Topic: Redacting my statement about Thai spokes. They BLOW, Literally.

[Lostboy Steve]

I'll admit it, I was wrong. Do not buy the eBay or Amazon spokes from Thailand. Here's why. I did 200 miles yesterday. As per my previous thread, the spokes had become loose after about 1500 miles or so. I tightened them before I left. (No I didn't over-tighten) About 3/4 through my journey yesterday, they started popping like popcorn. The heads snapped right off them where the bend is. After completing 50 miles on a wobbly rim, I arrived home to see that at least 8 of the spokes had now broken.

So, I am blasting and powder-coating all of my tarnished factory spokes and nipples. The lesson here? Even though they looked great (still do) and seemed to do their job, well, as Andy Dufresne put it, "Time plus pressure...".

[754]

We're the Thailand spokes butted on the head end?
 That and bend radius. Can play a major part in strength.

[AJK]

If your original spokes were corroded sufficiently to cause you to buy new, and now you are blasting and coating them, then you haven't learned the lesson yet. Spokes that are corroded are weakened structurally. Blasting them will also remove more metal, further weakening them.

Spend the money and buy new, quality spokes once. You've already escaped once, a very dangerous situation. What price your safety? The most expensive set of spokes is still far cheaper than the least expensive trip to the ER.

Here endeth the sermon-

+1. Spokes are just something you need to spend the money on IMO. I'd be happy if the rules were that you can only buy stainless of a certain quality. This is what you pay & thats what you get. Goes for bicycles too. I have an old malvern star racer (bicycle) that i have literally done thousands of km's over the past 20 years and still riding it today. It had quality spokes on it from the 80's and they are still on the bike today. Over those years, i think i have broken 3 or 4 spokes in total (max).
  Just get something of decent quality and be done with it for a good long while. Go with a set of stainless from Buchanans and you should be trouble free for a good number of years if they are laced up properly from the start. Wont be cheap, but you wont get these headaches either.

[Lostboy Steve]

I said tarnished. Not corroded. The original spokes had about 9k on them and the finish was faded, no rust, no corrosion. I have a colour theme I'm working with, and I don’t think chrome or nickel will cut it any more. Even if I buy new, I'm blasting them and coating.

754, the major problem I saw (see) is that the Thailand spokes are the same diameter throughout. Whereas the original spokes are thicker near the hub. They fit really well initially.

[grcamna2]

Those Thai spokes sound like straight gauge one size fits All GARBAGE ! I'll never buy any of'em.
 I like the OEM Honda spokes which are butted on the curved end for more strength,when they're properly laced and all torqued/trued to spec. they 'can't be beat'   imo    I like how they fit the hubs too,nice and tight is what you're looking for.

[Muckinfuss]

What does 'butted' mean?

[754]

Bigger diameter where needed for higher strength.  Can be single or double butted..a double would be thinner in the middle than on both ends..

[andrewk]

How many headaches have started with "I have a colour theme I'm working with?" 

I'd buy new spokes if it were me.  OEM available new, buchanans for a bit more.   Don't know if I'd powdercoat them though.  Something thin like gun kote, or maybe even appliance paint would be a better option.

[Lostboy Steve]

Where's powderman when I need him. Powder isnt too thick. We've already established that in other threads.

[grcamna2]

Where's powderman when I need him. Powder isnt too thick. We've already established that in other threads.

I like the idea of powder coating'em; what color are you thinking ? 

[andrewk]

So long as it's the right coating, knock yourself out.  If you expect me to think you know what you're doing in the context of this thread you're nuts.

[andrewk]

Wasn't trying to be offensive really. I just would never buy those junk thai spokes in the first place, the (lack of) quality seems to be pretty well established.  Buy nice or buy it twice- never truer words spoken.

I've got no idea what this dude has done or is doing, other than buying some cheap junk spokes.  If he was going to take his spokes to some redneck powdercoating joint to have 'em come back twice the diameter, or have the wheels done whole, then that's probably a bad idea, and he should be told about it.  That's all I'm saying.

[grcamna2]

So long as it's the right coating, knock yourself out.  If you expect me to think you know what you're doing in the context of this thread you're nuts.

Andrew,
That's a good point about not increasing the diameter more than a very small amount.

[Lostboy Steve]

Wasn't trying to be offensive really. I just would never buy those junk thai spokes in the first place, the (lack of) quality seems to be pretty well established.  Buy nice or buy it twice- never truer words spoken.

I've got no idea what this dude has done or is doing, other than buying some cheap junk spokes.  If he was going to take his spokes to some redneck powdercoating joint to have 'em come back twice the diameter, or have the wheels done whole, then that's probably a bad idea, and he should be told about it.  That's all I'm saying.

So I assume, you have never made a bad judgement call and purchased something that turned out to be a waste? Your holier than thou attitude sucks. Stop being a #$%*ing dick.

