Author Topic: CB750 K6 - Step Step 12 - Now into some tweaking to get it right  (Read 57803 times)

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DH

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Re: CB750 K6 - Step 8c - Battle of the Exhaust Spigots...............Won
« Reply #225 on: August 22, 2015, 09:27:46 PM »
 God I miss the muscle years.
[/quote]

I think of this a lot. Gettin old.

Offline oldhatt45

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Re: CB750 K6 - Step 8d - Left Side Cleanup, more or less.
« Reply #226 on: August 24, 2015, 03:59:05 PM »
Between Yesterday and Today I got a few things cleaned up and ready to be put back together.
Sanded, polished and Buffed the Front Sprocket Cover.  Looks pretty decent, but I still hate Sanding!!!!!
Had to re-buff the Shifter Cover.  Somehow it got a little spotted up, so, what the hey.
Then I pulled the Stator Cover off.  And did I say I HATE Sanding?  Well I decided to try using a Red ScotchBrite pad on my drill.
Worked OK, I guess.  Then I went to the Black Compound on the Bench Wheel.  Got a little better. So I went to the Red Compound on the wheel.  And that's where it sits tonight.

I got the new front sprocket (JT Sprockets 17 tooth) and my Diamond XDL 530 chain ready to go. 
The Sprocket Cover is ready and the Shifter Cover is ready as well. 
Hopefully the Stator Cover will look at least OK enough until this winter, after I hit it with the Green then Jewelers ROuge and finally some Simichrome.

The Spigots are ready to go in after I finish cleaning up the front of the engine.  And the Oil Cooler is likewise ready, with new hoses and frame bands.

Hopefully tomorrow I can get a lot of this put together.

So, a couple of pictures of the Sprocket Cover, and partially done Stator Cover.  And one of the Lockhart Oil Cooler.  <G>

Charlie
« Last Edit: August 24, 2015, 04:00:39 PM by oldhatt45 »

Offline oldhatt45

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Re: CB750 K6 - Step 8c - Battle of the Exhaust Spigots...............Won
« Reply #227 on: August 24, 2015, 04:03:32 PM »
DH,

Know what you mean!!!!!
Those were the Days!!!!

Charlie

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Re: CB750 K6 - Step 8d - Left Side Cleanup, more or less.
« Reply #228 on: August 24, 2015, 05:14:54 PM »
Charlie,
Nice work on the shiny bits, dude.  That looks really good.

Ron
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Offline oldhatt45

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Re: CB750 K6 - Step 8d - Left Side Cleanup, more or less.
« Reply #229 on: August 24, 2015, 06:18:50 PM »
Ron,

Thanks, but I'm not real happy with the Stator Cover.  I'm thinking about doing some sanding on it and then redoing the wheeling.
I'd like to get the left side buttoned up tomorrow.  Then I can finish the front and move over to the right side and do the clutch.

Charlie

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Re: CB750 K6 - Step 8d - Left Side Cleanup, more or less.
« Reply #230 on: August 24, 2015, 08:00:28 PM »
Geesh.  You perfectionists...always making the rest of us look bad!  ;)
Ron

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Offline oldhatt45

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Re: CB750 K6 - Step 8d - Left Side Cleanup, more or less.
« Reply #231 on: August 25, 2015, 04:55:43 AM »
Ron,

I am definitely not a perfectionist!  :)  :)
The Stator Cover has scratches in it (probably from the Red ScotchBrite pad) that really are visible. 
So, while it is shiny, it also doesn't look quite right when you look at it next to the Shifter cover and the sprocket cover. 
And I do dread going back and sanding out the scratches!!!!  Did I mention that I hate sanding???????  :) :) :)

Charlie


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Re: CB750 K6 - Step 8d - Left Side Cleanup, more or less.
« Reply #232 on: August 25, 2015, 03:09:52 PM »
Given that I didn't like the way the Stator Cover turned out, just using a Red ScotchBrite Pad on my drill, I did go back and sand, polish and buff the damn thing.  LOL  Oh, did I mention that I hate sanding and polishing.  LOL

So, at least I don't feel embarrassed having it on the bike next to the other two nice shiny buffed covers.  <G>

Probably put the left side together for real on Thursday.  But just to give us all the idea..................

