Topic: At least Valvoline is trying to help!

[CoachDoc]

And they have no friction modifiers or slick agents or any of that jazz?

In a word, no. I've checked that out carefully, and I can attest to no hint of clutch slippage in any of my bikes.

[Garage_guy_chris]

I live in the great white north (Canada) and have never seen this 4 stroke motorcycle oil anywhere. I recently decided to try the VR1 20w-50 which is available at most wal-marts and so far am very pleased with the results and am happy to report no clutch problems yet after about 1000 miles.
If anyone knows where this might be available in the Toronto area i would love to give it a go.

[grcamna2]

Chris,
Do you have any Napa stores up there ?

[PeWe]

#
#
I am 'shopping' for a new bike oil because the Castrol 4T falls well short of my expectations since they, too, removed the zinc, starting in 2008. It makes the 1-2-3 gearshifting sticky, and the clutch 'grabby', compared to, say, Bel-Ray mineral oils.
#

Which Castrol 4T?  There are some when searching Catrol 4T. I have CASTROL ACT-EVO 4T 20W/50 with "trizone technology"...
I have noticed sticky clutch. Clutch has been stucked several times. Left bike with gear in over night, next day clutch did not run freely as it should. (Strange ..gear in or not should not make any difference)
 I had to rock the bike forwards-backwards to get it to work again. Same thing when I replaced the clutch springs. Plates glued together very quickly.
I have drilled som extra holes in the clutch hub. That should make things better, or?

This never happened back in the 80's. Not even after 1 winter of no use.
I'll try Redline ZDDP additive that I can find here.

[HondaMan]

#
#
I am 'shopping' for a new bike oil because the Castrol 4T falls well short of my expectations since they, too, removed the zinc, starting in 2008. It makes the 1-2-3 gearshifting sticky, and the clutch 'grabby', compared to, say, Bel-Ray mineral oils.
#

Which Castrol 4T?  There are some when searching Catrol 4T. I have CASTROL ACT-EVO 4T 20W/50 with "trizone technology"...
I have noticed sticky clutch. Clutch has been stucked several times. Left bike with gear in over night, next day clutch did not run freely as it should. (Strange ..gear in or not should not make any difference)
 I had to rock the bike forwards-backwards to get it to work again. Same thing when I replaced the clutch springs. Plates glued together very quickly.
I have drilled som extra holes in the clutch hub. That should make things better, or?

This never happened back in the 80's. Not even after 1 winter of no use.
I'll try Redline ZDDP additive that I can find here.

That ZDDP will help. The zinc is needed to prevent the cork sticking to the metal plates.

[Grabcon]

I found the summary below in a bit of research. My take away is follow exact measures, do not over do it and know what the concentration levels are prior to adding any ZDDP.



So these are some of our conclusions. These types of problems are never simple, but as a result of our reading we would offer the following observations:

1. Consider using ZDDP as an additive in the motor oil during the run in period on a rebuilt classic engine. We are presently doing this on our rebuilt Jaguar 3.4Litre engine for the Mark 2.

2. Be careful with the concentration of ZDDP used in your break in oil, as over dosing can cause increased wear – more is not always better! Always refer to the manufacturers specs and measure well.

3.Consider using in your classic, motor oil which specifically contains ZDDP. Valvoline, for example, has a range of products as do. If you prefer, add ZDDP to your normal engine oil, making sure that you measure properly and achieve the manufacturers recommended concentration levels.

http://classiccars.about.com/od/maintenancetips/a/Zddp-Debunking-The-Urban-Legend-This-Motor-Oil-Additive.htm

[Dunk]

I am using that oil. I forget if 10w40 or 20w50. Clutch drags when hot. No drag at all when cold. Did not have this problem a year ago before restoring the bike and rebuilding the top end of the engine. I removed the clutch pack, cleaned, oiled, installed and run with this oil. Same clutch as was used previously as it measured out good. I did the basket mod drilling extra holes for oiling but I'd think that would help reduce drag or at worst have no effect.

