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Offline JeffSTL

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #275 on: June 06, 2014, 08:38:35 am »
Seattle----

Luckily, that guy was armed with a shotgun and not a high capacity assault rifle and backup handgun like so many of these mass shooters. Students were able to pepper spray and tackle him while he was reloading.

There will be more. Lawmakers (leaders, HA!) will continue to deny the necessary funds for proper mental health services and are too cowardice to enact common sense gun regulations.  Nothing has changed since the last one and nothing will change after the next one.
If some of the students were armed he may have niot hurt as many people.

Possibly, but I'm not really willing to settle for that. I don't want to live in a society where my son has to be armed to go to school. Besides, the idea that arming more people makes society a safer place is contrary to the statistics.

Perhaps I should rephrase my statement. I don't won't to live in a society that would prefer to simply arm students and teachers instead of doing the hard work of indentifying the causes and working towards finding solutions together in a civilized manner, so that we can live freely without fear of being gunned down in public.

Is the self-proclaimed "greatest country on earth" incapable of this? Are we helpless? Are we just going to admitt defeat? Are we just too lazy to do anything about it?

I think this country's inability to address the issue of gun violence may be as telling about our sad state of affairs as the maniacs pulling the trigger.

Offline Duke McDukiedook

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #276 on: June 06, 2014, 09:04:42 am »
All symptoms of an empire in decline just like Rome.
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Offline BobbyR

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #277 on: June 06, 2014, 09:23:01 am »
Seattle----

Luckily, that guy was armed with a shotgun and not a high capacity assault rifle and backup handgun like so many of these mass shooters. Students were able to pepper spray and tackle him while he was reloading.

There will be more. Lawmakers (leaders, HA!) will continue to deny the necessary funds for proper mental health services and are too cowardice to enact common sense gun regulations.  Nothing has changed since the last one and nothing will change after the next one.
If some of the students were armed he may have niot hurt as many people.

Possibly, but I'm not really willing to settle for that. I don't want to live in a society where my son has to be armed to go to school. Besides, the idea that arming more people makes society a safer place is contrary to the statistics.

Perhaps I should rephrase my statement. I don't won't to live in a society that would prefer to simply arm students and teachers instead of doing the hard work of indentifying the causes and working towards finding solutions together in a civilized manner, so that we can live freely without fear of being gunned down in public.

Is the self-proclaimed "greatest country on earth" incapable of this? Are we helpless? Are we just going to admitt defeat? Are we just too lazy to do anything about it?

I think this country's inability to address the issue of gun violence may be as telling about our sad state of affairs as the maniacs pulling the trigger.
Our Politicians are incapable of coming up with a viable plan. The Gun banners are just as clueless as the those on the opposite side. Mental Health care budget has been cut every year. Some piece of garbage who had just been paroeled a week ago for just stabbed a 7 year old to death in an Elevator. He has been locked up for violence several times. He is lucky the Cops caught him since the most debased street thugs were also looking for him.   
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Offline calj737

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #278 on: June 06, 2014, 09:53:00 am »
Is the self-proclaimed "greatest country on earth" incapable of this? Are we helpless? Are we just going to admitt defeat? Are we just too lazy to do anything about it?

Sadly, in my opinion, yes. Every indication exists to already prove we are neither willing nor capable of addressing real problems with factual solutions due to the sensitivity police. We can not as a single nation even agree on simple, less life threatening issues like marriage, taxes, military, etc. Neither side is exempt from blame, and no single citizen is evidence of a solution.

I see no practical approach to identifying in advance, the mentally disturbed and incarcerating them to prevent them from doing harm. How could you ever insure that a private, free citizen is not wrongfully prosecuted? This would be a potentially major infringement on their 1st Amendment right, Free Speech. We have see occurrences where someone labels their "unusual rants" as fantasy and free speech. Obviously that is evidence of a mentally ill person, but until they conduct a crime, fantasizing isn't a crime.

I know no single person that isn't concerned and appalled by these events. How could they not be? But I have yet to understand where and how we can identify persons with great likelihood to do harm, before they do such deeds. I wish we could, though. Desperately in fact.

I liken the premise of identifying the mentally ill and suspending their liberty to pornography: "I don't know how to describe it, but I know when I see it." But are you personally willing to put yourself at risk of incarceration just because others may not feel you are being rational and "normal"? Consider that deeply as I find it very frightening.