Charlie

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Re: CB750 K6 - Step 8d - Left Side Cleanup, more or less.
« Reply #233 on: August 25, 2015, 03:50:44 PM »
Very nice, Charlie.  A for effort and results!
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Offline oldhatt45

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Re: CB750 K6 - Step 8d - Left Side Cleanup, more or less.
« Reply #234 on: August 25, 2015, 04:56:03 PM »
CB750 Café Racer Fan,

Thanks!!!!  And did I say that I really Hate Sanding and Polishing??????   LOL

If you look at where I started on the Stator Cover, I guess it looks pretty decent, but I will probably take it off this winter and give it a real good polishing and buffing.  <G>

Charlie

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Re: CB750 K6 - Step 8d - Left Side Cleanup, more or less.
« Reply #235 on: August 25, 2015, 05:58:59 PM »
It's definitely worth it in the end though!  Nice job :D

Offline AintNoEasyWay

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Re: CB750 K6 - Step 8d - Left Side Cleanup, more or less.
« Reply #236 on: August 26, 2015, 05:34:36 AM »
Charlie hates polishing but it doesn't seem to hate him back. Nice job!

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Re: CB750 K6 - Step 8d - Left Side Cleanup, more or less.
« Reply #237 on: August 26, 2015, 06:08:52 AM »
Thanks Guys!!!

Hope it will run as good as it's starting to look.  :)

Charlie

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Re: CB750 K6 - Step 8d - Left Side Cleanup, more or less.
« Reply #238 on: August 27, 2015, 02:55:58 PM »
So, today I remembered that I needed to renew my Drivers License, so that if i get the K6 running I can actually drive it legally.  LOL
Wasn't too bad (he says, coughing under his breath), only a mere 2 hours spent waiting for the MVC people to do their thing so I could do mine.

When i finally got done with that, I stopped by Harbor Freight to pick up a $2.99 package of Tube Brushes (3 stainless and 3 brass) and an Engine Cleaning Brush set.
Purpose is/was to clean the cylinder and head Fins.  I read a thread where I think chewbacca5000 had done this and the Fins cleaned up nice for him.  So i figured why not give it a shot. 

Well, I must be doing something wrong.  First i hit the fins with some ZEP505 and the Nylon brush to get the grease and oil off.  Cleaned that off.  Then I hit the fins with the Stainless Steel brush and it seemed to work, but I guess the fins are too scratched up. 

Guess that at some point (maybe over the winter) I will take the engine out and give it a proper cleaning and maybe even some new paint.  Anyhow, the Fins are a little cleaner than they started. 

Then I cleaned up the Oil Filter Housing.  Hit it with some degreaser and then threw it in the Ultrasonic with Simple Green HD (purple stuff). 
Gave it 2 cycles and it was clean.  Was half way thinking about sanding and polishing it, but my better judgement (or was it my lazy streak) kicked in and said don't do it, it looks fine.  Did I mention that I hate Sanding and polishing????

So, tomorrow, (I hope), I can put the clean spigots on with new copper crush washers and a gob of Anti-Seize on the Screws,
cut some new oil line for the Oil Cooler and put them on and get the Oil Cooler back on. 
Then button up the left side of the engine.

Charlie

Offline oldhatt45

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Re: CB750 K6 - Step 8d - Left Side Cleanup, more or less.
« Reply #239 on: August 28, 2015, 03:01:36 PM »
Managed to get some time in today and put the Exhaust Spigots on and the Oil Cooler.
Also temporarily put in the Oil Cooler Lines.
Put a bunch of Regular Anti Seize on the Spigot Screws (the 8X22mm ones) per a tip from Hondaman.
And I remembered to put in the New Copper Crush Washers as well.  :)

Need to clean up the Final Drive Shaft for the Front Sprocket so I can button up the Left Side of the Engine.

