Author Topic: White Smoke, Chattering, Gas Smell, "Clunky" Clutch  (Read 3395 times)

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Offline MotoLion

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White Smoke, Chattering, Gas Smell, "Clunky" Clutch
« on: June 23, 2014, 10:23:32 PM »
Hey guys,
I have a 1973 CB500K. It was running pretty good.
1. I switch to a MAC 4into1 canister exhaust and I got some bogging that typically happens around 3-4k RPMs. Probably need to re-jet?
2. I adjusted my clutch and it developed an issue. Once it gets warm it becomes increasingly more difficult to let it out. The first 3/5 of letting it out is fine... but then my options are... let it out and it will sort of pop in to gear, or use another finger to give the clutch lever a push and I can get it to go out more smoothly. The other part to this issue is difficulty finding neutral and sometimes 1st is tough to get too. Also everything sounds clunky until 3rd or 4th gear. Switching to 1st gear from neutral sounds like a clunk not a snick.
3. Engine seems to burn a good amount of oil. I feel like I am always putting in a little oil after a good ride.
4. White smoke comes out of the top exhaust and there is a gas smell. Plenty of smoke. See attachment, red circles.
5. Engine has issues idling even when warm. This occurred after adjusting my clutch AGAIN to fix #2 of this list. Clutch feels pretty good after adjustment though. I still have a little trouble shifting once warm.
6.I have a rattling noise that is also involved with the clutch. It goes away once the engine is as at about 2k RPMs. I don;t think it's cam chain... I have adjusted that before and this is different.

What do you think???

Also... When checking your oil... do you need to screw the oil plug all the way in or do you just dip it in to get a read? 

Offline MotoLion

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Re: White Smoke, Chattering, Gas Smell, "Clunky" Clutch
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2014, 07:23:15 AM »
Calj737
Thank you so much!
It has the stock air box on it.
I will do all the things you suggested and report back.



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Offline MotoLion

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Re: White Smoke, Chattering, Gas Smell, "Clunky" Clutch
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2014, 09:41:06 PM »
OK. I did the compression test.

#1 - 100psi - 100psi with oil
#2 - 90psi - 100psi with oil
#3 - 115psi - 120 with oil
#4 - 117 psi - 117psi with oil

The spark plugs were a little black with dust but nothing to bad.
I didn't see any pressure loss when I let the gauge sit.


Also... I snapped one of the bolts where my exhaust attaches... what should I do about that??? ....so bummed.

fendersrule

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Re: White Smoke, Chattering, Gas Smell, "Clunky" Clutch
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2014, 06:26:12 AM »
Smell your oil.

Offline TwoTired

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Re: White Smoke, Chattering, Gas Smell, "Clunky" Clutch
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2014, 10:26:27 AM »
Clunking into gear is a clutch drag issue.  If not addressed in a timely fashion trans engagement dogs, and shifter mechanism wear and damage follows.
Clutch drag can be poor adjustment, warped clutch plates, wrong or worn out oil, clutch plates overheating, broken shifter rod, etc.

Are all the headers getting hot?  #3 spark doesn't look like it is firing.  Best to find out why that is.  Dead cylinders WILL pump out oil.

What is the status of the routine 3000 mile tine up schedule?  That and a carb vacuum sync can make a huge difference in the clack at idle.  Uneven firing pulses change the crank rotation speed causing the big gears to alternate gear face contact.  Clack, clack, clack.

White smoke from the breather is usually water vapor.  Has the engine reached operating temperature and held there for 20 minutes to evaporae all the water in the crankcase?

From the Honda manual instructions, oil level is checked with bike upright and level, with the dipstick threads NOT engaged.

The broken stud can be extracted and then replaced.  I don't know about your mechanical prowess, so it might be prudent to have that work done for you by a qualified mechanic or machinist, as there is opportunity to damage the head.

For the valve inspection covers use ONLY a 6 point socket on those for removal.  Or, be prepared to buy replacements.


Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline MotoLion

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Re: White Smoke, Chattering, Gas Smell, "Clunky" Clutch
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2014, 10:18:17 PM »
Hey Team,

OK. I am going after the clutch issue first... it's the most annoying at the moment. I went to a 4into1.com in SF and picked up a gasket because I want to open the crank case and have a peek. I told "Marty" what was going on and he said that I should try harder to adjust the clutch. I ALREADY adjusted it to what the clymer manual says but he suggested that I should maybe not follow it TOO closely as every situation is different. So I played with it a little bit and took it out on the road today for about 30 minutes. It was a little better... but not gone. I made a video to help illustrate. How can adjust my clutch if I "reset" everything. Where are the ideal spots for the adjusters at each ends of the cable? What exactly am I feeling for when make an adjustment?
The password to the video is "clutch".

