Author Topic: CB750 K6 - Step Step 12 - Now into some tweaking to get it right (Read 57627 times)

oldhatt45 · « **Reply #75 on:** August 31, 2014, 07:18:11 am »

Here are a couple of pictures that didn't want to go in the last post.
Inside of caliper

edwardmorris · « **Reply #76 on:** August 31, 2014, 09:23:58 am »

Glad that you have it apart and sorted out. Clean it out as best as you can, simple green soak is fine but you may also need to do a hot water dawn dish soap bath. I did both and there was still embedded gunk that I couldn't get out. A rinse with denatured alcohol got some more out but the last of the embedded debris will need to be polished out. I recall Mark's book has some good info on this, gotta go refresh.

Also, reading back I noticed you're using Red Lithium grease on bearings and such. Avoid that, turns out RLG isn't a lube, more of a water/corrosion inhibitor. General purpose is the way to go, although I'm still trying to determine which one exactly...

oldhatt45 · « **Reply #77 on:** August 31, 2014, 09:36:02 am »

Ed,
Gotcha on the caliper cleaning. The Red Lithium Grease is for the Steering Stem Bearings only. If you read the description of it, it is High Temperature, High Pressure grease. Only using on the Steering Stem. The Red Lithium apparently was the original grease in my steering stem bearings, so I figured I'd use it again, since it was still "grease" after 38 years. LOL
Thanks,
Charlie

edwardmorris · « **Reply #78 on:** September 03, 2014, 02:40:06 pm »

Charlie,

Did you finish installing the tapered bearings? What spacers did you go with for the 750?

oldhatt45 · « **Reply #79 on:** September 03, 2014, 03:47:43 pm »

Edward,
No, haven't gotten to that yet. Sorry. There was a Thread that was VERY Good http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=1516.125 that shows how to figure out the spacers.
This is what I plan on using as my guide (in addition to The Book). By the way, your Frame Looks Great, and the VIN Plate is fine. LOL

Been working on the caliper and brackets. Trying to make them look like yours.

Charlie

Stev-o · « **Reply #80 on:** September 03, 2014, 06:14:41 pm »

Hey Charlie - clean that groove out really good inside the caliper. May as well give it a coat of paint too, caliper paint from your local auto parts store will do the trick.

I touched up my K4 frame recently, semi-gloss paint is a very close match to stock.

oldhatt45 · « **Reply #81 on:** September 03, 2014, 06:36:26 pm »

Stev-o,
Yeah, I was working on the Caliper and bracket all day today.
I used the Simple Green Soak and then used the Brass Dremel brush very lightly. I think I will try a little Denatured Alcohol tomorrow and see how it looks. Right now it Still looks a little rough in the Groove. Not sure if the groove needs to be shiny and polished looking? Thoughts? Also, with the seal out, I tried dropping the New Piston into the caliper and it just drops in with absolutely no wiggle to it. I think that is Good?

Thanks,
Charlie

Stev-o · « **Reply #82 on:** September 03, 2014, 08:40:40 pm »

Groove doesn't need to be polished, just clean as a whistle. And yes, piston should slide in simply with no wiggle.

oldhatt45 · « **Reply #83 on:** September 07, 2014, 06:09:00 pm »

For the last couple of days, I've been working on the Front Caliper and brackets.
Got the Caliper Bracket looking reasonable. (Picture 1). Not as good as edwardmorris, but good enough. Wondering about clear coating it?

The Groove in the bore of the caliper was a concern since it was pretty rough, but it has been cleaned to within an inch of its life. LOL But ekpent, Stev-o and a couple of others helped me out with their assessment of the Groove. Thanks Guys! For future reference, 70cb750 suggested using a piece of a broken piston ring to clean the Groove.

Cleaned up the outside of the caliper and today I gave it 3 coats of VHT Caliper paint. Left it to sit in the Sun and seems to be curing well. Don't dare use the oven to cure it. Wife would have my butt on a platter for that stunt. But will put it out in the sun the next few days. Will start looking for a toaster oven.