Couple Pics of the Front of the Engine.  (Yeah, I know it's not real clean.  LOL )

Charlie

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Re: CB750 K6 - Step 8d - Left Side Cleanup, more or less.
« Reply #240 on: August 28, 2015, 03:32:08 PM »


Couple Pics of the Front of the Engine.  (Yeah, I know it's not real clean.  LOL )



Well, now that you mention it, yes it is!  Want me to send you some Gunk Foamy Engine Cleaner?! Ha!
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

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Re: CB750 K6 - Step 8d - Left Side Cleanup, more or less.
« Reply #241 on: August 28, 2015, 04:26:46 PM »
Stev-o,

I think its more a case of the paint is coming off in spots, but I've been wrong before and no doubt will be again.
And as far as the Gunk Foamy Engine cleaner goes, fine, I'll Take it!!!!  I'll even pay shipping.  <VBG>

Charlie

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Re: CB750 K6 - Step 8e - Left Side Cleanup, more or less........Done
« Reply #242 on: August 29, 2015, 05:17:39 PM »
Today I got he left side buttoned up.
Screws for the Stator Cover look like they've never been touched.  Probably because they haven't until now, but they still look untouched.  LOL
Put some Hondabond 4 on the Stator cover gasket and Anti Seize on the screws.  Hopefully in another 39 years they will come out easy. <G>

Also, put Hondabond 4 on the Shifter Cover and did the same Anti-Seize treatment on the New Screws.  The Old shifter cover screws were pretty well beat up and I had to drill one out when I took the cover off.  Also put in a new Seal for the Shift Lever.  Went in very easily after putting a drop of oil on it.  I only need to find the Shift lever among the bags of parts waiting to go back on.  :)

While the Stator Cover was off, I cleaned up the electrical connections and they were pretty good when I started, but look real good now and make a good solid connection.

Before putting the covers back on, I put the New Diamond XDL 530 chain on.  I ordered a 102 link chain but apparently they sent me a 120 link chain.  Ugh.  Don't have a chain breaker and the local Honda place didn't have one in stock, so I resorted to the Old Method of grinding off the head of the pins and putting the chain in a vice (suitably protected) and pounded out the pins.  Actually, it wasn't too bad.  They did struggle but were convinced to cooperate fairly easily. 

So now the left side is back together and I can move over to the right side and deal with the clutch and points.  I do have a Hondaman ignition but will not put it in until I have the Sparkly Girl running.

So here is where we stand now.  Hopefully I can start the Clutch tomorrow.

Charlie
« Last Edit: August 29, 2015, 05:21:11 PM by oldhatt45 »

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Re: CB750 K6 - Step 8e - Left Side Cleanup, more or less...........Done
« Reply #243 on: August 29, 2015, 08:18:00 PM »
Looking good Charlie, I've done the grinder/vice trick on the chain too. 

Plz refresh my memory, what shocks are those? (I recall you didn't rebuild the Konis)
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Re: CB750 K6 - Step 8e - Left Side Cleanup, more or less...........Done
« Reply #244 on: August 30, 2015, 03:53:25 AM »
Stev-o

At one time I did have a fairly nice chain breaker and riveter tool.  Guess the Ex still has it somewhere in her house.
But it wasn't too bad getting the link out.

Those shocks are the Ikon 7610-1296 shocks.  Black Bodies, chrome springs, chrome covers.
I think I like the look.  :) 

Still have to put the chain guard on, but I need to clean it up.

Charlie

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Re: CB750 K6 - Step 9 - Lets play with the Clutch
« Reply #245 on: August 30, 2015, 01:38:26 PM »
Today I cleaned up the shop area a bit so I could move the K6 a bit so the right side was easier to work on.
Got that taken care of and moved her over.
Then started on taking the clutch apart (after re-reading Hondamans book on the clutch).
Last time the Clutch Cover screws were out was when I changed the Clutch Springs to 305 Dream Springs.  So, almost 32 year ago.
Had to use the Impact Driver to get them loose.  But they all came out without much fuss.