<iframe src="//player.vimeo.com/video/99604233" width="500" height="281" frameborder="0" webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen allowfullscreen></iframe> <p><a href="Not a valid vimeo URL">Clutch adjustment?[/url] from Beau Kelsey on Vimeo.</p>

Thanks a lot guys. Maybe someone wants to make a quick video showing everyone how to do this from the beginning?

fendersrule

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Re: White Smoke, Chattering, Gas Smell, "Clunky" Clutch
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2014, 11:02:15 PM »
Please smell your oil before riding your bike. If it smells like gas, then STOP riding. If your rode for even 1/4 of a mile, you already have done damage to your engine.

Gas in oil = white smoke.

Gas in oil = clutch not working properly.

Gas in oil = oil smells like gas.

Gas in oil = destruction.

« Last Edit: July 01, 2014, 12:50:54 PM by fendersrule »

Offline MotoLion

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Re: White Smoke, Chattering, Gas Smell, &quot;Clunky&quot; Clutch
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2014, 12:29:47 PM »
What if it does smell like gas? What's the solution??


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fendersrule

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Re: White Smoke, Chattering, Gas Smell, "Clunky" Clutch
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2014, 12:52:35 PM »
Leaving your petcock "On" is a usual way that gas enters the engine.

If your oil smells like gas (and if there IS gas in the oil), and you took it out for 30 minutes, you might as well plan on pulling the engine and start replacing items, especially bearings.

Offline MotoLion

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Re: White Smoke, Chattering, Gas Smell, "Clunky" Clutch
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2014, 06:47:48 PM »
Well I drained the oil. It doesn't smell like gas. It looks very normal.... (I think).

Since my oil is drained I decided open the crank case and have a peek at the clutch... except... 2 screws are frozen. I am using Freeze-Off on them right now... I tried twice and it didn't do anything. I am going to get an impact driver to see if that will work right now.

I have new plugs and will be doing a valve adjustment and carb sync. I will post pics of my clutch guts... if I ever get the crank case off.

Thanks for everyones help!
Can someone confirm that my oil looks normal?

I also think the gas smell is coming form the top of the crank case... sometimes after a good ride I will have some gas on there the next day.

Offline Stev-o

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Re: White Smoke, Chattering, Gas Smell, "Clunky" Clutch
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2014, 06:58:24 PM »
An impact driver is a must. If your oil is not real thin nor smell like gas, your good.
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline MotoLion

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Re: White Smoke, Chattering, Gas Smell, "Clunky" Clutch
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2014, 08:16:42 AM »
OKAY, I have a HUGE issue trying to get my crankcase cover off. I had 2 screws that were stuck... I had to drill the tops off and now we are ok. New screws on the way. I took my clutch apart and took a few photos. I am wondering if the friction plates need to be replaced? When the bike is cold the clutch action is amazing... when it warms up... it starts to stick. I also noticed that when I took the plates apart... the friction plates were sticking to the metal spacers. Almost like a suction cup. Also... not sure how to tell if the springs are good or bad... seemed fine to me. 
Check out the video for the clutch action.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/t9i9vyeaalanihm/IMG_3998.MOV.mov

Offline goldarrow

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Re: White Smoke, Chattering, Gas Smell, &quot;Clunky&quot; Clutch
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2014, 08:33:47 AM »
Springs are most likely good to reuse, but still would check the specs against the manual.  I would replace the friction discs since you already have them out
Life Is Full Of Challenges - And My Backyard Is Full Of SOHC4's

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Offline TwoTired

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Re: White Smoke, Chattering, Gas Smell, "Clunky" Clutch
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2014, 09:03:38 AM »
The springs have a height spec in the manual.  Measure them to determine if serviceable.  When the springs fatigue, they collapse (get shorter) and allow the clutch to slip under power.

Both the plates and the discs have a thickness spec in the manual.   Measure them to see if they are serviceable.

Check all plates and discs for flatness.  Warped plates are replaced, as well a those worn beyond service limits.  Worn plates lead to slippage under power.  Warped plates lead to clutch drag.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.