TerryInAustralia commented that Valvoline is no good in his experience and switching to another oil has fixed clutch dragging issues in bikes running Valvoline. Not sure if they get the same oil formula over there or not for the motorcycle oils but I'll be going back to my usual GN4 for my next oil change and see if there's any change.

So not sure on if there's an issue with this oil or with my clutch but at least one person has noticed clutch issues with Valvoline motorcycle oil.

[KeithB]

An interesting article on high zinc content oil.

http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35836

[reddyvv]

Here is some good info on the motorcycle oil classifications...

http://www.oilspecifications.org/articles/JASO_MA_JASO_MB.php

And a cool tool to find similar oils or to find oils matching a particular spec...

http://www.oilspecifications.org/oiltool/oiltool.php

According to this the Valvoline oils only meet the MA spec whereas the Castrol oils meet MA-2 which is theoretically better?

[jamesbekman]

Just a thought, anyone look into aviation oil?  Lots of general aviation planes are air cooled as well and are a very old design.  There are tons of old cessnas still flying out there.  Avgas works great for our bikes due to no ethanol...  Im thinking zinc levels are very important to a air cooled cessna etc... 

[jamesbekman]

Looks like thats a negative,

Decent read though with comments and links... http://generalaviationnews.com/2013/08/28/what-you-dont-know-about-zinc-can-hurt-you/

[reddyvv]

Looks like thats a negative,

Decent read though with comments and links... http://generalaviationnews.com/2013/08/28/what-you-dont-know-about-zinc-can-hurt-you/

Not really. I read as it saying that zinc is required at the right concentration. Too little or too much can both cause problems therefore the recommendation not to use a zinc additive as it could go over that threshold. But at the same time you should make sure the oil that is being used has enough zinc.

[jamesbekman]

Anyone try this?  Price isnt tooo bad for a case of 6.

http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=65895

http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=65895

Only problem I see is Zinc levels from what I have read should be around 1200-1400 parts per million and this is 2000 which could be detrimental as too much zinc is a bad thing.  I have no clue but its the only variation I can see.

[jamesbekman]

This isn't an 'oil thread', but a singular on-line product evaluation attempt, by me. 
If you have used this oil, maybe make a comment about it? If not, don't bring up another oil topic, please.

http://www.valvoline.com/products/consumer-products/motor-oil/motorcycle-atv-oil/13

"Normal" Valvoline oils (good for car engines) have long been my personal choice, and I typically get upwards of 300k miles from my engines with it. But, it has always had too much detergent for bikes, making it foam in our SOHC4 engines. Since the EPA started edicting in 2002 that oil makers follow THEIR rules and not [needed] ones, most oils have fallen well short of what we need. Here is the first version I have seen in a long time that is trying to meet the needs: good for wet clutches, has more-than-others zinc, and has anti-foaming agents included. I'll try some out at my 100 mile oil change and report back (if I can find some around here).

...and you can be sure that Valvoline is taking some serious flak from the EPA for selling it...

I am 'shopping' for a new bike oil because the Castrol 4T falls well short of my expectations since they, too, removed the zinc, starting in 2008. It makes the 1-2-3 gearshifting sticky, and the clutch 'grabby', compared to, say, Bel-Ray mineral oils. Problems is: Bel-Ray is hard to find outside of the 9 AM -to-6 PM bike shops, and locally they are gouging over $7 per quart for it. I work 9 AM to 8 PM most days, can't ever GET to a bike shop...and shipping heavy oil makes it closer to $10 per quart. 

Hi Hondaman,

My apologies....  Seems being busy at work, and reading something quickly combined with too much coffee has got the better of me...  Didnt mean to hijack your thread.  Id like to see your results.

-James

[Bankerdanny]

This is what I have used since I got by first 550 in 2011. AutoZone carries it, so that is what I went with. I also use the 20-50 in the transmission for my MG since the electric overdrive uses a wet clutch system.