For now, I will remain steadfast in my hopes of goodness overcoming citizens and that these senseless tragedies cease promptly.
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Offline MCRider

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #279 on: June 06, 2014, 10:08:41 am »
PERSONALLY:  don't see any way or reason for it to change. It is the human nature, biology, some percentage of the population will always be crazy. Some of them will be very good at hidiing it. Violence is nothing new. It may ebb and flow. but overall consistent with population.

As previous posts indicate, the worst school attacks occurred decades ago and involved explosives, which have been around for thousands of years.

As to gun violence, what's that? How about knife violence, China, pipe bomb violence, Unibomber, etc. its simply convenience violence. Sometimes personal fantasy violence. Limiting access to guns does nothing to limit crazy.  I submit, nothing will.

Walk on the other side of the street, figuratively and literally. With a gun.

Or so I think.
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Offline JeffSTL

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #280 on: June 06, 2014, 10:32:52 am »


Walk on the other side of the street, figuratively and literally. With a gun.

Or so I think.

I can't imagine how this could possibly be a satisfactory way to live life for anyone.

Offline MCRider

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #281 on: June 06, 2014, 11:14:27 am »


Walk on the other side of the street, figuratively and literally. With a gun.

Or so I think.

I can't imagine how this could possibly be a satisfactory way to live life for anyone.
To me, it is only unsatisfactory when one supposes it can be any other way. A tree fell on a man's house and killed him. I keep trees away from my house. I spent money to fix a tree that was threatening. Like that.

It doesn't affect my happiness.
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Offline JeffSTL

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #282 on: June 06, 2014, 11:43:25 am »


Walk on the other side of the street, figuratively and literally. With a gun.

Or so I think.

I can't imagine how this could possibly be a satisfactory way to live life for anyone.
To me, it is only unsatisfactory when one supposes it can be any other way. A tree fell on a man's house and killed him. I keep trees away from my house. I spent money to fix a tree that was threatening. Like that.

It doesn't affect my happiness.

To use your analogy, your approach to gun violence would be to stay on the other side of the house and carry a chainsaw instead of spending money to fix the threatening tree.  :)

Offline MCRider

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #283 on: June 06, 2014, 12:14:29 pm »
IF you can identify the threat you have a chance to fix it. I said that. What I'm saying is there is some level of threat, like crazy, that cannot be identified, or fixed, no matter what state one's civilisation is in, and one should not expect otherwise.

And thanks for the smiley.  :D
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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #284 on: June 06, 2014, 12:44:01 pm »
IF you can identify the threat you have a chance to fix it. I said that. What I'm saying is there is some level of threat, like crazy, that cannot be identified, or fixed, no matter what state one's civilisation is in, and one should not expect otherwise.

And thanks for the smiley.  :D



I heard of an instance in Indiana once, where an armed citizen was car jacked. The citizen promptly shot his attacker as the guy entered thru the passenger door. The attacker had a partner behind him, and as the bullet went through the first guy (killing
him) it wounded the second guy., who was consequently charged for the murder of his pal under indiana law. I don't want to stir the pot any more than it already is, but If
that story is true, what do you all think about it? Just curious...... :)

Offline MCRider

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #285 on: June 06, 2014, 01:08:56 pm »
IF you can identify the threat you have a chance to fix it. I said that. What I'm saying is there is some level of threat, like crazy, that cannot be identified, or fixed, no matter what state one's civilisation is in, and one should not expect otherwise.

And thanks for the smiley.  :D

I heard of an instance in Indiana once, where an armed citizen was car jacked. The citizen promptly shot his attacker as the guy entered thru the passenger door. The attacker had a partner behind him, and as the bullet went through the first guy (killing
him) it wounded the second guy., who was consequently charged for the murder of his pal under indiana law. I don't want to stir the pot any more than it already is, but If
that story is true, what do you all think about it? Just curious...... :)
It goes somethiing like this: if you re an accomplice in the commission of a felony, and your accomplice is killed by any party, you, a passerby, the victim, anybody, even if it was an accident, you can be charged with murder.