Took the Cover off carefully and didn't drop the lifter plate or the Steel Balls on the floor.  Yea!!!
Then very gently took the 4 lifter plate bolts out, 90 degrees at a time for each bolt in an X pattern.  Yea I didn't break the lifter plate!!!!!

So far everything is good.  Bent the locking tabs down so they were out of the way.  Then tried to take the inner spanner nut off using my $10.00 Clutch spanner tool and half inch breaker bar, using what I thought was Hondaman's trick of putting the 4 bolts back in to hold the shaft.  No good.  Got out my Electric Impact Wrench and spun that baby right off there. 

Pulled the Clutch pack out and noticed that the outer most plate (a Cork one) was different from the side then the other 6 cork plates.  The inner most 6 plates are all square cut like it says in Hondaman's book.  The outer plate is a SLANT cut plate.  According to "the book" my K6 should not have had this, so I wonder it I should change it to a Square Cut Plate.  Given that I am the only owner of this bike since New, and I know the Clutch Pack has never been touched, I wonder if I should go ahead and just replace it exactly the same as it is??????

Haven't gotten to measure the thickness of the existing plates yet.  got too HOT in the garage again, but will do that tomorrow.
Also, the discoloration you see in the pictures of the clutch pack, is NOT rust.  It's baked on Oil.  The plates were Not stuck together, but came apart pretty much like you'd expect a normal good clutch pack to come apart.  Oil was still in there after 28+ years.  I probably could just put it back together and call it good if the plates measure out, but figure as long as I'm in there............  :)

Any thoughts on that slant cut plate????

Here are the pictures.  And these pictures were without any cleanup whatsoever.  You see it the way I saw it.  :)

Charlie
« Last Edit: August 30, 2015, 01:47:32 PM by oldhatt45 »

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Re: CB750 K6 - Step Step 9 - Lets play with the Clutch
« Reply #246 on: August 30, 2015, 08:56:58 PM »
Yep, the K6 sometimes ended up with the F0 clutch plates.
:o

The late K5 bikes were going to be Honda's last of the "K", but American Honda said otherwise, after Honda's plans had been laid. So, the K6 was resurrected after it was stopped (at the New Factory), so it sometimes got a mix of parts. I often see them with F0 wiring harnesses (with little jumpers using collars-on-colors to join dissimilar wire colors together) and sometimes with 1/2 K, 1/2 F clutches. - Among other things ---

Here's the skinny on the clutch: if it has a fully "F" hub, you will find a double-steel plate in the stack (either as the first steel one next to the top slanted cork plate, or else about 2nd from the bottom of the stack), which has tiny springs in between those 2 plates and rivets that hold the 2 plates together about 0.1mm apart from each other. This was the "slipper" plate. In these engines, the gearset is usually the same as is found in the F0 engines, and the bushings (in those tranny gears with separate bushings) will likely be Oilite dimpled bronze types (intended to carry extra power, as they are more efficient, like in the K0-K3 bikes). This hub setup will include the "F" clutch cover, which has a slightly greater distance (about 0.8mm) between the lifter and the hub, to allow room for this extra-thick steel plate. The top clutch plate will have wider outer tangs on it, and will have the slanted corks, and will therefore only fit on the top of the stack to match the "F" basket. Some of these only had cork on one side (the engine side) as well. The intent of this arrangement is: with the taller 1st gear, this lets less impact occur if the rider lets the clutch out too hard, reducing the shock loads on the countershaft and drive chain. This became the post-1975 design. This stack-up uses the longer clutch springs of the F0 clutch, and there may be 6 or 7 cork plates, depending on which hub got used. If it has the short hub with 7 plates, the slant-cut plate will have cork on just one side: these usually wear out pretty quickly. Most of these had 6 plates with the double-spring steel plate and a 2-sided top slant-cut cork plate, but I have seen at least 2 of them with 7-plate clutches (although, these may not have been Honda plates...).