[AJK]

For the rotella fans. It relates to zinc content.
http://flycorvair.net/2013/06/26/notes-on-corvair-flight-engine-oils/

Here is an overview on zinc importance as well
http://youtu.be/4LIqyOrVJfU

[70CB750]

I got 150 miles on Valvoline 20W50 with added zddp boost and so far the shifting is the same, the idle oil pressure is the same.

Good oil and for 3 bucks or so a bottle and I need only 3 in the K0.

[PeWe]

- Level of zinc to be used?
I have seen Motorcycle oils with 1000-1100ppm. -Is that enough?

I found a mineral oil with 2100ppm of zinc, hígh dozes of phosphorus.  Car oil for US Hot rods
BUT molybdenum in higher levels as well. This will avoid dragging clutch but introduce slip instead, right?
- Max content of moly without slipping clutch?  I have read about people using oil additive with moly without slipping clutch.

My clutch drags when cold. But I think it is better now after adding zinc additive. I had to rock the bike forward-backwards only o few times today when cold with 2:nd gear in + clutch lever max pressed. Easy to find neutral when almost warm. Thunderstorm stopped my riding plans today. I had to start engine in garage to verfiy latest carb changes.

Oil thread is needed to verify a good working oil for our old bikes used worldwide. The oils are different in different countries.
I need a list of OK oils with minimum engine mechanical wear and no clutch issues like dragging or slipping.
Dayly riding, hot street as well as oils for racing only.
Castrol 4T Act Evo is NOT on that list despite the convincing commercial (Dragging clutch, maybe more to be found when open the cases next time.)

[HondaMan]

- Level of zinc to be used?
I have seen Motorcycle oils with 1000-1100ppm. -Is that enough?

I found a mineral oil with 2100ppm of zinc, hígh dozes of phosphorus.  Car oil for US Hot rods
BUT molybdenum in higher levels as well. This will avoid dragging clutch but introduce slip instead, right?
- Max content of moly without slipping clutch?  I have read about people using oil additive with moly without slipping clutch.

My clutch drags when cold. But I think it is better now after adding zinc additive. I had to rock the bike forward-backwards only o few times today when cold with 2:nd gear in + clutch lever max pressed. Easy to find neutral when almost warm. Thunderstorm stopped my riding plans today. I had to start engine in garage to verfiy latest carb changes.

Oil thread is needed to verify a good working oil for our old bikes used worldwide. The oils are different in different countries.
I need a list of OK oils with minimum engine mechanical wear and no clutch issues like dragging or slipping.
Dayly riding, hot street as well as oils for racing only.
Castrol 4T Act Evo is NOT on that list despite the convincing commercial (Dragging clutch, maybe more to be found when open the cases next time.)

You're correct, PeWe: the molybdenum will make the plates slip. It bonds to the cork and makes an excellent lubricant! This would be good oil for our engines, except for the molybdenum. In car engines, it's great stuff.

[brewsky]

Just changed out the 10-40 version of Valvoline MC oil from wal mart (3.98/qt) in my 550 after a couple thousand miles.

Shifting and clutch action was fine.

It is labeled JASO MA, which I think now is a combination of MA1 and MA2 specs.

The constant change of specs and additive packages is enough to make your head spin!

The best "feeling" oil I have used as far as clutch and tanny is concerned, was Mobil 1 15-50 full synthetic car oil (about 10 years ago), but who knows what's in it now!

I'm now trying Rotella T 15-40 diesel ($12 and change/gallon) from wal mart, which other boards are high on. It's also MA listed.

[HondaMan]

Just changed out the 10-40 version of Valvoline MC oil from wal mart (3.98/qt) in my 550 after a couple thousand miles.

Shifting and clutch action was fine.

It is labeled JASO MA, which I think now is a combination of MA1 and MA2 specs.

The constant change of specs and additive packages is enough to make your head spin!

The best "feeling" oil I have used as far as clutch and tanny is concerned, was Mobil 1 15-50 full synthetic car oil (about 10 years ago), but who knows what's in it now!

