Author Topic: To pod or not to pod!  (Read 7916 times)

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Offline zstoldt

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To pod or not to pod!
« on: June 18, 2014, 07:35:53 PM »
Hey guys, new member here.

I bought this CB750 and I decided I like it, so I invested in some K&N pod filters. When I bought it and drove it home, it only had two pods on it and the other two carbs were open.

Will I absolutely have to jet the carbs when I put on the new filters or does that depend on how well the bike runs with increased air flow?

Thanks, Zak

I'm new to working on bikes so feel free to educate me!

Here are the pods I purchased: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000E7H3ZY/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Also, there is gasoline leaking out of the two carbs that don't have filters on them. Is this normal or is it a bad sign? What could be wrong?

« Last Edit: June 18, 2014, 07:37:31 PM by zstoldt »
-Zak

Offline RJ CB450

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Re: To pod or not to pod!
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2014, 07:41:12 PM »
Pods.  Jetting is the stopgap fix.  Problem is you lose laminar flow through the carbs and mess up the air pulses causing fuel to not draw in correctly.  99% of the time you will have to re-jet to get it to run, but never as good as the airbox if you go straight pods.  Ideally, if the filters meet your CFM per cylinder need, then you should be able to run factory jets if you put proper runners between the filter and the carb.

Essentially think of it like this.  Cylinder is drawing same volume of air, therefore it needs same volume of fuel.  The rejetting is so instead of a smooth fuel draw, you drag in big globs of gas in burps.

Personally something I am fully intent on doing, but if you have time, try yourself is get correct diameter aluminum tubing and some couplers.  Put them on carb, about equal length of the factory box runners.  Radius the filter side of tubes and then put filters on them.  If feeling frisky for fab, you want the heat shield or else the inner carbs will draw in lots of hot air.

(edit, going to grab some pics so it is more apparent)
« Last Edit: June 18, 2014, 07:43:30 PM by RJ CB450 »
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Offline RJ CB450

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Re: To pod or not to pod!
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2014, 07:57:42 PM »
Okie, pics.  Note the intake on the open carbs.  All square.  As air rushes in, much like air say going over the back of a semi, you get vorticies.  There isn't the proper shape or length to stabilize the air.



Now if you look at the standard high performance replacements, note the shape of the air intake.  They are gradually radiused to ensure smooth flow.  Aftermarket, they are velocity stacks when bolted on.



Now the wierd part of the market that I find is that K&N or aftermarket don't sell velocity stacks for their pods....  There are a few people who make them independently for other bikes, but nothing I have seen for the old stuff.  Not that hard either with modern CNC laythes.....

Now one big difference between bikes and cars is that bikes have the one carb per cylinder causing intake pulses.  Air has inertia so the length allows air movement even when piston is not on an intake stroke either from velocity, or vacuum through the carb.  A car that isn't I/R has all the intakes drawing through common carbs which creates a constant and smooth airflow.
74 CB450 K7 Supersport, 82 CB650sc Nighthawk, 1982 CBX 1000, 2015 Tiger XCx.... And some ol minibike with a 5hp Briggs.

Offline scottly

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Re: To pod or not to pod!
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2014, 08:12:42 PM »
A car that isn't I/R has all the intakes drawing through common carbs which creates a constant and smooth airflow.
Huh??? Fuel is heavier that air and doesn't travel as well as air around corners, which most car manifolds have lots of.
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Offline Stev-o

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Re: To pod or not to pod!
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2014, 08:15:54 PM »


Will I absolutely have to jet the carbs when I put on the new filters...


What size jets do you currently have?
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Offline zstoldt

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Re: To pod or not to pod!
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2014, 08:19:07 PM »


Will I absolutely have to jet the carbs when I put on the new filters...


What size jets do you currently have?

I'm not sure what size my jets are or how to tell. Sorry for my complete lack of knowledge...

I know where the jets are, but I don't know how to tell what size they are. Do I need to remove my carbs and open them up to tell?

Thanks!
-Zak

Offline RJ CB450

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Re: To pod or not to pod!
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2014, 08:22:11 PM »

Huh??? Fuel is heavier that air and doesn't travel as well as air around corners, which most car manifolds have lots of.
[/quote]

Which is why on most of the old v8s, the outside cylinders ran leaner than inside.  That is why dual quads, or six packs are better for high performance.  Mmm.... high rise dual holley 640s on tunnel ram....

