Author Topic: Carb sync stix- recommended?  (Read 2767 times)

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Offline stnick

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Carb sync stix- recommended?
« on: June 18, 2014, 06:32:08 AM »
With a K2,K3,K6 and 1100F in my stable, it's time to buy a carb sync set-up. Please recommend your favs and tell me a little bit about why... (extended adapters,metal gages, plastic box to store in, etc)
Here's one I'm considering: Also, if you know the model's digits that would be a bonus!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/180695911294?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

All the Best!
Nick

Offline lucky

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Re: Carb sync stix- recommended?
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2014, 08:04:17 AM »
I would not buy the vacuum gauges that are on that link you posted.
Here is why.

One of the problems is that the fluid gets bubbles in it and then it is impossible to read correctly.
IF you rev the engine a little too much the fluid can get sucked into the engine.

To buy additional fluid is expensive and you must take all of the fluid out of it to replace the proper fluid level.

Storing this device is difficult. You cannot lay it down or it will get bubbles in the fluid.

Before each sync you must calibrate the device and than means hooking and unhooking the rubber tubes and caps. Twice!

The brass tubes that screw into the vacuum ports are extremely fragile and to buy new ones is expensive. Even if you think you ARE very careful you can break one of these brass tubes. IF you just bump your body near one of the rubber hoses near the brass tubes, the brass tube can get broken because the tube is so thin where the threads are cut on the bras tube.

Buy the gauges that are the dial type gauges and then buy some decent quality rubber hoses for it. You can store them easy and not worry about lost fluid,bubbles .etc.,.

The dial gauges are much easier to use and EASY to read.

Find out the hard way or find out the easy way. Your choice.
Motion Pro fluid type=$100
Dial type gauges with backing plate and vacuum adjusters. $65
« Last Edit: June 18, 2014, 10:21:16 AM by lucky »

Offline Blackhole

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Re: Carb sync stix- recommended?
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2014, 08:11:53 AM »
Where is the gauge in those pictures :)

Offline RJ CB450

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Re: Carb sync stix- recommended?
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2014, 08:34:25 AM »
A gauge setup is most expensive, but most accurate.  Can also be used to inspect syncro through rev range.  Good for finding vacuum leaks and maximizing performance tuning.

Myself, I use the syncro from motion pro.  Is a calibratable capillary tube setup.  Easy to use and easy to replace fluid if needed.  But set at idle only.  Worked very well on my CV carbs and she is super smooth through the rev range.  Even with the glasspacks.

Lots of guys build theirs.  But I like accuracy.  Large tubes make it near impossible to see the pulses because of slow response.  Also ensuring calibration a bit more difficult.  I actually use many motion pro tools.  Good pricing, work well.  I actually have a tool box set up for sole use of carb tuning.
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Offline KC_Northstar

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Re: Carb sync stix- recommended?
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2014, 08:42:30 AM »
I have a Morgan Carb tune.  compact, accurate and easy to use.

http://www.carbtune.co.uk/c.com/


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Offline Bodi

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Re: Carb sync stix- recommended?
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2014, 09:08:19 AM »
I've never tried the new carb-stix. I had a mercury set that worked great and didn't have the possibility of sucking up the fluid - mercury is too heavy for that. I lost the thing in a move, or left it behind.
A full vacuum lifts mercury 27 inches, a manageable size instrument (14 inches or so high) is possible that won't suck out with the maximum vacuum the engine can produce. For water full vacuum lifts around 30 feet, about 15 feet would handle any engine vacuum. Still impractical in any garage or workshop I know. I suppose the new carbstix use some heaver-than-water fluid but nothing practical comes close to mercury.
I now have the Morgan carbtune and it also works great. It's not particularly delicate and can be packed away without any spillage worries. I wondered about accuracy but with all four tubes hooked to a vacuum cleaner they all read almost exactly the same.
Gauges are generally excellent but fairly expensive, delicate, and more bulky than the Morgan.
There are homebrew things that measure vacuum, either directly or through some comparison scheme. The problem with a direct reading vacuum manometer and water based fluid is that the mild idle vacuum is OK but blipping the throttle causes quite high vacuum (on run down from higher rpm) that sucks the fluid into the engine. That's not usually such a problem but then you have to refill the tubing. And they always seem to be quite a large construction that has to stay out filledl somewhere or be drained and put away.
The comparison ones... balancing the carbs is hard enough without having to set up and interpret the ones I have looked into. Interesting idea but it seems like a solution looking for a problem.
You save at least a hundred bucks doing each sync yourself and you get to know it was done right (or not, but at least you know!). Invest in a decent tool.

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Carb sync stix- recommended?
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2014, 10:01:28 AM »
I made my own and I must have really messed it up because I couldn't get a sync. I just bought one of these motion pro sync pros off eBay for $70 free shipping and it works very well. And I have no experience with syncing.

Regarding Lucky's comments...the brass adapters you can get for $10 for the set of four if you happen to break them. I hadn't noticed that they're fragile but that's me. Don't be a gorilla and you'll be fine.

As long as you read the instructions (and there's a YouTube video from Motion Pro on exactly how to use them) it's easy to calibrate and I had no close calls with sucking up the fluid. Even when revved to 5k rpm. Now, I only have a 550 so your bikes will make much more vacuum. I can't comment on that part. It may be more of a risk, but people use them without problem.