Pretty cool!
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Offline demon78

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #286 on: June 06, 2014, 01:16:58 pm »
I don't understand why the second person be charged with murder I understand that he should be charged with assault. I'm not sure it's worth some ones life to stop a car jacking now if said car jacker threatened me with a weapon bye bye.
If my life is threatened that's something I wouldn't take, if my family was threatened I might consider removing from the gene pool all of that particular strain of pond scum, it depends. But it still boils down to we have to do better as far as mass murder goes every one says guns are not the problem it's the villians, great, but then the fact that you can stop a guy with a shot gun while he reloads but not someone while they swap magazines means to me you that you have to stop large magazines from being sold or assault weapons.
Bill the demon.

Offline JeffSTL

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #287 on: June 06, 2014, 01:53:43 pm »
I don't understand why the second person be charged with murder I understand that he should be charged with assault. I'm not sure it's worth some ones life to stop a car jacking now if said car jacker threatened me with a weapon bye bye.
If my life is threatened that's something I wouldn't take, if my family was threatened I might consider removing from the gene pool all of that particular strain of pond scum, it depends. But it still boils down to we have to do better as far as mass murder goes every one says guns are not the problem it's the villians, great, but then the fact that you can stop a guy with a shot gun while he reloads but not someone while they swap magazines means to me you that you have to stop large magazines from being sold or assault weapons.
Bill the demon.

Careful Bill. No matter how reasonable, logical or sensible that might sound, it could possibly cause an NRA member's head to explode when they read it. It could get you labeled a pinko gun grabbing libtard. You don't want to have to carry that around.  :)

Offline calj737

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #288 on: June 06, 2014, 02:06:21 pm »
@DH - what is the question you're asking? Whether defending a car jack attempt with a firearm is reasonable, or killing 2 while attempting to only kill 1? Is the potential for innocent victims (if 2nd person had been a pedestrian) the concern? I see all kinds of responses and scenarios to the occurrence you cited.

@demon - Bill I won't dispute that yesterday's event could have been far more tragic with a greater loss of life had the shooter held more rounds in his magazine. BUT, the shotgun he fired, more than likely had at least a 5 round capacity and could more than easily have been modified to carry +9 rounds. The fact that he "fumbled" during reloading is as equally true a possibility with sidearms, semiautomatic rifles, or carbines.

What most people completely overlook is the lethal energy between all these weapons. Our own Vice President issued a moronic statement that to protect yourself at home, you only need to fire off 2 rounds from a shotgun and the would-be intruder would flee. Well, that scenario played out within 2 weeks in the suburban MD area at a shipping mall where the assailant used a shotgun. Duh!

If you look at the ballistics between an AR-15 and a 12 gauge shotgun, the shotgun, if loaded with 00 buck shot (we've all heard of it) has an average pellet count of 12 pellets with a nominal caliber of 0.33. That's 12x0.33 per round. 3-5 rounds from a shotgun, do the math. That's up to 60 .33 caliber rounds being fired.

A 10 round capacity, or even 15 round capacity AR-15 "assault rifle" as it has been misnamed, fires a 5.56mm or .223 round. So would you rather confront 15 .223 projectiles fired on a "string" of accuracy, or an indiscriminate pattern of 12 .33 pellets fired repeatedly canvassing a 30" circle within 40 yards.

What happened in Seattle is a far more dangerous scenario and as hunter and shooter, it's the scenario more feared. A lunatic with a shotgun will do infinitely more harm than any sidearm or carbine. This is why some proposed "gun regulations" are absolutely meaningless. They focus not on the lethality, only the image of evil weapons. It's asinine.

Lastly, let me dis spell a few myths about the lethality of a shotgun. It is not a short range only weapon. It will kill a large animal stone dead at 100 yards. Even a human. You will not out run it, you will not escape it's pattern up close. The devastation is terrifying, trust me. I'd much rather confront someone with a pistol or carbine shooting in a panic than to be near someone with a shotgun. It's also why many frontier hunting guides carry them. They stop dangerous animals immediately.

I don't say this to persuade you in any direction because we are in lock step about the need to solve this problem. But let's solve the problem and stop putting a new dress on the same ugly pig.