Well, back to topic, the happenings after the carburetor matters not.  But the air draw through the carburetor is what matters in this discussion.  When you have multiple pulses in sequence, you end up with a smooth flow.  Whether it is water, air or an AC->DC rectifier.  Because our motorcycles have I/R carburetors, we get pulses.  Can see it when syncronizing carbs if you have a sensitive setup.
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Offline RJ CB450

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Re: To pod or not to pod!
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2014, 08:26:09 PM »

I'm not sure what size my jets are or how to tell. Sorry for my complete lack of knowledge...

I know where the jets are, but I don't know how to tell what size they are. Do I need to remove my carbs and open them up to tell?

Thanks!

Usually they have the number stamped on them, but not always...

Now, I don't know what your carbs are like since I only have CV carbed bikes.  But mine are all accessible through the float bowls.  Toughest part is if the screws are glued in or can get a driver there.  Might need a carb adjustment driver.  That is a driver that has a geared end at like 90 degrees so you can get into tight places.  The JIS crosshead screws are a pain in the arse and I needed to use an impact driver to get mine out.
74 CB450 K7 Supersport, 82 CB650sc Nighthawk, 1982 CBX 1000, 2015 Tiger XCx.... And some ol minibike with a 5hp Briggs.

Offline Stev-o

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Re: To pod or not to pod!
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2014, 08:31:47 PM »
There should be a number on it, such as this...





Not sure what RB is talking about, I use a stubby screwdriver.
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Offline scottly

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Re: To pod or not to pod!
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2014, 08:39:40 PM »

Well, back to topic, the happenings after the carburetor matters not.
Bull#$%*!!! What happens BEFORE the venturi matters not, or very little, with regards to "ram" tuning. Any pressure wave is reflected at the first obstruction on the path back from the intake valve to the carburetor, which will be the venturi in this case.
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Offline Stev-o

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Re: To pod or not to pod!
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2014, 08:55:46 PM »


Essentially think of it like this.  Cylinder is drawing same volume of air, therefore it needs same volume of fuel. 


What? This does not make sense.  Essentially. 
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Offline zstoldt

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Re: To pod or not to pod!
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2014, 09:21:53 PM »
Thanks for all the answers guys!

I bought a nifty screw driver that can bend sideways!

I am supposed to get the pods tomorrow, so should I put them on right away and see how it runs or should I be doing something else first?

I'll post some more pictures tomorrow when there is daylight in Indiana.

-Zak
-Zak

Offline scottly

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Re: To pod or not to pod!
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2014, 09:36:12 PM »
Zak, just put them on and see how the bike runs. Pull a spark plug and see if it's black or white: black and sooty=too much fuel, bone white=too little fuel.
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Offline zstoldt

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Re: To pod or not to pod!
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2014, 09:39:55 PM »
Zak, just put them on and see how the bike runs. Pull a spark plug and see if it's black or white: black and sooty=too much fuel, bone white=too little fuel.

Okay, thanks Scottly!
-Zak

Offline RJ CB450

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Re: To pod or not to pod!
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2014, 10:17:05 PM »
First of zstoldt, sorry to bring debate into your thread.  Scottly says true.  Start with trying it out.  But at the same time, I have never seen a direct to stock carb pod setup regardless of re-jetting that actually ran proper.  Lots of people can get them working, but working is not running.  It is interesting because in my vintage car groups, people run IR sidedraft webers all the time.  And nobody would dare run without their stacks.  It simply never works.  But with vintage bikes, outside of the race built and mesh over velocity stacks, I never see people with their horns and pods....

Bull#$%*!!! What happens BEFORE the venturi matters not, or very little, with regards to "ram" tuning. Any pressure wave is reflected at the first obstruction on the path back from the intake valve to the carburetor, which will be the venturi in this case.

I never said ram tuning doesnt matter.  It doesn't matter in this topic. Removing the airbox and their runners, then replacing them with pods affects airflow into the carb.  Thereby disrupting the whole system.  The physical properties of the ram had not changed.  Which carries into the second quote.

What? This does not make sense.  Essentially.

Makes perfect sense.  An engine is an air pump.  Plain and simple.  It's rotational speed is governed by nothing more than power vs load.  Engine is 750cc, it will draw in 750cc of air.  Depending on the restriction, the density of this air changed.  At density it needs a volume of fuel for proper mix.  Airbox and filter do create a vacuum, changing the atmospheric pressure before the carburetor, but not a whole lot. 

