Topic: The Great Biker Spend Off - Hardley Functionson

[JP]

Okay, I didn't read all the posts, so if I repeat something, sorry.

First off, I would like to defend someone and I know all you guys will be with me on this if you haven't already mentioned it.  

Jesse James is the #$%*.  He is almost single handedly responsible for all these choppers and he is a fabricating mother #$%*er.  I am sure that there are others out there that are good like him (I really like Jesse Rooke, too) but not many.  You are right for the most part, they are all cookie cutter bikes.

Now, for the thrashing.  This past weekend, I went to a bikefest down here in Georgia.  Unlike most, I didn't care about the wild party so much as I went to see and buy bike stuff.  I had originally planned on taking two bikes with me, but that just didn't pan out due to other peoples short comings, not mine.

Anywho, all it was was a gang load of harleys with an average age of 40-60 year olds riding them through the campgrounds and vendor park in one big circle.  I swear, it was like I was back in high school (in a bad way).  Everyone was just cruising on #$%*ty harley's----ALL DAY LONG!!!!

I hated it.  The worst part was that about the only thing that I could browse around at to buy was a blow up doll and leather vests, or a combination of the two.  The coolest thing I saw was a tractor trailor with a dyno in the back, but it never got used once while I was there.....all day.

I'm tellin' ya, I will be glad when my generation get's enough money to run things.  Cause that's what it is all about.  Money.  The only people with enough money to buy the Harley and Harley/Custom #$%* are old farts.  When the guys that are in their 20's and 30's right now are in their 40's and 50's- that's when we will see OUR cool stuff all over the place.

JP

[ElCheapo]

I guess what the biggest problem seems to be is over achievement by Harley in the marketing realm. It used to be the Harley riders were pretty unique by riding an "American" bike. But now due to greedy marketing they are just as common as a cold. But they are getting as fun as a venerial disease. It has gotten so stupid that if you asked someone around here to say first word that comes to mind besides beer when you say motorcycle and they will say Harley. Not better, just better known.

[Jeff]

I agree, Jesse James is a great fabricator/builder. I wish he would've stuck to bikes though and not that Monster Garage crap.

But I can't stand seeing West Coast Choppers stuff because everyone who wears the crap is buying it at Walmart.

Jeff

[ElCheapo]

I agree, Jesse James is a great fabricator/builder. I wish he would've stuck to bikes though and not that Monster Garage crap.

But I can't stand seeing West Coast Choppers stuff because everyone who wears the crap is buying it at Walmart.

Jeff

Again a case of over-achievement. This bothers me as I will be watching this very closely. The poser "lifestyle" that has encompassed the custom motorcycle is sickening. I think things are a bit like the Deals Gap/Dragons Tail shirts. You have no business wearing one unless you have done it. Like a military uniform. 

[nickjtc]

I guess what the biggest problem seems to be is over achievement by Harley in the marketing realm.

And as has been mentioned before, they had a bit of help from President Reagan in introducing the 'unfair competition' tariffs on imported bikes, just when they needed that initial push to get the band wagon rolling.

[Tim.]

I think there are a lot of guys more than 2x Jesse James' age who would take great offence to the suggestion that he is somehow responsible for all these choppers etc. etc.  Sure, he can work metal, as many many metal workers around the world can, but he's just one in a long long lineage of custom motorcycle designers/builders that date back to the day after the motorcycle was invented.

If you want to credit someone/thing with the current mainstream popularity of 'choppers' then mail your thank-you card to The Discovery Channel.

There has always been a following of custom V-Twin based motorcycles, and that's where many of these recently-famous guys made/supplemented their livelihood.

I guarantee you that they all make WAY more money as a byproduct of being on TV now ($40 t-shirts anyone?) then they do from any motorcycles they actually make.

Jesse James was chosen by various TV producers, presumably because he has an interesting lineage and convenient name.  OCC was chosen for American Chopper because another shop fell through, and the family dynamic is reflective of 99% of father-son relationships.  They're all characters to be sure, now amplified 100x by the lens of a Hi-Def camera.

None of these guys are household names because of their work.

[JP]

tintin,

A lot of what you are saying is spot on, and I'm not disagreeing with it, but......