@JeffSTL - Really, is this the productive approach to dialogue you seek? Open your mind, leave the preconceived notions at home, and join a thread to identify individuals who seek to find a solution, not to childishly call each other names.
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Offline JeffSTL

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #289 on: June 06, 2014, 02:47:12 pm »


@JeffSTL - Really, is this the productive approach to dialogue you seek? Open your mind, leave the preconceived notions at home, and join a thread to identify individuals who seek to find a solution, not to childishly call each other names.

Nope. I probed and questioned and tried to have a serious convo about it, but according to the "pro-gun rights" crowd, there doesn't seem to be anything we can do. It's "just human nature", we just have to "hope", if you restrict guns at all "they'll just kill with something else", no sense in spending time or money on mental health services because "you can't fix crazy". And really "it's all the liberal media's fault" and maybe a parting shot at "Obummer" and throw in abortion just for good measure.

This once great country, a country that defeated the great British monarchy, unified after a bloody civil war, helped defeat the Nazis, came back from the Great Depression, built the Hoover Dam, and put a #$%*ing man on the moon, is powerless to do anything about the thousands gunned down every year.

I figure it pointless to discuss anymore. Figured I'd share a little joke with Bill.

Offline Duke McDukiedook

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #290 on: June 06, 2014, 03:11:16 pm »
Yeah, apparently abortion, libtards and Obummer are responsible for all this country's ills.
If only we could make this place a theocracy (Taliban are great!!!), outlaw that nasty abortion once and for all, (we wouldn't want women to have control over their own bodies now would we??) outlaw them nasty gay peoples and resurrect the body of Ronnie Raygun this country would be a respectable place again!!

God bless Dick Cheney, Sarah Palin and most of all Marine Todd for knocking that libtard college teacher straight on his ass!!! Take that intellectualism and science!

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Offline calj737

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #291 on: June 06, 2014, 03:15:08 pm »
I'm sure you're just as frustrated as everyone else. The "gun rights" crowd having to constantly defend their right against infringement, the "pro regulation" groups that can't get their message to persuade enough people, the "apathetic" realists who declare you can't legislate morality or sanity, and those who believe you can't defy human nature. All of these opinions are relevant and accurate.

So, how then do you meld them together to bring about change? Can the only change be "my" way? I have not seen or heard anyone support their recommendation with substance about how you mete out the infringements or prevent corruption of the new legislation. I welcome any reasonable idea, but I would like to hear someone's idea be substantiated by more than a topic, and convey some actual substance.

Ok, the mental health system is broken, but how do you fix it to identify and prevent these atrocities? I don't understand how you can, but I'm all ears.

I don't interpret Bill as an anti-gun liberal. I perceive him as a reasonable guy who doesn't feel the need or have any experiences that have given reason to feel the need for self protection. That's great by me and I see no threat from him. So let's not provoke those less reasonable into responding to your comment is all I'm suggesting.

We are all at risk of this epidemic. And if we, as an international group of very different individuals can use a common passion (motorcycles) to bond us together, than perhaps it can be an incentive to further our support for solutions on a common plague. Maybe I'm being idealistic, maybe I just see an opportunity. Either way, I'm open to all ideas that have merit (whether it's arming teachers, or restricting guns) as long as it's justifiable within our laws.
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Offline calj737

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #292 on: June 06, 2014, 03:33:34 pm »
Yeah, apparently abortion, libtards and Obummer are responsible for all this country's ills.
Oh, I doubt that's true. Certainly the party in power for the past 6 years has had their fare share of problems and created some others. But they're not solely to blame under any circumstance. I doubt anyone truly believes that either. Perhaps, what they mean to say is: current policies don't seem to be wiring, why not try some other approach? Seems a reasonable proposition, but that's what voting is about. Don't you agree?

Quote
If only we could make this place a theocracy (Taliban are great!!!)
Well, that is an interesting premise. Seems to be more evidence of usurping constitutional process being uncovered currently, more so than previously. I think the facts are not yet proved, but sure is a great deal of grist for the mill.

Quote
outlaw that nasty abortion once and for all, (we wouldn't want women to have control over their own bodies now would we??)

So now we are on to abortion and abortion rights? That ought to take the steam out of this gun thread... But since you seem to have a declared position, may I ask, if you're so drastically troubled by the lives lost by gun violence in the US annually, (srust posted 32,000) then how many lives (fetuses) are an acceptable number annually in your eyes? I'm not anti-abortion at all.