Btw, WHAT THE #$%* IS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT "TARNISHED" ? The original nickle, or whatever it is doesn't shine evenly anymore. That's all. You just jumped to EVERY possible conclusion without having any knowledge of what my exact situation is. You're extremely butthurt and I would appreciate it if you go leave your negative bull#$%* elsewhere.

[Trad]

I'd just buy new quality spokes and have them coated to your chosen colour. I wouldn't mess with the old spokes just for piece of mind; you're already re-lacing the wheels, why not do it the most proper way possible at this point? We've all bought #$%* that turned out to be well.......#$%*. haha

Good luck with it dude.

[Lostboy Steve]

I'd just buy new quality spokes and have them coated to your chosen colour. I wouldn't mess with the old spokes just for piece of mind; you're already re-lacing the wheels, why not do it the most proper way possible at this point? We've all bought #$%* that turned out to be well.......#$%*. haha

Good luck with it dude.

Thank you. The whole point of this thread was to note that I made a mistake. One that hopefully others wont make. I am going to buy new ones anyway. I guess the question is, which metal should I go with. Stainless spokes and stainless nipples? Or raw Steel? I suppose it wont matter. The problem with the "most proper way", is that one could get crazy and order new rims as well. The whole thing could turn into a $1000 modification quite quickly.

[grcamna2]

lostboy,
You're not going to have your original ones coated? I thought that was a good idea 

[andrewk]

Wasn't trying to be offensive really. I just would never buy those junk thai spokes in the first place, the (lack of) quality seems to be pretty well established.  Buy nice or buy it twice- never truer words spoken.

I've got no idea what this dude has done or is doing, other than buying some cheap junk spokes.  If he was going to take his spokes to some redneck powdercoating joint to have 'em come back twice the diameter, or have the wheels done whole, then that's probably a bad idea, and he should be told about it.  That's all I'm saying.

So I assume, you have never made a bad judgement call and purchased something that turned out to be a waste? Your holier than thou attitude sucks. Stop being a #$%*ing dick.

Btw, WHAT THE #$%* IS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT "TARNISHED" ? The original nickle, or whatever it is doesn't shine evenly anymore. That's all. You just jumped to EVERY possible conclusion without having any knowledge of what my exact situation is. You're extremely butthurt and I would appreciate it if you go leave your negative bull#$%* elsewhere.

hahahahaha whatever dude. You're reading way too far into it.  Your cocky fly-off-the-handle-when-someone-doesn't-stroke-me-off attitude sucks too, but we're all pricks, so get over it already.

I just jumped to the necessary conclusions-  dude is surprised his cheap junk spokes broke.  I'm thinking that if you're willing to make that judgement call, then be surprised about it, then maybe <-- Maybe (means yes OR no) some bad shop will sell you a bad product and you'll believe them.  I don't know how much you know, that's the point.  I'm the one NOT making assumptions about the situation, trying to make sure you get the right coating the second go around.  Then you come back like I'm the jerk?  You can piss right on off.

Also, if you read my statements, I never once mentioned concerns with tarnish, so you can get pissy with someone else about that.

[Raul CB750K1]

my 2 cents about spokes. I have a little Suzuki GZ250 cruiser that is my daily commute half of the year. I'm very informed about the GZ250 scene in Spain and there are more than a few cases of broken spokes on the rear tire. I'm talking original, OEM spokes.

I have laced hubs to different rims -to get different size wheels- and bought thai spokes. Chrome spokes. No broken spokes nor chrome peeling after two years.

I bought them from an ebay seller, "terryinbangkok" or something like that. He advertises the spokes by the length, width, etc. Not like "cb350 spoke set". Knowing what size each bike needs is your job, not his.

Long story short, not all the OEM spokes are up to the task, nor all the thai spokes are crap...

[PeWe]

Spoke sets from CMSNL or David Silver.
They do not need to be cheaper for me.

[grcamna2]

I want to say that lots(thats LOTS)of new bike owners never have had their spokes tightened by the dealerships who do the 600 mile service on new bikes.The shops are just "TOO BUSY..." if you know what I mean... I just think lot's of service managers assume(or don't care)that the spokes are fine and can save a few hrs. of time pr. day.
The service guys have to work extra hard and are under lots of pressure to 'pick it up' which I don't think is fair on them. 
They make the most $ selling new bikes at dealerships;usually the service depts. are seen as 'the biggest loss' (which I call bull&*#% !)and because of that normal things like truing and torquing all the spokes get left out.

The reason I mention this is to say that sometimes stock spokes 'get a bad rep.'.... if you know what I mean.I've done a few 600 mile service jobs for owners of bikes when I use to live on an island and had my M/C Repair service,the owner didn't mind that he would lose the warranty on the bike if he had ME do it  & I think it had a lot to do w/ his time and the price of the boat...