Although Jessie James did not invent the chopper, by the time he started building them the chopper scene was near completely dead.  Due to his persona as well as his building and design abilities, HE is at the forefront of the modern chopper revolution.  Anyone who says different probably hasn't looked at the big picture. 

Before he started building, nearly all of the v-twin customs where fat low riders built for comfort.  He was the first mainstream builder to bring back the old school styles and he made them about 82.3 times better than they ever had been.  He was not chosen for the discovery show to fill a spot.  The producer had met him and created Motorcycle Mania BECAUSE of him.  His shop is THE reason the show even came about. 

Yes, much much much credit is to be given to TV and advertisement.  But if Jessie James did not exist, I doubt if it would be half as popular as it is now.

Also, Jeff-  While I understand how you feel about the abundance of clothing lines, apparell and stuff (I don't like it either), I must say that if I ever start a buisness and it becomes successfull enough to be mainstream, I'll be damned if I hold out just so that I will be known as a purist.  If people call me a sale-out, so be it, I would be raken' it in.

JP

[Jeff]

Also, Jeff-  While I understand how you feel about the abundance of clothing lines, apparell and stuff (I don't like it either), I must say that if I ever start a buisness and it becomes successfull enough to be mainstream, I'll be damned if I hold out just so that I will be known as a purist.  If people call me a sale-out, so be it, I would be raken' it in.

For once, we're in agreement.

I never said I didn't think he was good anymore because he "sold out" or whatever to Walmart. I just meant that I'm sick of seeing his shirts and stuff. Good for him for raking in the money. All these yokels who buy a WCC shirt and think, "Now I'm a badass", aren't very bright. James still has talent, but his logo, to me, is tired. I think West Coast Choppers has lost a bit of "flair" or whatever because of it.

Everytime I see a bike with the iron cross on it, I want to puke. DO SOMETHING ORIGINAL!

And because of this thread, I went to his website. I don't care for that style of custom. Just not my thing, but I appreciate the fact that he's excellent at what he does.

Jeff

[dusterdude]

Okay, I didn't read all the posts, so if I repeat something, sorry.

First off, I would like to defend someone and I know all you guys will be with me on this if you haven't already mentioned it.  

Jesse James is the #$%*.  He is almost single handedly responsible for all these choppers and he is a fabricating mother #$%*er.  I am sure that there are others out there that are good like him (I really like Jesse Rooke, too) but not many.  You are right for the most part, they are all cookie cutter bikes.

Now, for the thrashing.  This past weekend, I went to a bikefest down here in Georgia.  Unlike most, I didn't care about the wild party so much as I went to see and buy bike stuff.  I had originally planned on taking two bikes with me, but that just didn't pan out due to other peoples short comings, not mine.

Anywho, all it was was a gang load of harleys with an average age of 40-60 year olds riding them through the campgrounds and vendor park in one big circle.  I swear, it was like I was back in high school (in a bad way).  Everyone was just cruising on #$%*ty harley's----ALL DAY LONG!!!!

I hated it.  The worst part was that about the only thing that I could browse around at to buy was a blow up doll and leather vests, or a combination of the two.  The coolest thing I saw was a tractor trailor with a dyno in the back, but it never got used once while I was there.....all day.

I'm tellin' ya, I will be glad when my generation get's enough money to run things.  Cause that's what it is all about.  Money.  The only people with enough money to buy the Harley and Harley/Custom #$%* are old farts.  When the guys that are in their 20's and 30's right now are in their 40's and 50's- that's when we will see OUR cool stuff all over the place.

JP

jp,who do think is buying harleys now,thats right,the old guys that owned hondas and kaws back in the 70`s.it doesnt change,when your generation gets enough money to buy one most of your peers will do it too.

[JP]

That's a really good point Duster, but I guess I'm wishful thinking.  There is one harley I wouldn't mind- a sportster.  That's right, a sportster.  Really tricked out as a racer, like dirt track or something.  I've seen a lot of them and I almost always like them.  I've seen one with a half and half paint job that was just awesome.  I think it was orange on one side and black on the other and I think someone posted it here.

JP

[Raul CB750K1]

I also like the sportster. There are two things I don't like from it: the exhaust, the tiny headlight and the price. Ok, that's three things...