The earlier K5 gearbox might be in the K6 engine, but without the F0 clutch hub. If this happened, then the "mystery" steel double-plate does not appear and the hub is the standard "K" length, but the fingers of the clutch basket may have been the "F" model. In this arrangement, the slanted top plate was used so the wider fingers of those plates will meet the wider top slot of the new basket: this will always be a 2-sided slant-cut cork plate. This stops the clutch from "snapping" when released during hot-oil shifts (i.e., engine is well warmed up). If a standard narrow-finger, square-cut cork plate is installed, the clutch will still work, but will tend to wear a small notch against the wider slots of the fingertips of the basket if the rider sits at traffic lights with the clutch held in, in gear. This clutch will use the K5-type clutch cover on the engine, too, as the stack is the same height as in the K5. This clutch uses the K5 springs, and there will be 7 cork plates.

Already you may begin to see that there is a 4-way possibility, here...

The K6 sometimes came with the F0 gearbox, but with the K5 clutch. In this case, the standard 7-cork-plate clutch and clutch cover was used, and the parts are the K5 parts. This gearbox also has the early 1st and 2nd gears, but the bushings in the countershaft and mainshaft gears are sintered iron (not bronze). These engines tend to be fussy about the oil being used, because today we don't have much zinc in our oils: the sintered iron bushings drag A LOT without zinc, making shifting sticky. One way to help reduce this problem is to go back to the original 1000-mile oil change intervals of the K0/K1 bikes, which will help (it was sometime during the K3 that the oil change interval magically became 1500 miles, corresponding with the addition of exhaust-valve guide seals). These hubs especially appreciate the "hub mods" I talk about in my book and other posts.

The 'complicated' combination of parts comes when the gearbox is the F0 version (extra-tall 1st-2nd gears) and the clutch is the standard K5 type, but with F0 springs. These bikes have "grabby" clutches because they do not have the slant-cut top cork plate, and they were the ones that got dubbed "...that in-out box of a clutch..." by Motorcyclist Magazine in their K6 review, hurting the CB750F0 sales in Britain quite a bit, then (even though they were writing about the "K"). That's one of the big reasons later blamed on the poor F0 sales there... But, the easy fix for this one was to either add some 4 extra oil holes to the hub, or modify the existing holes by adding oil sipes, or change the clutch springs to be the slightly weaker K5 springs, all of which made the clutch happier.

These were some of the things that made the K6 such an interesting (and sometimes messed-up, if mis-repaired) bike! They sometimes got F0 pistons with or without F0 heads, sometimes got K5 or F0 cams, spark advancers, wiring harnesses, or trannies - or clutches! If the "wrong" combination of parts happened, the K6 was kind of doggy. At the other end of the spectrum, though, it was a hotrod overshadowing the F0, while almost no magazine ever tested it on the [typical] dragstrip, quoting instead the (last year's) K5 specs they had against the new F0 when doing their test rides. The "doggy" ones are 100k mile bikes, though, much like a Beemer, while the "hotrod" versions continue today to add to the mystique of this history-making (yes, I said that...) bike.
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Offline oldhatt45

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Re: CB750 K6 - Step Step 9 - Lets play with the Clutch
« Reply #247 on: August 31, 2015, 12:21:41 PM »
Hondaman,

Thanks for the Info on the Clutch. 
Here are the observations based on what you've said.

I do not believe my clutch has the "fully "F" hub.  There is no Double steel plate anywhere in the stack.  Have separated all the plates and they are all of equal thickness. 
The Outermost plate is a Slanted Cork Plate with wider tangs that sit in the basket, which has widened slots for that Outer Slanted Friction Plate.
Have not measured the clutch cover yet.
The Slant cut outer plate does have cork on both sides.
The clutch plates have never been out or touched since new, and have approximately 24,500 miles on them.  Have to measure the width of the plates.
There are 6 Steel Plates and 6 Square Cut Cork plates and 1 Slant Cut Cork plate in my stack.
I always ran (and will run) BelRay 20W-50 oil.  (Have 4 quarts of the mineral type sitting here waiting to go in.)

I plan to do the clutch modifications that you recommend in the book.
4 additional holes (approx. 7/32).
bevel the interior side of all the holes.
Add the collecting slots and get rid of any flash.