Stock spokes are Excellent and should last the lifetime of the bike when initially set-up, trued and torqued to spec.

[Lostboy Steve]

I want to say that lots(thats LOTS)of new bike owners never have had their spokes tightened by the dealerships who do the 600 mile service on new bikes.The shops are just "TOO BUSY..." if you know what I mean... I just think lot's of service managers assume(or don't care)that the spokes are fine and can save a few hrs. of time pr. day.
The service guys have to work extra hard and are under lots of pressure to 'pick it up' which I don't think is fair on them. 
They make the most $ selling new bikes at dealerships;usually the service depts. are seen as 'the biggest loss' (which I call bull&*#% !)and because of that normal things like truing and torquing all the spokes get left out.

The reason I mention this is to say that sometimes stock spokes 'get a bad rep.'.... if you know what I mean.I've done a few 600 mile service jobs for owners of bikes when I use to live on an island and had my M/C Repair service,the owner didn't mind that he would lose the warranty on the bike if he had ME do it  & I think it had a lot to do w/ his time and the price of the boat...

Stock spokes are Excellent and should last the lifetime of the bike when initially set-up, trued and torqued to spec.

My buddy on a 2013 Softail Deluxe had a case of loose spokes on the same ride. Someone was talking about a possible recall on the newer models because the spokes where known to fail all together. I dont know if theres any truth to this. However, to your point, maybe they just never get tightened. Anyway, to answer your question, I have no problem coating the original ones. The only reason I'm hesitant is because I'm thinking of changing rim sizes, so if thats the case I'll have to order a shorter set.

[grcamna2]

I want to say that lots(thats LOTS)of new bike owners never have had their spokes tightened by the dealerships who do the 600 mile service on new bikes.The shops are just "TOO BUSY..." if you know what I mean... I just think lot's of service managers assume(or don't care)that the spokes are fine and can save a few hrs. of time pr. day.
The service guys have to work extra hard and are under lots of pressure to 'pick it up' which I don't think is fair on them. 
They make the most $ selling new bikes at dealerships;usually the service depts. are seen as 'the biggest loss' (which I call bull&*#% !)and because of that normal things like truing and torquing all the spokes get left out.

The reason I mention this is to say that sometimes stock spokes 'get a bad rep.'.... if you know what I mean.I've done a few 600 mile service jobs for owners of bikes when I use to live on an island and had my M/C Repair service,the owner didn't mind that he would lose the warranty on the bike if he had ME do it  & I think it had a lot to do w/ his time and the price of the boat...

Stock spokes are Excellent and should last the lifetime of the bike when initially set-up, trued and torqued to spec.

My buddy on a 2013 Softail Deluxe had a case of loose spokes on the same ride. Someone was talking about a possible recall on the newer models because the spokes where known to fail all together. I dont know if theres any truth to this. However, to your point, maybe they just never get tightened. Anyway, to answer your question, I have no problem coating the original ones. The only reason I'm hesitant is because I'm thinking of changing rim sizes, so if thats the case I'll have to order a shorter set.

I hear you 

[Raul CB750K1]

I can't see spokes breaking for being too loose. Just the other way round; I can see spokes breaking for being overtightened and thus being subject to a force of traction beyond its breaking point.

say you have a perfectly trued wheel. Say you loosen each nipple by one turn. the sum of forces still equals to 0, the hub is perfectly centered, but every spoke has less tension than before.

Now say that you put the wheel under extreme acceleration, weight or braking. In any case, the force tends to stretch some spokes, and to bend some others. The latter will never break. The former should have less chances to break now as the nipples are one turn on the loose side.

Let's get to the extreme. Say that we tighten the spokes to the very limit, to the point that each one is in the verge of breaking. The wheel will be perfectly centered, but any force that breaks the balance of forces -such as braking- will cause at least one spoke to break.


I don't get paranoid about spoke tension. When I lace my wheels, once they are trued I go one by one and give a little tightening to any loose spokes, and call it a day. Spokes will stretch with use and will loosen but the only thing that could happen because of that is that your wheel gets out of true, not that the spokes will have more chances to break.


At least that's the way I see it.

[grcamna2]

I agree that spokes can break because of being overtightened and I've done that to some used bicycle spokes in the past when I was learning.
I was saying that to do it correctly is to tighten all the spokes (after trueing the wheel)to a similar tension as specified to the recommended manufacturers torque spec. as far as OEM spokes go.
I know you can tighten Buchanan's SS spokes a bit more considering  the diameter that they are for your application. When working on used spokes I don't tighten as much as new ones. I don't know what the recommended torque specs are for those Tiawanese spokes...but I know I would not tighten them as much as an OEM spoke;I like the quality of Vintage OE Honda spokes