Charlie

Stev-o · « **Reply #84 on:** September 07, 2014, 06:44:24 pm »

That bracket is blinding! Good job on all.

oldhatt45 · « **Reply #85 on:** September 07, 2014, 07:04:53 pm »

Thanks Stev-o!
The picture of the bracket was in the Garage after dark, using the flash.
Will take a real picture tomorrow. LOL

After reading some of the threads about the VHT Caliper paint I was kind of keeping my fingers crossed, but then I saw edwardmorris post and said (famous last words) if he can do it..........
LOL

Charlie

edwardmorris · « **Reply #86 on:** September 07, 2014, 07:49:07 pm »

Looking good, I know polished parts look much better in daylight and in person, but photograph like crap. Not sure what you're referring I have done, but if its me using the oven, I didn't use my wife's cooking and baking set, I temp wired up a cheap oven off of CL in the basement just for this project. If the paint is dry, at least in my experience there is no issues with it smelling bad, almost nothing.

oldhatt45 · « **Reply #87 on:** September 08, 2014, 04:40:25 am »

Edward,
I was talking about the Really Nice job you did on painting the caliper!
I'm always nervous about painting.
Charlie

edwardmorris · « **Reply #88 on:** September 08, 2014, 09:27:10 am »

Quote from: oldhatt45 on September 08, 2014, 04:40:25 am

Edward,
I was talking about the Really Nice job you did on painting the caliper!
I'm always nervous about painting.
Charlie

Ah, that, in the interest of time, I've given up on getting it perfect. Ideally, I should have sanded down the beating it has taken in several places. Yours looks to be in much better shape than mine, before and after paint.

oldhatt45 · « **Reply #89 on:** October 04, 2014, 02:23:44 pm »

Well, after going absolutely crazy with several other things, I've finally managed to make some progress on the K6.

I stripped and cleaned the Triple Trees and then repainted using the POR treatment and then some Rustoleum. The POR treatment seems to work nicely. Cleaner/Degreaser, then the Metal Prep and then the actual POR paint. I used the gray. Then a quick dust coat of the Rustoleum Primer and let it sit a few days, since I don't have an oven. Finally I sprayed the lower Triple with the Rustoleum Gloss Black and the Upper with Rustoleum Matte Black. The Matte Black looks pretty close to what the original Upper Tree looked like.

Today, I decided to put the Steering Stem back together. First thing was to measure the Old Lower Ball Bearing for Height and then the new All Balls Tapered Bearing. (See pics) The Old Lower Ball Bearing measured out to 18.23mm and the New Tapered Bearing with the THIN washer measured out to 18.71mm. So, given that the All Balls instructions and other write ups say that the difference should be no more than 1mm, I figured that the thin washer is the way to go for me.

Found a piece of 1 inch Diameter Sch 40 PVC laying around not doing anything, so I cut off a 10 inch piece, and then cut a slot down the length so it would slide over the stem. Warmed up the lower bearing that goes on the Stem with my Better Half's Hair Dryer for about 10 minutes and then then slid the washer, seal and bearing on. Put the old bearing on and then the PVC over the stem. Turned the whole thing upside down with the PVC on the floor, got a piece of 2X4 and my trusty 5lb Sledge and in about 3 or 4 whacks, the bearing was seated nice and snug on the stem.

Then I put the lower Tapered Race in the Steering Stem. Took that piece of 2X4 and used the 3lb sledge to tap the Race flush with the bottom of the Stem. Found a 1-1/2 PVC fitting that fit perfectly and in about 2 or 3 taps, the Race was in position.

Then on to the Upper Race. The 2X4 and 3lb sledge started it and a few very gentle taps and it was in place. It does in fact sit up a bit higher than the top of the Steering Stem Neck, but once the Stem is on it does seem to be OK.

Next I greased up the 2 bearings using the Red Lithium High Temperature, High Pressure Grease.

Now I'm ready to Slip the Stem in place. Got everything I needed within easy reach. The Upper greased bearing, the All Balls Washer, The Top Cup Nut. Slid the Stem in, Dropped the Tapered Bearing on, the All Balls top washer and the Cup Nut. Tightened the Cup Nut by hand to snug and then rotated the Stem to make sure it would. LOL Took the Spanner wrench and snugged it up and then loosened it just a hair. Will let it sit until tomorrow and see where I'm at.