The acceleration of the air through the venturi is what creates the real vacuum to make this work.  Throttle and choke also create vacuum cause when you have an air pump with restricted inlet, you get a vacuum pump.  When the air is turbulent though, this gets disrupted.  The key to the jets working is a smooth airflow over the port.  When you have ugly pulsing and turbulent air, it doesn't work right. 

Try it for yourself.  Take a bottle and put a piece of dry ice in it, or hot water, or whatever.  Blow pulses over top of the bottle neck and watch the CO2 draw out of it.  Do the same thing, blowing same amount of air, but blow giving the rasberry.  Doesn't work for crap.

So pods.  They do not change displacement, they do not change the ram.  They do not change the airbox vacuum (significantly), they do not change choke, throttle or jetting.  They only change the airflow in.  So if the amount of air the engine is drawing in for a set RPM/throttle position has not changed, then why would the fuel it needs change?  It really doesn't.  With exception of pods without sufficient CFM, every pod conversion I have seen has mentioned needing larger jets.  This means that the fuel draw isn't working as efficiently.

For your carbs, if you have mechanical sliders, then it really isn't so big of a deal cause you can adjust those.  With vacuum sliders, then it causes all sorts of problems.  Pods on the CV carbs without the horn just run terrible.  Nothing wrong with pods, they just need to be tuned.  In fact, the first CV carbs had essentially a pod filter.  They just had the horn built into them.  Hundred dollar a piece air filters for my 450...



Single air filter for the carb, Keihin carburetors.  CV carbs weren't found on the SOHC4s outside of the 81 and 82 650 if I remember right.  Key is laminar flow.  Cars, boats, bikes, paint guns, bug sprayers, car wash soap sprayer.  They all work on the same mechanic to draw in fluid.  And they all stop working if they do not have proper flow.  Is fluid dynamics.  The fact it is a motorcycle carb doesn't change this.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2014, 10:22:51 PM by RJ CB450 »
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Offline scottly

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Re: To pod or not to pod!
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2014, 10:34:06 PM »
  Airbox and filter do create a vacuum, changing the atmospheric pressure before the carburetor, but not a whole lot.


This is the key point: some oem airfilter setups Do produce a significant pressure drop. My CV carbed FT500 required an increase in main jet size from 140 to 185, and it is still a bit lean, measured on a dyno with an A/F meter, after replacing the stock airbox/filter with a K&N WHILE retaining the stock carb-to-airbox rubber "stack". Turbulence at the carb entrance IS NOT the issue. BTW, I have DCOE Webers on my CB750. ;)
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: To pod or not to pod!
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2014, 10:50:40 PM »
Let me just say that, if you have limited knowledge of carburetors, and aren't good at tuning, stick with the stock air box, pods will keep you up at night, they are a pain in the butt to tune and will NEVER  be better than the stock set up on a stock Honda 4  with factory carbs and intake system, its all designed to work as one, regardless of what anyone says...
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Offline RJ CB450

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Re: To pod or not to pod!
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2014, 11:03:16 PM »

This is the key point: some oem airfilter setups Do produce a significant pressure drop. My CV carbed FT500 required an increase in main jet size from 140 to 185, and it is still a bit lean, measured on a dyno with an A/F meter, after replacing the stock airbox/filter with a K&N WHILE retaining the stock carb-to-airbox rubber "stack". Turbulence at the carb entrance IS NOT the issue. BTW, I have DCOE Webers on my CB750. ;)

That is a fair leap in size.  Without knowing more on the bike, is tough to comment.  Sounds like something more at play than just a filter change.  Exhaust? Cams?  Engine wear? Too late to go into the discussion.

