Topic: 550 - NO SPARK

[Anton]

Hey guys,

So after a looong Fall/Winter/Spring of rebuilding my CB550F I finally got everthing tied together the other day and was hoping to start my bike up for the first time. And just my luck none of the plugs have  spark .

The members of this forum is the only reason I have been able to make it this far (with absolutely no experience with motorcycles at all). I feel like I'm soo close, but also very lost as to what to do next. I'm hoping someone can walk me through this and help me get this bike on the damn road already.

So like I said none of the plugs have spark. All the electrical is working that I can see. I am running Pamco electronic ignition, some aftermarket coils from DCC -(http://www.dimecitycycles.com/vintage-cafe-racer-caferacer-bobber-brat-chopper-custom-motorcycle-electronic-ignition-parts-universal-12-volt-ignition-coil-si-165-2.html). and NGK Wires and Caps.

I also tried to set the timing with a 12V test lamp, wasn't getting anywhere with that either

I dint really know what other information I can give, any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[cameron]

I assume you have new plugs, yes?

Start from the battery.
Post your voltage.

Then check voltage at the spark plug WIRES. Yes? No?
If yes, how much? If no. back up. Keep backing up till you find the broken thing.

If you are sending good voltage to a good spark plug, it must spark, right?

[pamcopete]

You will not see any voltage at the plug wires with a dual output coil. Check for battery voltage on the red wires going to each of the sensors with the key and kill switch on. You should also have battery voltage at each coil as well just like it was with points. Some people make the mistake of using the coil power wire to power the PAMCO forgetting that the coil still needs power. Of course, check your fuses as well. Also, because you say you are new to motorcycles, just a reminder that you only get spark at the plugs when the engine is turning over or running.

Start with the slots in the plate at their mid point. That will be close enough to get the engine started, but you must use a timing light to set the timing. You can use the timing light even when you are attempting to start the engine to show if you are getting spark.

[Anton]

Hey Pete,

So just to clarify, how exactly do I check for voltage at the red wires. I have a multimeter, still not exactly sure how to use the thing. I have o set to DC and put the red lead to the red wire and the black lead to bare metal on the frame? Not getting any reading that way. Sorry for my ignorance, but electronics is just not my game.

[pamcopete]

Hey Pete,

So just to clarify, how exactly do I check for voltage at the red wires. I have a multimeter, still not exactly sure how to use the thing. I have o set to DC and put the red lead to the red wire and the black lead to bare metal on the frame? Not getting any reading that way. Sorry for my ignorance, but electronics is just not my game.

The red wire going to the PAMCO sensors should be connected to a source of switched battery. Switched meaning that there is only power there when the key is on.

You can get this switched battery directly from the wire that goes to the coils that has switched power, so use your meter to check for power on one of the terminals on the coils. When you find that, then connect the red wires from the PAMCO to the same coil terminal with the wire coming from the source of power, not the terminal that used to go to the points. The other coil terminal that used to go to the points now goes to the green wire to the PAMCO.

[Anton]

Iv got the green wires going to one terminal on each of the coils. Iv got both red wires joined together and connected to the kill switch
Main wire and Iv got two more wires going from the coil connection from the harness to the other terminal on eAch of the coils.

Now if I put the red lead from my mulitmeter to one of the coil terminals and the black lead to the negative battery terminal should I get some kind of reading ? Nothing is coming up..

Voltage from my battery is reading 13.1

[DavePhipps]

Have you checked for continuity at the kill switch?

[Anton]

Have you checked for continuity at the kill switch?

Yes I have continuity at the kill switch

[Anton]

Anton - you're checking the switched power with the key "on", right?

Yes checking power with the key on Cal

[Anton]

All other electrical components at working

[Stev-o]

How are you checking for spark?   You have plugs out of the engine, connected to the plug wire, resting on the cyl head and hitting the starter button?

[pamcopete]

Did you check the fuses? Are you getting +12 on the red wires that come directly from the kill switch? There is something very basic here that you are not seeing. Take a deep breath and another look at the wiring. It's going to be something really simple.

[Anton]

How are you checking for spark?   You have plugs out of the engine, connected to the plug wire, resting on the cyl head and hitting the starter button?

Yes but no start button, just kicking over. An I only have one plug out

[Anton]

Did you check the fuses? Are you getting +12 on the red wires that come directly from the kill switch? There is something very basic here that you are not seeing. Take a deep breath and another look at the wiring. It's going to be something really simple.

So I just realized I had no power going to the kill switch.

From my left hand controls I have two kill switch wires. White and blue(kill switch main) with a female and a male connections and a black and white (kill switch ground) with the same two connections.

Origianlly I had the main wire from the switch connected to the kill switch connection from the harness and the kill switch ground connected to the ground wire from th harness. But I need power into the kill switch to power the coils right? So I took the male connector from the blue/white(kill switch main) and plugged it I to the power wire from The harness and connected the red wire from the Pamco unit to a power connection from the harness as well, turned on the power and blew a fuse...

What am I missing?

[Anton]

Is the kill switch a ground switch like the neutral oil pressure switches?
Should I have the kill switch main wire grounded and the kill switch ground wire plugged into the kill switch wire from the harness?