For those wanting a more detailed review of the procedure, I am attaching Kirkn's writeup which he has given me permission to share with anyone wanting it.

Also put a few pictures of the assembly as it sits now.

Charlie

oldhatt45 · « **Reply #90 on:** October 04, 2014, 02:29:50 pm »

Here are the other Pictures. Don't know why the computer won't let me put in more than 2 pictures at a time. Ugh.

Charlie

oldhatt45 · « **Reply #91 on:** October 04, 2014, 02:40:44 pm »

Here is Kirkn's Excellent Thread put into a printable Document.
Thank You Again Kirkn!!!!!

edwardmorris · « **Reply #92 on:** October 04, 2014, 04:46:48 pm »

I'd be concerned about using Red Lithium grease for these, its not really a lube, more of a water repellent. I've double checked with Mark/Hondaman, use regular bearing grease instead.

oldhatt45 · « **Reply #93 on:** October 12, 2014, 06:07:44 pm »

edwardmorris,
Thanks for the info. Sorry for not replying sooner. Been up to my ______ in alligators.
Finally have some time to work on the 750.

Charlie

oldhatt45 · « **Reply #94 on:** October 12, 2014, 06:39:08 pm »

Finally got some time to finish up truing the Front Wheel.
I have gotten the Rim centered to .38mm left of center.
The Axial runout is down to .38mm
And the Radial runout is down to .24mm
Don't think I can get it much better than that, but at some point I will give it another go after I put the tire on.

Next up is replacing the front fork seals. Even after sitting for 26+ years, there was no visible sign of any leakage, but I figure that the seals are 38 years old. So, starting with the left fork, I drained the fork. Last time I can definitely say for sure I changed the oil was in 1979. I used Bel-Ray 30wt fork oil and my notes say I put in 150ml. When I drained the Oil, it looked a lot like it did when it went in. (See Picture below) I drained approximately 145ml of oil out of the fork that I can tell. Maybe a little more that ended up on the floor. LOL

Then the circlip came off pretty easily using my circlip pliers.
Next I took the retaining bolt out of the bottom of the fork using my electric impact wrench and a 6mm allen head bit. This came out a bit harder, but it came out with no damage.

Then I took the tube out of the lower leg. It came out nice and smoothly, but not quick. More like a slow steady slide. From all the threads I read, the fork seal probably should have come out with the tube, but there it is, sitting nicely in the lower leg. (See Picture below) It is sitting butted against the lower edge of the circlip groove with about 3/16 inch of space between the bottom of the seal and the lip inside the lower leg. (See Picture below) That is the way it was put in at the factory, cause I never did any work on the forks other than replace the springs and oil.

Now I need to figure out the best way to remove the seal without doing any damage. After reading many threads on Seal Removal, the 2 best (read only) methods involve heating the leg and using a C-Clamp to pull the Seal up and out. I started a thread on the SOHC forum to hopefully get some other ideas.

Also, there was minimal sludge in the bottom of the cup of oil, so I think that is a plus.

Wondering about what looks like a phenolic washer on the bottom of the piston. Should this be replaced???

Hoping to get the seal out tomorrow.

If anyone has any ideas on removing the seal, all help and ideas are welcome.

Thanks,

Charlie

Stev-o · « **Reply #95 on:** October 12, 2014, 07:07:46 pm »

I recently changed the seals on one of my bikes, used a very small C-clamp to pull it out.
No heat needed.

oldhatt45 · « **Reply #96 on:** November 01, 2014, 06:55:34 pm »

It's been a couple of exciting weeks for me, but have made some decent progress (at least I think so. LOL).

Drained the Old (30+ years) Bel-Ray 30 wt fork oil out of the forks. According to my notes, I put in 150ml into each leg. I got approximately 145-148ml of oil out. And it still looked like fork oil. But there was a little sludge in the bottom of the cup, so, I'm glad I took things apart and drained the old oil out.

Put the forks in my bench vice and used my OLLLDDDD Craftsman electric impact wrench to pull the bottom bolt out of the forks. Held the forks in place using wooden V Blocks so I wouldn't scratch anything.