Restriction is an issue that some have on the 650s.  Some people remove the intake duct because it is restrictive and do re-tuning.  Big difference is that the air remains constant through the powerband.  When you have a poor entry, the dynamics become much more wild I guess is one way to put it.  I need to get my 450 assembled so I can start on my next project.  This discussion comes up so much, I want to get a junk bike to build a custom and do A/F mapping, flowbenching, etc to get some quantitative data for this debate.  Things like air pressure after the filter, etc.  With an airbox and proper flowing air filter, it should be near atmospheric inside the airbox with a good air filter.
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Offline scottly

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Re: To pod or not to pod!
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2014, 11:06:42 PM »
Stock 750 air filters have more surface area than 4 pods, from what I've seen, while the smaller bikes have less area stock than 4 pods. If an increase in jet size is required, it means the motor is processing more fuel and air. If a smaller jet is required, as may be the case with pods on a 750, the motor is not operating as efficiently. 
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Offline scottly

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Re: To pod or not to pod!
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2014, 11:12:11 PM »
  Sounds like something more at play than just a filter change.  Exhaust? Cams?  Engine wear?
Nope, the only change was the filter. The exhaust was changed later during testing, but did not noticeably affect the tuning. 
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Offline KeithB

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Re: To pod or not to pod!
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2014, 04:14:53 AM »
I have worked with a 750 with pods, a 750 with stock box and now a 550 with stock box.
I will not go back to pods on a stock carb set.
Yes, you can get them to "work" but I have had better overall results with the stock air intake setup.
RJ CB450 and TwoTired have (not this thread) make excellent arguments for the stock air box.
Considering the OP doesn't even know how to check jet size, I suggest he stay away from tuning for the time being.
Just my $.02 worth...
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Offline martin99

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Re: To pod or not to pod!
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2014, 06:24:43 AM »
As I read it, this bike already had pods when the OP bought it so for all we know it may already have been rejetted. In that case, switching to a standard airbox without changing the jets back to stock will bring just as many problems. So we really need to know what jets he has.

As the K&Ns are on the way, I'd go with the try-it-and-see suggestion first.
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Offline zstoldt

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Re: To pod or not to pod!
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2014, 06:53:15 AM »
As I read it, this bike already had pods when the OP bought it so for all we know it may already have been rejetted. In that case, switching to a standard airbox without changing the jets back to stock will bring just as many problems. So we really need to know what jets he has.

As the K&Ns are on the way, I'd go with the try-it-and-see suggestion first.

The K&N's should be here today. I'm going to try them out.

If I get bad results, I will check my jets.

Expect some pictures later today.

I did some research on tuning. Do you guys have any rules of thumb or tips when tuning carbs?
-Zak

Offline lucky

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Re: To pod or not to pod!
« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2014, 07:41:36 AM »
What year is the bike we are talking about?

Then we can talk about jetting.

Offline lucky

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Re: To pod or not to pod!
« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2014, 07:44:47 AM »
Let me just say that, if you have limited knowledge of carburetors, and aren't good at tuning, stick with the stock air box, pods will keep you up at night, they are a pain in the butt to tune and will NEVER  be better than the stock set up on a stock Honda 4  with factory carbs and intake system, its all designed to work as one, regardless of what anyone says...


I agree completely.
If you have no or very little experience use the stock parts or you will become very frustrated.
There is no way a stock bike will run right with pods and stock jets. NEVER.

Offline zstoldt

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Re: To pod or not to pod!
« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2014, 10:07:27 AM »
What year is the bike we are talking about?

Then we can talk about jetting.

It is a 1974 cb750k.

It had two pods and two open carbs when I purchased it.
-Zak

Offline RJ CB450

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Re: To pod or not to pod!
« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2014, 11:21:31 AM »

The K&N's should be here today. I'm going to try them out.

If I get bad results, I will check my jets.

Expect some pictures later today.

I did some research on tuning. Do you guys have any rules of thumb or tips when tuning carbs?

Yup, your situation is the type where we can see if we can get pods working.  In fact, it is the type of project bike I want to pick up.  Missing key parts like airbox, etc so I don't ruin a complete bike.

Despite what everybody says, Tuning carburetors isn't so much difficult, but you must remember it is more like art.  Those with a bit of money can do the full dyno tuning with A/F mapping through the rev range, but for average Joe, don't want to spend a grand on getting carbs done.

So, even without much experience, we can walk you through the steps to re-jetting a carb.  If you have a keen ear, and feel of hand, you can tune a carb with patience.  My 650, Probably a month of evening rides, etc to get them dialed in to being oh so sweet and running excellent mix.  No fancy tools other than a carb sync.

So, to tune and dial in your carbs, will want some bits and bobs first.

1.  All the standard carb tuning tools.  So ability to syncro and adjust the various adjustments.  At this point, more info on your bike so we know the carbs could help.

2.  Save yourself some time, and probably money and see if you can find a jetting kit.  This way you have an assortment and don't need to fight with one at a time finding jets.