[Anton]

Have blown 5 fuses now, any thoughts guys?

[goldarrow]

Get a test lamp http://m.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?q=12v+test+lamp

[Anton]

Never mind, got it!

Thanks for all the input guys!

[Stev-o]

Never mind, got it!

What was it?    Plz post the solution for others to use this info in the future. 

[pamcopete]

Never mind, got it!

Thanks for all the input guys!

Anton...Anton...wait wait! Don't go away! We are all wondering what it was and how you fixed it. Others may have a similar problem, so you could help by sharing your experience.

[Anton]

So like I said in an earlier post, I realized I didn't have any power going to the coils. After trying many different wiring configurations with the kill switch wires (main and ground), power wire from the harness and the red wires from the unit and about 6 or 7 blown fuses, I got an email from my saviour Matt from Sparckmoto (who I had emailed earlier in the day but hadn't heard back from). He had built me the new wiring harness and has offered some of the best tech support/customer service I have ever experienced in my life (highly recommended if your looking for some brand new wires for your bike, and he'll customize it to exactly what you want).

Anyway, he suggested trying the Blue/white wires (kill switch main) from my left hand controls connected to the power wire from my harness and the red wires from the PAMCO unit tied into that and the black/white wires (kill switch ground) to the coils. BINGO we have spark!

So f*#^kin easy right??

Now it was time to start her up, I kicked her over a few times and i was just getting backfires every other kick with some flames out the exhaust , didn't sound like she was going to go at all. So I switched the green wires at the coils coming from the Pamco unit and after a few kicks she started up! only ran for about 5 seconds and backfired again and shut down, it was pretty late at this point and sounded like there was a shootout  in the garage so I left it at that, I was just soo happy to hear some life out of her after this long! Back at it again today!

[Anton]

Now just wondering about setting the timing . I did do a slight top end rebuild, the cylinder bores have been honed and new rings. Iv been doing a lot of reading about proper break in procedures and from what I gather I shouldnt really let it idle for any period of time, sooo how do I work around this to get the timing right?

[Deltarider]

Do it the static way as described in the manual.

[Anton]

Do it the static way as described in the manual.

And then just wait until after I get a few hundred miles on her to set with timing light?

[Deltarider]

Others may comment on break-in procedure. I have no experience with that. 

[pamcopete]

Now just wondering about setting the timing . I did do a slight top end rebuild, the cylinder bores have been honed and new rings. Iv been doing a lot of reading about proper break in procedures and from what I gather I shouldnt really let it idle for any period of time, sooo how do I work around this to get the timing right?

Put a giant fan in front of the engine. It doesn't take that long to set the timing. Start with the plate at the mid point for the upper slot. That is very close to correct timing. Also, now that you have the primary wiring sorted out, double check that you have cylinders 1 - 4 connected to one of the coils and cylinders 2 - 3 connected to the other coil.

[Anton]

I thought I had sorted that out when I reversed the way I originally had the green wires going to the coils?

[Stev-o]

I thought I had sorted that out when I reversed the way I originally had the green wires going to the coils?

I believe he means at the spark plugs.

[Anton]

Ahh jeeze I understand. I had wires from one coil going to 1 and 2, and 3 and 4 on the other coil.

Thanks for that.

 

[Stev-o]

Ahh jeeze I understand. I had wires from one coil going to 1 and 2, and 3 and 4 on the other coil.

 

That could be your timing issue. 

[Anton]

Yup that solved it, starts up first kick, no back fire!

now just have to figure out why the oil light isnt turning off while its running . I just want to ride it already!!

[pamcopete]

Yup that solved it, starts up first kick, no back fire!

now just have to figure out why the oil light isnt turning off while its running . I just want to ride it already!!

Did you add some oil after you did the overhaul?

Being as your last issue was with the new wiring harness, that is the first place I would look. Remove the wire from the oil pressure switch and see if the light goes out. If it does, then the problem is either no oil or a bad oil pressure switch. If the light does not go out when you remove the wire from the oil pressure switch, then it's the wiring. In either case, do not run the engine for more than a few seconds until you fix the problem.

[Anton]

Yea she's topped up with oil, so that light should turn off within the first few seconds of having the motor running?

[Anton]

Got it! the switch wasnt screwed down all the way.

Thanks for walking me through this guys, I really appreciate it.

I have a few loose ends to tie up and I think shes ready to roll sometime this week. Keeping my fingers crossed .

Ill post some photos when she rolling.

Thanks again!

[Stev-o]

good news. You are on your way, keep us posted.

[pamcopete]

Got it! the switch wasnt screwed down all the way.

Thanks for walking me through this guys, I really appreciate it.

I have a few loose ends to tie up and I think shes ready to roll sometime this week. Keeping my fingers crossed .

Ill post some photos when she rolling.

Thanks again!

Before you go on that maiden ride, I suggest that you check around town for a tow truck company who has experience retrieving motorcycles. Get their rates and range of operation and stay in that zone. Just a thought, but a lot can go wrong with that first ride after all the work you have done to the bike. And, stay off of the Lions Gate bridge for a few days until all the bugs are fixed!