There was a limited edition a while back with a two-to-one exhaust that meant business. Let's see if I can find it in the internet...voilà





and if you want to see cool custom bikes, check out the Goldammer works






Raul

[Terry in Australia]

Hmmmmmnnnnn, well I've only ever owned a Sporty, but I've ridden most models over the years, and I'd have another one in my garage for sure. Most Harley "knockers" are themselves sheep who have never owned one, much less ridden one, and in reality, know bugger-all about their own bikes, so for those reasons, in my mind, they have no credibility.

I am constantly amazed that Americans would put a Japanese product above that of their own, if Australia had a home grown motorcycle manufacturer, I'd guarantee that I'd have at least one in my garage. Harleys are great bikes, and I know plenty of Harley owners who are good blokes.

Sure there are dickhead Harley owners out there, same as there are plenty of dickhead Honda owners, but don't blame the bike, sadly the bike can't get to choose who rides it. Cheers, Terry.

[scunny]

I ended up fast forwarding through most of this thread, stopped to look at a few pics, why are so many of you up tight about Hardlys or choppers ?
if that's what people like then all power to them.
by the way, I've never ridden nor owned a Harley. I realise they don't handle nor go very fast, but do they(the riders) look worried.
 That's the end of my wee rant, onward with your "........"
OOOOOPS see above, Terry said it better

[Terry in Australia]

I ended up fast forwarding through most of this thread, stopped to look at a few pics, why are so many of you up tight about Hardlys or choppers ?
if that's what people like then all power to them.
by the way, I've never ridden nor owned a Harley. I realise they don't handle nor go very fast, but do they(the riders) look worried.
 That's the end of my wee rant, onward with your "........"
OOOOOPS see above, Terry said it better

Hey Scunny, have you got any sisters mate? I want to find a deserted desert island and create an intelligent free-thinking race of motorcycle lovers, and I think the combination of our two gene pools would be a good start, ha ha! Cheers, Terry.

[scunny]

that's all I need, I'm off to bed and will be dreaming about gene pools.
two sisters and they got the brains, what the hell happened there ?

[Terry in Australia]

that's all I need, I'm off to bed and will be dreaming about gene pools.
two sisters and they got the brains, what the hell happened there ?

Different fathers perhaps mate?

[dusterdude]

the problem with a lot of harley owners is they buy into the persona of harley thinking because they now own one they have to carry the "attitude" with it.

[cmorgan47]

I am constantly amazed that Americans would put a Japanese product above that of their own, if Australia had a home grown motorcycle manufacturer, I'd guarantee that I'd have at least one in my garage. Harleys are great bikes, and I know plenty of Harley owners who are good blokes.

2 words.  forward controls. 

can't stand that position at all.  i've ridden a few metric cruisers and a sportster and i can't stand that feel.  the earlier sporties, with a basically neutral position, i might be ok with--never ridden one--but i hate that barca-lounger position.  highway pegs are worse.

as to the owners, yeah i know a few harley owners that are great guys and a few that are dicks.  isn't that the case with most populations?  there are some posers, who are basically entertaining, but around royal oak, on a bike night you get pleanty of gixxer guys in full leathers with unscathed knee pucks too.  and quite a few who have layed down the cash for some fully restored classic that they have no clue how to work on.  all populations have their posers.

[Steve F]

why are so many of you up tight about Hardlys or choppers ?

Because it's beign RAMMED down our throats 'till I wanna puke!  I'm sick of all the vee-twin #$%* as being the beat-all "best thing since sliced bread" bull #$%*. My $.025 worth of opinion.  And yes, opinions are like a$$holes, everybody's got one.

[firecracker]

Recent experience forces me to chime in.

Disclaimer:  Although I could never personally justify the expense of a Harley, I do like them.

Met with some clients yesterday (3 women), and talk came around to my recent purchase.  They asked what kind of motorcycle I got.  Told them it was a 1978 Honda.  That's ALL I told them about my bike.  1978  and  Honda.

Their response?  "Oh, you're not really a motorcyclist then, since you didn't get a Harley".  I replied - Actually I think I'm MORE of one because of that (okay - unnecessary, but they were starting to irritate me).