I am not interested in the obligation to contribute state or federal tax dollars to subsidize it. And I think the father's rights need to be considered, and I damn well don't believe the US government had any right to decide that my minor child should be entitled to lawfully decide the outcome of the life of a fetus without my parental consent.

Quote
and resurrect the body of Ronnie Raygun this country would be a respectable place again!!

Ok, you don't/didn't like Reagan. But please do tell me another President in the past 50 years who presided over a greater global change in democratic freedom (Berlin wall, Soviet demise) greater national prosperity, and lower rates of homicide and drug violations in the US. He wasn't perfect by any stretch, but he's far from the villain your snide comment portrays.

And thanks so much for proving my earlier point about childish postings not offering anything productive. Glad to see there is consistency-
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline martin99

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #293 on: June 06, 2014, 04:50:59 pm »
I don’t profess to know anything about North American/Canadian gun laws, and have too little an understanding of the issues to comment with any authority or confidence. Apart from a brief departure featuring kangaroos, that I did grasp, much of the rest has frankly gone over my head although I have been trying to follow as best I can.

One recurrent theme I have noticed is the reference to mental illness, a subject I do feel able to comment on having been in psychiatric nursing for over twenty years. There appears to be an almost universal acceptance that the perpetrators of these murderous acts are mentally unwell. Well they must be, mustn’t they?

In my experience individuals who commit such acts can be mad, or bad, and the repercussions they face as a result of their acts should be tailored accordingly. It is no more right to call for their instant destruction than it is to label them all as of unsound mind. Each case must be judged on its own merit. In the UK, and I suspect in the rest of the civilised world, there are tests to ascertain a person’s culpability in such cases. Here they are referred to as mental capacity assessments and are adapted to many situations, for example from determining whether a person in the early stages of dementia has the capacity or capability to manage their own finances, to whether someone is able to attend court and understand and participate in the process.

To take the example of this latest shooter, he will no doubt undergo a string of psychiatric assessments in order to ascertain if he is fit to stand trial. He will be asked if he took the actions he did in the full knowledge of what he was doing and it will be determined whether he had full understanding of the consequences of his actions. In the absence of any other underlying mental health diagnoses he will likely stand trial and be dealt with accordingly through the judicial system. If deemed mentally unwell he may, by order of the court, be committed to a mental health institution for rehabilitation and treatment. Whether or not he ever got out would be another matter. At least that would be the process here.

Whilst the incidents of atrocity appear to be on the increase, the dilemma about how the perpetrators should be treated afterwards is not new. A prime example happened here in the UK in the 1960s, when Myra Hindley and Ian Brady abducted, killed and buried five children on Saddleworth Moor. Both received life imprisonment, with Hindley dying in custody in 2002 having earned the title of ‘most evil woman in Britain’. I was very young at the time of the convictions, but as I understand there were many calling for reinstatement of the death penalty.  In 1985 Brady was, some twenty years after the atrocities, deemed criminally insane and transferred to a high security psychiatric hospital. A case of bad, then mad? I think it’s fair to say that the majority of the population wanted them dead, but others argued they needed help, not punishment. These others, perhaps unsurprisingly, were not very popular and it would still take a brave man to put forward that argument today. But is it valid?

Either way it is not palatable for the parents and relatives of victims of such atrocities to have to contribute to the cost of care or detention of these people through their taxes. It is irksome to think their breakfasts are being paid for from the public purse, and even more galling when you understand that most perpetrators of such crimes are segregated from the rest of the inmates like child sex offenders are, for their own protection, meaning they have a relatively easy time inside prison. (In a previous role I visited several prisons. Sex offenders over here have their own wing, one particular one I visited had spacious cells with en-suite showers and patterned wallpaper, better than some hotels I’ve stayed in).

I’m not a pc tree-hugging do-gooder, far from it, and I do believe that people who commit these acts and can be demonstrated to have capacity for their crimes should get all that’s coming to them. But is it right to dish out the same retribution to someone who is mentally unwell? Those of us who decry the lack of mental health provision prior to such atrocities taking place should surely be demanding excellence in care after the event also? Isn’t that the civilised way?
I know it’s an emotive subject, but if we’re just going to say they’re all crazy and we should just lynch the fcukers, it makes little sense when we are showing so much empathy for them before they have done wrong. It also does little to address the stigma surrounding mental illness, from which one in four of us will suffer at some point in our lives.