I'm now trying Rotella T 15-40 diesel ($12 and change/gallon) from wal mart, which other boards are high on. It's also MA listed.

I've been using that 15w40 diesel in the break-in oil of the 550 engines I recently rebuilt. For short-haul (non-Interstate touring) riding it should work OK.

The Mobil 1 15w50 worked well in my 750 until I hit the hiway for a while (70-80 MPH), then it became thin enough that the engine was heating. Long ago they made a 20w50 in a similar formulation, which got me started on the 15w50, but eventually it dissolved the sealant on the gaskets and began weeping out (slowly) everywhere. The 500/550/400F/350F has O-ring top end gaskets, so this wouldn't be as big an issue as with the 750's paper gaskets.

So far, I am not impressed with this Valvoline in my 750. When cold it's OK, but when hot I have trouble with shifting into 1st gear (that's a new one! Never had that before) and it hangs partway into 3rd unless I'm REAL deliberate with the shift. It has about 100 miles on it so far. Next I will try adding some ZDDP to see if it improves: if so, we'll know where the issue lies...

This morning I was embarrassed in traffic when a light turned green and the engine stalled when I tried leaving: it seems someone stole the gas out of my tank last night, leaving just enough to barely cover the MAIN pipe until I got to the end of the street. Switching to RES solved it, but I only showed 53 miles from 3.4 gallons? Nope, someone stole it: this is Colorado these days...

[nccb]

This morning I was embarrassed in traffic when a light turned green and the engine stalled when I tried leaving: it seems someone stole the gas out of my tank last night, leaving just enough to barely cover the MAIN pipe until I got to the end of the street. Switching to RES solved it, but I only showed 53 miles from 3.4 gallons? Nope, someone stole it: this is Colorado these days...

Hmm, I think we know who to blame.  SCHNELL

[flybox1]

So far, I am not impressed with this Valvoline in my 750. When cold it's OK, but when hot I have trouble with shifting into 1st gear (that's a new one! Never had that before) and it hangs partway into 3rd unless I'm REAL deliberate with the shift. It has about 100 miles on it so far. Next I will try adding some ZDDP to see if it improves: if so, we'll know where the issue lies...

The included ZINC/Phos not enough in this valvoline 4stroke MC 20w50?
What will the added ZDDP tell you/us if the issues continue?

sorry about the ufcking gas thieves   

[HondaMan]

So far, I am not impressed with this Valvoline in my 750. When cold it's OK, but when hot I have trouble with shifting into 1st gear (that's a new one! Never had that before) and it hangs partway into 3rd unless I'm REAL deliberate with the shift. It has about 100 miles on it so far. Next I will try adding some ZDDP to see if it improves: if so, we'll know where the issue lies...

The included ZINC/Phos not enough in this valvoline 4stroke MC 20w50?
What will the added ZDDP tell you/us if the issues continue?

sorry about the ufcking gas thieves   

If adding the ZDDP doesn't help, it means the detergent is high enough that it is washing the plates on the clutch, causing drag. I kinda expect this is the issue, since it took about 25 miles before the sticky-shift problem appeared. The Castrol 4T I had in it before was better, but it doesn't have the long-chain plymer strength it used to have when it was mineral-based oil, so when it gets hot it thins out more than it used to, and power drops off. This indicates the bearings and pistons skirts are dragging a bit.

I should caveat all this with: I've ridden all but about 15 of the 140,000+ miles this bike has on it, so it and I are closer than my wife and I, even... I know EVERYTHING about this particular 750K2, even its 'moods'.  Thus, it makes a great baseline from which to test this stuff.
 

[Don R]

I had the marvel oil additive out and put some in my 750 a week before an oil change. It seemed to wash the clutch plates too. It got sticky and clunky, I changed it out and it seems better now.  I'm using valvoline 20W/50 motorcycle oil but it's been on the shelf a while and might be the old formula.