorry mate but you lost me here, Don't get me started on religion and the trouble it causes, you do NOT need any God to have morals, oh and those 2 Indian girls hanged themselves in shame, absolutely terrible...
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Offline BeSeeingYou

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #142 on: May 30, 2014, 10:52:47 PM »
  Ninty-nine out of one hundred of these massacres are perpetrated by individuals associated with a particular demographic and/or were raised in a familial environment of a particular political persuasion and/or just obvious nut cases whose family refused to acknowlege and have them committed for help - NOT "gun crazy rednecks" or "NRA members" or "extreme right wingers" or "The Tea Party".

OK, off my toilet now.


There I fixed it for you.  Aside from all the other "facts" that you presented which I don't see any point repeating I am curious about how you came about this "99 out of 100 fact" Please do tell.  It wouldn't have anything to do with your ass would it? ;D
I was actually giving the left of center the benefit of any doubt. I challenge you to name just one of the mass murderers in recent years that does not come from one or more of the categories as I described.



On August 5, 2012, Wade Michael Page fatally shot six people and wounded four others at a Sikh temple in Oak Creek, Wisconsin.  Obviously not a "lefty as you and others seem to imply...actually more of an "extreme right winger" to borrow your phrase.  You need anymore examples. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
  As I asked before where is your information that somehow allows you to know the political persuasion of these mass shooters and what particular demographic are you referring to...the fact that 70% of the mass shootings in this country are carried out by middle or upper middle class white males?
   You seem to get very touchy when some one questions stuff that you pull out of your ass and present as fact just because you want it to fit into your little ideological box.


As far as your other crack:
Get a grip man, take control of your life. Try accepting some personal responsibility.

All I can say is my wife and I have both been self-employed for the majority of our working careers....we have created our own economic opportunities and funded our own retirement and will be taking advantage of that soon, well before age 65.  We are living the American Dream...how's that for taking control of your life and taking personal  responsibility. 8)
« Last Edit: May 30, 2014, 11:32:59 PM by srust58 »

Offline dave500

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #143 on: May 30, 2014, 11:14:32 PM »
anyone whod have their photo taken with a swastika in the background is disturbed.

Offline martin99

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #144 on: May 30, 2014, 11:57:05 PM »
anyone whod have their photo taken with a swastika in the background is disturbed.

Totally agree. And what the hell has it got to do with the discussion anyway?
« Last Edit: May 30, 2014, 11:59:44 PM by oldskoolnuts »
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Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #145 on: May 31, 2014, 01:20:48 AM »
Er, I'm no expert of course, but I think Rusty was replying to Kmb69's challenge that the mass killer in the pic wasn't a left wing Obama loving pinko democrat, but an extreme right wing white supremacist redneck wanker, (I presume that's what the symbol on his T shirt depicts?) who likes to decorate his "Man Cave" with Nazi memorabilia? ;D
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Offline Roach Carver

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #146 on: May 31, 2014, 03:29:19 AM »
I don't associate right wing / conservatives with neo nazi's.

Offline demon78

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #147 on: May 31, 2014, 03:47:37 AM »
Oh is that the symbol for "Wanker" ?That explains a few things and it's nice that we finally have a quick and easy way of identifying "those people" now if we could agree on one for Religion, we could get a set of international road signs, you know for stop, 30 kph, bump, wanker, dump it'd be wonderful, then when you're any where in the world driving or walking you could know what to expect ahead, airport, goats, public toilet, religious center, firing range. See people, we are coming together.
Now some one has said that when he was growing up that they had figured out where not to go, same here, Vancouver being a sea port meant there were places where it was not safe, so of course, first chance we got that's were we'd head and about that, I'm sure there was a lot of Chinese, Sikhs, Indians (first nations), Maylays, Longshoremen who went home at the end of their days and #$%*ed at their wives or friends about goddam curious kids getting into trouble and where were their parents.
As far as the gun thing goes if you guys don't sort it out, you'll implode. You will most likely be welcome here but you'll have to leave your magic wands on the other side.
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Offline demon78

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #148 on: May 31, 2014, 05:19:56 AM »
The license for parents is the first and best place to start, if you did that with a proper set of criteria you would in a couple of generations eliminate a lot of the misery that we have now and in the future and in doing so would cut down on  the need for wars, guns, churches/madrassa's  crime, banks and a bunch of other plagues.
The problem is to come up with an intelligent minimum set of requirements, it would require the best minds in the world to bend their efforts to the problem of raising children.
But think of what could be done.
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Offline FuZZie

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #149 on: May 31, 2014, 05:22:06 AM »
Quote
What scares me the most about these "shooters" is that by and large, they are young people. How tragic that someone so young would choose such a drastic method or action. Think about that with great pause. Really, can you ever remember in your lifetime, when you might have ever conceived an idea to perpetrate such a violent action? The most heinous thing I ever contemplated while squirreled away in my treehouse as a moody little brat, was throwing tomatoes at the neighbors house to retaliate against their son who clothes-lined me on my bike. I had a gun or two and knew damn well how to use them. But it NEVER entered my mind. Where does the lunacy, the despair, the wanton disregard come from?

Well said and what I would consider moving towards the root of the problem!
The issue is how do you find and keep the "mental cases" away from guns?