One of them then said "you should talk to Max, he's got a motorcycle".  Another chimed in with "but I think his is bigger than yours - it's a Harley".   But, I didn't tell you what size, oh never mind - AAARRRGGHHHH!!!!   

The thing is, the only thing any of them know about motorcycles is what they've been "taught" by the HD marketers.  That's why (I think) so many people get their shorts in a bunch about Harley's.  It's a pre-emptive defense.

I'm still proud as hell of my bike, and the fact that I'm going to be customizing it myself - to look the way I want it.  But I am getting a bit defensive about it.  Like I need to educate the masses as to WHY the Honda is a great bike.  Oh well, I guess I should just smile, and be glad I got my new hobby for $17,000 less than their friend.   

[Loudpipe]

Their response?  "Oh, you're not really a motorcyclist then, since you didn't get a Harley".  I replied - Actually I think I'm MORE of one because of that (okay - unnecessary, but they were starting to irritate me).

One of them then said "you should talk to Max, he's got a motorcycle".  Another chimed in with "but I think his is bigger than yours - it's a Harley".

This would have pissed me off in the extreme. I probably would have said something inappropriate or exceedingly sarcastic at this point.

[burmashave]

I am constantly amazed that Americans would put a Japanese product above that of their own, if Australia had a home grown motorcycle manufacturer, I'd guarantee that I'd have at least one in my garage. Harleys are great bikes, and I know plenty of Harley owners who are good blokes.

We're into choice, and a lot of it.  I am agnostic about buying American versus imports; however, if Americans didn't buy imports, we'd still be driving AMC Gremlins.  The same is true for Harleys.  Were it not for Japanese imports, there could be no Harley posers because the first thing you'd need to do to your new Harley would be the necessary tear down and rebuild.
   

Sure there are dickhead Harley owners out there, same as there are plenty of dickhead Honda owners, but don't blame the bike, sadly the bike can't get to choose who rides it. Cheers, Terry.

Some products, such as the Hummer, have more than their fair share of posers, "I have a Hummer.  I could go off-roading if I wanted to."  Plus, I wonder if the sitimication is the same outside the US.  Here, Harleys are everywhere, and the number of old school owners seems to be dwindling.  At least, that's what all the new Harley riding apparel tells me.

There are cool Harley riders.  I don't think anyone here denies that.  The last Harley owner I met just sold his Triumph restoration and is now restoring a '77 CB750.

[ElCheapo]

Hmmmmmnnnnn, well I've only ever owned a Sporty, but I've ridden most models over the years, and I'd have another one in my garage for sure. Most Harley "knockers" are themselves sheep who have never owned one, much less ridden one, and in reality, know bugger-all about their own bikes, so for those reasons, in my mind, they have no credibility.

I am constantly amazed that Americans would put a Japanese product above that of their own, if Australia had a home grown motorcycle manufacturer, I'd guarantee that I'd have at least one in my garage. Harleys are great bikes, and I know plenty of Harley owners who are good blokes.

Sure there are dickhead Harley owners out there, same as there are plenty of dickhead Honda owners, but don't blame the bike, sadly the bike can't get to choose who rides it. Cheers, Terry.

Terry, Harley's here in Harley land are like a social disease much more than any other brand. Now I have had Harley's, Harley's that most would not even recognize as one. Funny the looks you get with an old Sprint. The bright side is that all "FADS" Fade, and soon as it does, it will be cool to pull out the old Sprint again.

This is a case of going against the norm or the grain. Harley's here are the norm so total and complete loathing is a result.

I know nothing and nothing and this is a rouse...... Smoke........ Mirrors.......Dog and pony shooooowwwwwww........ You are under my control......

I'm not a dickhead - more like the head dick. I am the HMIC "Head Mexican In Charge" 

[Terry in Australia]

OK guys, whatever, there are plenty of Harleys here and plenty of Harley haters to boot. Anyone got an uninhabited  desert island for sale? I wanna start again...................... 

[nickjtc]

I know nothing and nothing and this is a rouse...... Smoke........ Mirrors.......Dog and pony shooooowwwwwww........ You are under my control......

I'm not a dickhead - more like the head dick. I am the HMIC "Head Mexican In Charge" 

Whoa Cheapo.....! Are your pneumonia meds getting to you?!!