Also, the only thing ever done to the clutch was to change out the original 4 clutch springs with springs from the 305 Dream.  After doing that, the clutch felt much better as I remember it.  I have a new set of both original and 305 spring and have not decided whether I will put new 305 spring back in.

Last, I am trying to figure out which New Friction plates to put in.  Apparently the part number given for the 750K6 Friction Plates is 22201-371-000  which gives you the Slant Cut Friction Plates depending on the dealer.  I was quoted $49.00 per plate for NOS Honda Square Cut Plates which is a bit much.
I have looked at Yamiya, K&L and Barnett plates and all 3 of those have square cut plates for the K6.  Any recommendations?????  Or other sources for the Square Cut Plates.

Thanks,

Charlie

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Re: CB750 K6 - Step Step 9 - Lets play with the Clutch
« Reply #248 on: August 31, 2015, 02:19:36 PM »
I was quoted $49.00 per plate for NOS Honda Square Cut Plates which is a bit much.
I have looked at Yamiya, K&L and Barnett plates and all 3 of those have square cut plates for the K6.  Any recommendations?????  Or other sources for the Square Cut Plates.

ACK!! $49 PER PLATE?!  :o  Service Honda lists the square cut plate 22201-371-000 at $17 each, and the slant cut 22202-392-000 as discontinued.

You can get all the friction disks from Parts-N-More for less than $50. I have used them in three CB750's so far without issues...  8)

Parts-N-More lists 22201-371-000 as "seven required" but that is only for earlier models without the slant cut 22202-392-000. Order six of the straight cut and one slant cut for $42.50 plus shipping (and maybe tax depending on location).
TAMTF...


Wilbur



Projects:
"Evolution": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=100352.0
"P.O. Debacle": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,126692.msg1441661.html#msg1441661
F2/F3 O-rings: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113672.msg1300721#msg1300721
Cam Tower Studs: https://www.mcmaster.com/#93210a017/=t19sgp
Clean up that nasty harness: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=137351.msg1549191#msg1549191
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,148188.msg1688494.html#msg1688494
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,139544.msg1579364.html#msg1579364
                                          
Charging system diagnosis: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=1012.msg8345#msg8345
Get the manuals: http://manuals.sohc4.net/cb750k/
The Dragon: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.msg1571675#msg1571675
Headlight Switch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113986.msg1283236#msg1283236
Branden's leak free top end thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=107040.0
Engine Lifting Made Easy: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,58210.msg1684742.html#msg1684742
                                      http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1675840.html#msg1675840
Static and Dynamic Timing: http://www.hondachopper.com/garage/carb_info/timing/timing1.html
Airbox Gasket Replacement: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,114485.msg1290000.html#msg1290000
"Café" : http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,84697.msg953814.html#msg953814
PD Carb Choke Linkage: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1669248.html#msg1669248
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,110931.msg1248354.html#msg1248354
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,48858.msg515204.html#msg515204
Follow up on your damn posts: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,144305.msg1791605.html#msg1791605
Taiwanese Cam Chain Tensioners:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,155043.msg1774841.html#msg1774841
Gumtwo Seat Cover: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,164440.msg1897366.html#msg1897366
Primary Drive: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,166063.msg1919278.html#msg1919278
Tank Latch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,165975.msg1919495.html#msg1919495
Shorten your forks: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-shorten-forks-td4042465.html DO NOT CUT THE SPRINGS!
Clutch How To: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-change-and-adjust-a-clutch-SOHC-td4040391.html
Late model K7/K8/F2/F3 front sprocket cover removal: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,178428.msg2072279.html#msg2072279
630 to 530 conversion: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180710.msg2094423.html#msg2094423

Sent from my Tandy TRS-80!

Offline oldhatt45

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Re: CB750 K6 - Step Step 9 - Lets play with the Clutch
« Reply #249 on: August 31, 2015, 03:11:08 PM »
madmtnmotors,

THANK YOU!
Guess I was lookin for love (errrrrr Friction Plates) in all the wrong places.  :)

Plates ordered and hopefully get them by the end of the week.

thanks Again,

Charlie