Not at all sure what I’m saying here, just transferring a few rambling thoughts to the keyboard. :-\
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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #294 on: June 06, 2014, 05:07:52 pm »
My post just illustrates part of the problem. There many angles from which that scenario can be viewed. It seems to justify the victim's actions, and solve a problem at the same time. It's a strong argument for legal owners of firearms. I just asked what others thought
of it. No doubt there are other similar events that have happened with less than the desirable outcome. Laws for firearms need some change, just like the economy.
And only when they're fair. That will
only happen if two things occur. Compromise and sacrifice. It's a big siht sandwich, and we're all gonna have to take a bite. That I truly believe. For the record if it matters, I am not an anti gun person. And I don't like senseless killing any more than the next guy. :)

Offline calj737

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #295 on: June 06, 2014, 05:08:54 pm »
Your point is well put and despite my emotive "put them down comment" I'd have to agree with you.

Where I struggle, is how do we identify and prevent these atrocities using mental testing? Do we line everyone up and administer exams? Is there some universal screening process that is accurate enough and equally agreed to? Who sets the standards of unwell, wacky, or likely to be grossly violent?

It's this chasm that creates the divide between my perspective and some others. I'm not sure there is a remedy to the above, hence my emotive, "If you can't prevent this, make certain it never happens again". Inhumane? Perhaps. Uncivilized? I'll concede that too. But sometimes, harsh punishments can be sufficient deterrent to potential criminals.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline JeffSTL

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #296 on: June 06, 2014, 05:28:33 pm »
Yeah, apparently abortion, libtards and Obummer are responsible for all this country's ills.


Quote
and resurrect the body of Ronnie Raygun this country would be a respectable place again!!

Ok, you don't/didn't like Reagan. But please do tell me another President in the past 50 years who presided over a greater global change in democratic freedom (Berlin wall, Soviet demise) greater national prosperity, and lower rates of homicide and drug violations in the US. He wasn't perfect by any stretch, but he's far from the villain your snide comment portrays.



I'll gladly take your challenge to dispute your claims of Reagan.

First, all real historians would say the most important cause of the fall of the Soviet Union by far was its failed, unsustainable political and economic system, which would have eventually collapsed regardless of American policy. Only Reagan revisionists believe he had much to do with it.

Second, Reagan's great prosperity?  Forbes, a very conservative publication, says it was by far Bill Clinton. This politifact post uses 3 different methods to try to figure this out and several presidents come out on top of Ronnie.

http://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2012/oct/29/tim-kaine/tim-kaine-says-bill-clinton-presided-over-biggest-/

Third, homicide rate. Every president since Reagan has presided over a lower homocide rate and gun specific homicide rates have been falling since around 1993, early in Clinton's terms.
See attached graph below.

Not saying Reagan was good or bad, but all of the things you are claiming make him good are easily disputable. 
« Last Edit: June 06, 2014, 05:30:38 pm by JeffSTL »

Offline JeffSTL

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #297 on: June 06, 2014, 05:38:35 pm »
BTW, I don't think the idea is to use some sort of mental health "test" to attempt to determine who may be a potential shooter. I think the idea is, over the past few decades we have cut all mental health services to an unacceptable level. Services that may help these people and their families deal with problems before they end up doing something to harm themselves or others.

Offline grcamna2

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #298 on: June 06, 2014, 06:21:58 pm »
I personally hope that when one of these very messed up 'mental case' people finally decide to admit they've got some serious problems(long Before they have a severe episode...like killing all of us)and decide to come 'out of the closet' and open up to another caring person w/ ALL the weird junk they've kept bottled up for so long..., well then I hope they really can find someone who will listen to'em as long as it takes to get'em back to some semblance of True Reality. Just giving them pills doesn't do that much for all the years of 'stinkin thinkin'... if you know what I mean.
I also hope they stop using this type of 'character' in so many movies
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Offline 70CB750

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Re: gun massacre
« Reply #299 on: June 06, 2014, 06:38:38 pm »
Well, JeffSTL, it just proves you don't know a sihte.

Did you ever study economy?  Do you know anything about late Soviet Union? Did you ever study anything above high school level?

From here it looks like you did not.