I got the Fork Seals out using a nicely rounded tire iron that I taped up the shaft where it hits the top of the fork. I also used the wife's hair dryer to warm up the top of the forks to loosen the seal up. That worked well and got the seals out with no collateral damage.

Washed all the internal fork parts in warm water and Dawn dish detergent. Used a long nylon brush (similar to a baby bottle brush) to do the cleaning. Used the hair dryer to do the initial drying then let them sit in my furnace room for a couple of days (it's nice and warm in there) to finish drying.

While they were drying, I then polished the slider tubes. Didn't get crazy, but I used red, green and Jewelers Rouge and have the tubes looking pretty much new. Put a little Simichrome on the section that would be above the seal just to seal the chrome.

A few days later, I started putting the forks back together again. Used 1 small drop of Blue Loctite on the bottom fork bolt as was suggested in another thread in SOHC/4. Got the forks back together and used a little fork oil to lube things up when putting everything back together.

I replaced the small rebound springs, more on general principles than anything else. The old ones measured just about 1 - 1.5mm shorter than the new ones, so what the h__l. I also used new bolts in the bottom of the fork as well as new crush washers. Even though the old bolts had only come out once since the bike was built in 75.

Next, I had a choice of fork seals that I could put in. A while back when I started taking the front end apart, I bought a set of Honda seals. They measured 11mm tall and appear to be double lipped. I also bought a set from David Silver Spares. These measure 13.5mm tall and appear to be triple lipped. Did a bunch of reading on which way to go. There are some reports of the 11mm seals leaking right out of the box and there are some stiction issues reported when using the 13.5mm seals. What to do, what to do.
I decided to use the 11mm seals, figuring that if they leak, I can always pull the forks and put in the 13.5mm seals. So, the forks are back together. And I did make sure the writing faced the top of the fork tube.

Now to mount them up in the triple tree with the rechromed headlight ears. I had new rubber bushings for the inside of the ears. During the reassembly I noticed a very slight scratch line on the tubes right where the lip inside the headlight ear would be. Didn't like that, so while looking on my bench, I found one of the lip washers off the lower steering stem. It is just the right diameter inside and out to fit over the lip inside the headlight ear, so, since this part of the fork doesn't (or isn't supposed to) move, I put it on over the lip. Added benefit is possibly that no water should get down on the part of the tube inside the rubber fork boot.

Got the forks all mounted up and ready to start mounting up the rest of the front end. I will have to loosen the fork bolts up to align the forks properly. Also, since I used the All Balls tapered bearings in the steering stem and used the thin spacer provided I have ended up with about a 1mm space between the top of the rubber ear and the bottom of the upper triple tree clamp. Thinking about removing the steel washer under the steering stem castle nut and grinding the lip off. Would seem that this will remove that 1mm of space. But I have time to do that, so it can wait for now.

Attached the Stays to the fender and put the new O-Rings into the Caliper bracket along with some Grease. The Caliper Bracket moves nice and freely, so not anticipating any Caliper alignment problems.
Mounted the fender up and just snugged all the bolts down finger tight. Need to check and see if I need to use any Loctite or anti-seize on anything before I tighten everything down.

So here are a couple of pictures of how she sits tonight.

Charlie

oldhatt45 · « **Reply #97 on:** November 01, 2014, 07:01:16 pm »

A few other pictures.

Two pictures showing old fork oil and amount drained.

Picture of the rubber washer in headlight ear.

Stev-o · « **Reply #98 on:** November 02, 2014, 05:43:00 am »

It's amazing you have notes on the fork oil from 30 years ago! Are you an engineer by chance?

oldhatt45 · « **Reply #99 on:** November 02, 2014, 05:56:24 am »

Stev-o,

Unfortunately, Yes, I am one of the cursed anal engineers. ROFL
I try to keep notes on all my vehicles. Each vehicle has it's own notebook.

Admittance to the secret society of Anal Engineers requires ownership of the "little red notebook" and reference manual.

Charlie

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Author Topic: CB750 K6 - Step Step 12 - Now into some tweaking to get it right (Read 57627 times)