Regarding the fluid getting bubbles...the fluid is not viscous at all so the bubbles are easy to coax out with some flicking of the finger, but I have to say that I only got one TINY bubble in it so far from when it was shipped and I just held it upright, flicked it and it was perfect. Zero bubbles so far even after having it horizontal. And it says in the manual that you can store it in any orientation except upside down.

Yes, you have to calibrate it. Takes a couple minutes but it didn't bother me.

One problem is that this manometer doesn't actually measure in cm Hg or any actual measurement. The lines are just for a visual way to line each column up to each other.

All in all, everyone here has more experience than I do with syncing and sync tools so I'd probably heed their advice over mine. But I bought this tool without fretting and I'm very happy.

And plus...the girl in the picture comes with it. Mine's out chopping wood and digging holes...but I don't hear chopping or digging right now so I have to go investigate.


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1978 Honda CB550K

Offline lucky

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Re: Carb sync stix- recommended?
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2014, 10:20:23 AM »
A gauge setup is most expensive, but most accurate.  Can also be used to inspect syncro through rev range.  Good for finding vacuum leaks and maximizing performance tuning.

Myself, I use the syncro from motion pro.  Is a calibratable capillary tube setup.  Easy to use and easy to replace fluid if needed.  But set at idle only.  Worked very well on my CV carbs and she is super smooth through the rev range.  Even with the glasspacks.

Lots of guys build theirs.  But I like accuracy.  Large tubes make it near impossible to see the pulses because of slow response.  Also ensuring calibration a bit more difficult.  I actually use many motion pro tools.  Good pricing, work well.  I actually have a tool box set up for sole use of carb tuning.

"Most accurate"??? How did you prove that?
And does it even matter.
All you are doing is getting the idle to be the same on all carbs.

Offline flybox1

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Re: Carb sync stix- recommended?
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2014, 10:24:07 AM »
ive used the morgan carbtune, and I have the dial setup pictured above.
they both do a good job when properly calibrated.
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Offline Muckinfuss

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Re: Carb sync stix- recommended?
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2014, 11:14:08 AM »
I still have my original set I bought from Honda back in 1970.....and I notice one difference in the photos from Lucky and the OP.....the ones I use have dampening valves between the vacuum pipes and the gauges that adjust the needle travel so it's steady rather than waving all over the gauge.  How is that accomplished in the newer tools?  or are there dampeners just not in the pics?
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Offline RJ CB450

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Re: Carb sync stix- recommended?
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2014, 02:11:33 PM »

"Most accurate"??? How did you prove that?
And does it even matter.
All you are doing is getting the idle to be the same on all carbs.

It all depends on the gauges you get and their rated accuracy.  If I was a top end shop building full on racing engines, I could easily spend 3+ grand on a set of say ashcroft gauges guaranteed to 0.25% plus appropriate fittings and mountings.  I would also be doing tunings all the way through the rev ranges because stable at idle might not mean stable at 6000+

Course with modern tech, I would probably build a data logging setup to monitor and combine it with a dyno and other instrumentation such as A/F metering, etc so that I could even monitor the pulses themselves.

The fluid type, such as the motion pro works by having the reservoir act as a counter vacuum.  The calibration screw is nothing more than a piston.  A restrictor in the hose keeps it readable.  If I wanted a highly accurate and readable fluid type, it would end up being open atmosphere with a common reservoir with a low density fluid.  This would set the head pressure all the same.  Then, I would run fine tube up a wall, ideally rigid plastic or glass tube.  Each tube would have a pair or sliders that would mark pulse high and pulse low.  More sliders or recording camera to record various rpms.

On my 650, I adjusted the airbox boots to make the carbs syncronous at 4500.
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Re: Carb sync stix- recommended?
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2014, 01:10:24 AM »
Where is the gauge in those pictures :)

I can't see them either.  ;D

Offline KRONUS0100

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Re: Carb sync stix- recommended?
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2014, 05:06:48 AM »
http://www.z1enterprises.com/ItemDetails.aspx?itemDescription=Vacuum+Gauge+Set&item=KL35-3019

this is the set im looking to buy to replace the basic dial guages i had that i think are busted
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Offline jonda500

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Re: Carb sync stix- recommended?
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2014, 07:08:45 AM »
I got these ones off ebay for $100 and they do the job fine. They are cheaply made - you screw off the plastic lenses off the guages to zero them (actually doesn't have to be zero, I just adjusted them to make all the needles point to the same mark). Note- before hooking up the tubes (you have to cut each one to put its air bleed in the circuit) screw all the plastic air bleed adjusters all the way in(then from this point adjust them to minimize needle flutter once you have the engine idling)...or they can fall out whilst you are trying to put the tubes on and you can spend long time finding the *$#@^%*ing things!
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Offline Muckinfuss

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Re: Carb sync stix- recommended?
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2014, 07:30:07 AM »
+1 on the Z1 set.  Looks almost identical to the original Honda 'tool' and the dampeners are similar.
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Offline lucky

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Re: Carb sync stix- recommended?
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2014, 07:38:48 AM »
I still have my original set I bought from Honda back in 1970.....and I notice one difference in the photos from Lucky and the OP.....the ones I use have dampening valves between the vacuum pipes and the gauges that adjust the needle travel so it's steady rather than waving all over the gauge.  How is that accomplished in the newer tools?  or are there dampeners just not in the pics?

The ones shown in the photo DO come with dampening valves.
It just was not shown in that photo.

Offline PeWe

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Re: Carb sync stix- recommended?
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2014, 12:38:55 PM »
Nice commercial  :P
I like the pressurized ones... not much vacuum there, Smith Familiy. Really well designed  :o
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