Author Topic: Used oil analysis  (Read 3026 times)

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Offline bwaller

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Used oil analysis
« on: June 18, 2014, 03:48:09 PM »
This is not your regular oil thread, hopefully. Take this for what it's worth, I feel it was worth the few bucks I spent.

I have been curious about this two different issues, whether or not the oil I choose to use was providing adequate lubrication for the crank plain bearings and transmission. Secondly was the ZDDPlus I use actually bumping up the Zn & P levels in the oil. ZDDPlus recommend adding 4oz per 4-5 litre oil change. My engine oil capacity is 4 litres and I add half what they recommend or 2oz.

We both use Castrol 4T 10W40 and change oil after every race weekend. My son's FZR400 only holds 2 litres. These are great little engines that rev to 14K, but I know several guys who have blown these and from what I understand often crank bearing failure is the cause. Blackstone mentioned the lead level being above average, possibly bearing wear. On the other hand their averages are not likely built on racing engines so probably not anything to be worried about.   

Here are two different analysis, one for my CB550, one for my sons FZR400. Again the CB has ZDDPLus in the mix, but the FZR does not. I use a 50% mix of C12 leaded race gas so this is the reason for the high lead content. I guessed the FZR had about 6-7 racing hours, the CB 3-4 hours.  The FZR runs on straight pump gas.

In the CB it's obvious the ZDDPlus does what it claims. I'm afraid because of the leaded fuel though I don't get much of an answer on bearing wear. In the FZR the Castrol looks good too. It can be said it's not much of a test with so few hours, but these are very hard hours.






 

Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Re: Used oil analysis
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2014, 06:21:59 PM »
Yeh, TBN is good. Zinc works well. Your numbers look good on both, what do they charge? Bill
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Offline MRieck

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Re: Used oil analysis
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2014, 06:52:09 PM »
I use ZDDP in my engines and highly recommend it for rocker arm engines. Let the games begin. ;D
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Offline bwaller

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Re: Used oil analysis
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2014, 08:11:38 PM »
I'm kind of guy that needs to see things in black & white. Now I know this ZDDPlus works Mike. If any games begin the thread will self destruct, promise. Bill it's $25/sample and they had results to me in 24hrs.

Offline turboguzzi

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Re: Used oil analysis
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2014, 12:09:49 AM »
gee, brent, not an oil thread but just as controversial subject....

one thing to bear in mind is that with half the oil capacity, the fzr is bound to have much worse results than the CB no?

Offline bwaller

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Re: Used oil analysis
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2014, 04:24:56 AM »
gee, brent, not an oil thread but just as controversial subject....

one thing to bear in mind is that with half the oil capacity, the fzr is bound to have much worse results than the CB no?
[/b]

This is part of my curiosity as well Yoss. We tore it apart when Tyler bought the bike but reassembled "as is" because it all looked good. He gets faster & faster and running a measly 2L makes me nervous. It appears to me the result is quite positive!

I'm not dangling a carrot for controversy with this. I'm more confident now than I was before because of the results. I thought people might be interested.

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Used oil analysis
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2014, 04:37:33 AM »
I thought people might be interested.

Absolutely, another ZDDP advocate here... ;)
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Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: Used oil analysis
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2014, 05:27:59 AM »
This thread is not your normal oil thread and will not be deleted but it will be if people resort to being silly.

Brent did ask me to remove it but I personally think it is worthy of a read, if you don't think so, just keep it to yourself and no arguing.

Also I would like to wish young Brent a very HAPPY BIRTHDAY.  ;D

Sam. ;)
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Offline Jim F

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Re: Used oil analysis
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2014, 11:48:53 AM »
excuse my ignorance here but what is ZZDPlus?
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Offline dusterdude

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Re: Used oil analysis
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2014, 12:28:52 PM »
Zinc


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Offline turboguzzi

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Re: Used oil analysis
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2014, 01:48:27 PM »
brent, can you build the fzr a sump spacer plate? was often done in big guzzis to get more capacity

Offline bear

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Re: Used oil analysis
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2014, 06:50:33 PM »


Also I would like to wish young Brent a very HAPPY BIRTHDAY.  ;D

Sam. ;)


HAPPY BIRTHDAY MATE!
21 again? ;)

Cheers,
Brian
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Used oil analysis
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2014, 06:51:21 PM »
Happy birthday Brent... ;)
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Offline bwaller

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Re: Used oil analysis
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2014, 07:56:42 PM »
Thanks guys. Some days I still feel like 21, but they're fewer & farther between!

Jim, besides zinc ZDDP also contains phosphorus. The short story is that these two elements provide a lubrication layer that is of importance for metal to metal contact surfaces (cam/rocker arm as an example). Naturally there are fewer flat pad rocker arms in use today, plus apparently catalytic converters and zinc/phosphorus don't get along so modern oils don't contain as much. It was Mike that suggested it to me originally and it's about the only additive that makes sense to me.

TG, good idea on the sump spacer. I know the exhaust is tight, but I'll have a look. I think an extra litre would be helpful.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2014, 08:00:20 PM by bwaller »

Offline Jim F

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Re: Used oil analysis
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2014, 07:34:37 AM »
Yes and if I remember it was Mike R that suggested that I use Brad Penn because
 of the zinc content for my  plain bearing turbo (ATP)
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Offline Tintop

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Re: Used oil analysis
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2014, 08:37:01 PM »
Mike gave me some ZDDPlus, when we put the sidecar engine together.  Like you I'm using about a 1/2 bottle / oil change (race weekend).  Do you have a Canadian source Brent??
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Offline bear

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Re: Used oil analysis
« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2014, 12:46:37 AM »
Hmm.........sounds like I should be looking into this product as well.

Cheers,
Brian
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Offline bwaller

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Re: Used oil analysis
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2014, 04:35:50 AM »
Mike gave me some ZDDPlus, when we put the sidecar engine together.  Like you I'm using about a 1/2 bottle / oil change (race weekend).  Do you have a Canadian source Brent??

No I just check Ebay & Amazon for the cheapest price when I need any.

Offline jerry h

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Re: Used oil analysis
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2014, 11:41:54 PM »
Hi Brent,
Thanks for posting your test results.  I've just started using it in my stock K2, and I could swear the shifting has improved dramatically.  Nice to see proof that it actually is raising the zinc and phosphorus levels.
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Offline Eddie

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Re: Used oil analysis
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2014, 05:43:44 AM »
Can it be added to synthetic ?  Also, Eastwood Co. has ZDDP fyi