Author Topic: Will a slipping clutch cause a gear to pop out?  (Read 2093 times)

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Offline brandEn

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Will a slipping clutch cause a gear to pop out?
« on: June 19, 2014, 05:34:32 PM »
Just wondering if a clutch that is slipping could cause a bike to slip out of 4th gear?

The reason I ask is my K4 750 has popped out of fourth gear a few times when I am really getting on it. It's got a APE clutch installed and I have had it slip a few times as well. When I rebuilt the engine I inspected the tranny before I installed it and I am pretty damn sure it was good to go same as the shift drum and shift forks. Just sitting here thinking about all this and wanted to ask to see what you guys thought and maybe get some input.

Offline flybox1

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Re: Will a slipping clutch cause a gear to pop out?
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2014, 06:08:03 PM »
On board here.  Hoping to learn something.....experiencing clutch jumping out of gear as well.
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

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Offline brandEn

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Re: Will a slipping clutch cause a gear to pop out?
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2014, 06:11:11 PM »
You too? On your new f3 rebuild?

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Will a slipping clutch cause a gear to pop out?
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2014, 06:19:17 PM »
Just wondering if a clutch that is slipping could cause a bike to slip out of 4th gear?

I wouldn't expect so.  A dragging clutch could wear the engagement dogs and wear or bend the shifter mechanism.  The later would limit the shifting travel distance and not allow full engagement of the dogs allowing them to ride out.  If this happens enough times, a ramp is formed for the dogs allowing them to climb out of the engagement slots under power.

Correction means getting into the trans and shifter components.
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fendersrule

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Re: Will a slipping clutch cause a gear to pop out?
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2014, 06:41:26 PM »
A worn clutch will not cause gears to slip out. They are almost independent systems.

A bike will slip out of gear for these reasons:

1) Worn dogs (TwoTired gave a good explanation, but there can be much more than just the dogs)

2) Bur on shift drum labyrinth (can occur)

3) Slop in the play of the large detent roller (this happens naturally with usage…look for slop around the rivet).

4) Chewed up/ bent forks (this is usually a symptom and not a cause, but can be caused with abuse)

5) Shifting paw bent/ cracked (this is caused by an #$%* previous owner trying to stomp on the shifter because they think it can engage with more force. This is one of the worst abuses of a motorcycle that can possible occur as this will screw up most of the parts that come after it, especially wrecking havoc on the forks)

6) Drum "star wheel" grooving (this happens naturally with usage.)

All of those parts have to work together 100% flawlessly. ANY error with the tolerance within that system will cause the motorcycle to slip. When you inspect transmission parts, you have to pay the utmost attention to all things. ALL "questionable" items MUST be replaced. All things should be properly measured and miked. Why? Because it sucks to have to go back to the transmission. Doing it now with the help of Bill Lane with my CB450 and all transmissions are extremely similar and work the same way, so this should apply to the CB750 too.

Notice clutch was not listed. To test to see how your clutch is working properly, ride your bike at a very low speed and shift into a gear that is too high and give it WOT. If it doesn't slip, then it's not the clutch.

Follow the adjustment procedure in the manual to adjust your clutch pressure screw while you're at it. Change your oil if you haven't in awhile with approved oil. It doesn't hurt to try these "easy but most likely not it" things before you have to spend 1-2 months fixing the transmission.

Sorry if it's not what you wanted to hear. Assembling a transmission will only give you so much knowledge (sorry, not much). When you have to tear back into it to fix problems, spend time researching, reading, and learning from the experts of all the possible problems and fixes, then it quickly becomes a rewarding experience. Then, imagine tearing it down YET again because you didn't fix the problem. Time to learn more (which will be all there is to know) and that's when you will nearly master it.

Good luck
« Last Edit: June 19, 2014, 07:03:57 PM by fendersrule »

Offline MCRider

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Re: Will a slipping clutch cause a gear to pop out?
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2014, 07:21:52 PM »
I'm with the bad news bears. My first hand experience was with the dreaded 2nd gear hop out, most common. This is because hitting 2nd from first is the most abusive, and causes the wear of the engagement dogs, bent shift forks etc. Proof of the punch is that Yamiya has seen fit to remanufacture the parts necessary to fix a second gear hop out, and none other.  They are NLA now. And they are expensive.

Replace the offending pair of gears and maybe the shift fork. You may get by with only the shift fork, but doubtful.

A slipping clutch has nothing directly to do with it. Though it could seem so. Coincidentally. The proof being... fix the clutch and note you're still jumping out of gear.   :(
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Offline brandEn

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Re: Will a slipping clutch cause a gear to pop out?
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2014, 07:34:22 PM »
Thanks for the responses. It's not really new bad news haha. I have been planning to pull the engine and open up the bottom for a while now so I have been mentally prepared for some time and gotten over the shock of having to open it up just after rebuilding it. I was just thinking about this and wondering that's all. I inspected everything thoroughly but obviously missed something. Oh well. A weekends worth of wrenching and all will be well again.

fendersrule

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Re: Will a slipping clutch cause a gear to pop out?
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2014, 10:47:52 AM »
And remember that each time it slips, damage occurs. Best to STOP riding the motorcycle at that point.