3.  Know anybody with a big fan or blower?  Airflow will keep the worry about overheating.
 
Now thing to remember is that the different fuel circuits all work together as the powerband progresses.  Here is a good picture to sort of explain what I mean.  Keep the concept in your head.  Just a random one I grabbed, but should be good.



So jetting.  First thing is to get it to idle.  You have to sync it before anything else.  If carbs not syncronized, then will be alot more difficult to tell adjustment.

So if syncronized, adjust pilot screw.  Simple enough to do here.  If like other carbs I worked on, 1.5 turns from seat default.  If more a turn in from this, then you need smaller jet because are too rich.  With pods, expect to be running lean.  So adjust out until idle smooths, etc.  You can feel this from the exhaust and hear it as popping.  If you go more than 3 turns out (so 1.5 turns from your default) you can up your idle jet size a step.  Do so until you are within that 1.5-3 turns from seat.  This should get your bottom end going.

So this should get your bottom end running proper provided the airflow through the carb is decent.  One concern I thought up, and would explain the earlier discussion is resonance.  While the filter might meet the cfm, the total air capacity might not be enough to feed the cylinder resulting in insufficient pulse flow (so total CFM might be #, but pulse CFM might be 3*#).  Re-sync your carb and adjust.

Following this, you have your main jet and needle  Mechanical linkage can be adjusted and tuned for partial throttle.  Vacuum operated, you are at the mercy of vacuum.  One reason why CV carbs dislike pods.  If you have good source of airflow to keep bike cool, can do mid-range with just neutral.  Never have in gear on stand, one accidental lean and bike takes off.  Without airflow, then partial throttle runs.  Mid throttle is usually where you do this testing at lower speeds.  Check plugs and exhaust for richening.  If you have a buddy, can often smell if rich.  Plugs hopefully will show lean if not contaminated bad from idle setting.  Get this running smooth.

Finish up by doing above for rides with more full throttle.  Do a bit of a highway run.  Once more check plugs and do like above.  Probably wouldn't hurt to clean plugs between for better accuracy.

After all is done, you might end up with some hills or valleys in your fuel mix.  I myself am a slight bit gurgly in third at 50km/h (3200rpmish) and smooth for the rest of the power curve.  Nothing I can do about that really, Just a slight rich point where the rest of the curve runs stoic.

Remember, the worst that can happen is cannot get it to work and you put the old jets back in, start over, and you learn alot.  That is the best part about reviving something vintage!  It will not run perfect, and there is so much for I/R carburetors that maximizing what you have is the important part.  Also remember, a little rich just means you get poorer mileage, maybe slight power reduction and some fine soot in your exhaust.

But lean is mean.  Better to be slightly rich.
74 CB450 K7 Supersport, 82 CB650sc Nighthawk, 1982 CBX 1000, 2015 Tiger XCx.... And some ol minibike with a 5hp Briggs.

Offline RJ CB450

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Re: To pod or not to pod!
« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2014, 11:33:13 AM »
Okie, the 750's are sort of my arch nemesis, so somebody correct me if I am off on this.  It is a 1974, but is it like my 450 where you had multiple K models in a year?  I am basing the following information on the hypothesis it is a k4 750.

Appears to be mechanically operated and as such, probably adjustable shafts?  If so, then this is good.  One issue with the main jet and needle is that they work together.  So on vacuum operated, if you jet for one part working, odds are the other end will be way off.  For yours, you can sort of alternate between the two.  Get the needle control tuned in, then jet for main, back to your needle, until you get it running as best as possible.

Most importantly, take your time.  Small trips to prevent burning up something or overheating the bike.  ;D
74 CB450 K7 Supersport, 82 CB650sc Nighthawk, 1982 CBX 1000, 2015 Tiger XCx.... And some ol minibike with a 5hp Briggs.

Offline PeWe

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Re: To pod or not to pod!
« Reply #28 on: June 19, 2014, 12:04:21 PM »
Do not forget the ignition timing before jetting the carbs.
I have learned the hard way that too advanced ignition foul spark plugs. It's too easy to install smaller jets to avoid fouling plugs ending up in an engine that will not deliver any power and will run as crap.

My advancer unit has a play that make difference. (CB750)
I installed it max in clockwise direction and the T, F ' ' marks ~3mm to the right of where they should be. I timed cam correctly but forgot the relative big differences when I timed the ignition.
Advancer unit at max counterclockwise position of its play align with the case index mark correctly. I saw that when I timed the cam. Piston cyl 4 at top, T aligned with the index mark.
Then turned the adv unit max clockwise and made new mark in the case that will align with T  when unit is at max clockwise as I use. F and ' ' align case properly.
WOW, what a difference! I had to jet much richer, power back and not fouling plugs when ignition is correct.

I understand now, 30 years after why I got hole in one piston, almost hole in another, too adv ignition... the hole was on the inlet side of piston top, not exhaust side where a lean engine become hot.  (836cc CR10.5:1  pistons)
I thought it was too lean due to carb boots leakage.

About Pods...OEM box with the rubber velocity stacks is better for a not tuned engine. I do not when this will be an obstacle.
I have Mikuni  VM29 Smoothbore, box does not fit. KN oval pods. Maybe smaller vel stacks inside the pods should do good...

These Mikunis would be nice if I have additional $2500US to spend after all other stuff I want to buy.....
http://www.braigasen.com/TMR3201.gif
http://www.braigasen.com/TMR3202.gif
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline zstoldt

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Re: To pod or not to pod!
« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2014, 03:15:00 PM »
Alright guys,

I just put the K&N pods and took it for a little test drive.

It feels much better than before. It drags less when accelerating and it also idles better.

I can't help but think the carbs were already jetted for pods by the previous owner.

Here are a couple pictures.




-Zak

Offline RJ CB450

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Re: To pod or not to pod!
« Reply #30 on: June 19, 2014, 04:00:34 PM »
It is quite possible actually.  But either way, do proper diagnostic through the rev range.  May idle nice, but if say timing is too much advance and you are running lean, could burn out the engine fast.  Wouldn't hurt to do the full tune and inspect just for that even without rejetting.  Pain to take bowls on and off a bunch of times.
74 CB450 K7 Supersport, 82 CB650sc Nighthawk, 1982 CBX 1000, 2015 Tiger XCx.... And some ol minibike with a 5hp Briggs.

Offline TwoTired

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Re: To pod or not to pod!
« Reply #31 on: June 19, 2014, 06:45:40 PM »
I wouldn't assume the carbs are already jetted.  I might be convinced after I examined the spark plug deposits after some test track runs, though.


I like this as a guide.
http://www.dansmc.com/Spark_Plugs/Spark_Plugs_catalog.html

I happen the like the chart below.

I start with getting the main correct as that sets the very most fuel the bike can ever use.  Test track full WOT power runs and look at the plug deposits.  Adjust the size to get the right deposit pattern.

Next is some mid power operation. Mark your throttle so you know what position your slide are at.  This investigation takes longer as the engine isn't making maximum heat (which allows the plugs to self clean).  But, you are still look for no soot build up.

Lastly, the pilot screws are set for the leanest setting that will still make the throttle respond when the throttle is whacked to one half of remaining throttle in any gear (yes, even 5th) from idle RPM.  This will still actually be over rich rather than optimum idle mixture for idle.  This is because raising the slides loses suction in the carb throat (the suction is what draws in the fuel) while simultaneously making more air available.  The lean mixture leads to throttle stumble.  Honda's (or kehin's) cure was to make the idle mix over rich, so more air doesn't overwhelm the mixture and take it out of combustion range.  Later carbs (PD) used an accelerator pump to squirt extra fuel at throttle twist.  But, with out that, the idle needs to be over rich.  It is a balance between good throttle advance and keeping the plugs from building soot at idle.


Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline scottly

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Re: To pod or not to pod!
« Reply #32 on: June 19, 2014, 08:18:58 PM »
Alright guys,

I just put the K&N pods and took it for a little test drive.

It feels much better than before. It drags less when accelerating and it also idles better.

I can't help but think the carbs were already jetted for pods by the previous owner.

Here are a couple pictures.



Hey Zak, ride the bike around for awhile and get to know her before jumping into anything.  ;)
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
Helmets save brains. Always wear one and ride like everyone is trying to kill you....

Offline zstoldt

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Re: To pod or not to pod!
« Reply #33 on: June 19, 2014, 09:34:20 PM »

Hey Zak, ride the bike around for awhile and get to know her before jumping into anything.  ;)

This seems like good advice. I definitely want to learn the technical intricacies of tuning my carbs, but I'm getting a lot of information just by riding the bike around and getting to know it.

Thanks!
-Zak