Author Topic: 1974 CB350F1  (Read 12712 times)

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Offline Jo3f1sh

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1974 CB350F1
« on: June 26, 2014, 09:57:24 AM »
So, I decided to start a little project thread for my bike.

I'd wanted a CB350 Four ever since I started seriously looking at bikes, but couldn't find anything locally. The ones that did show up were either asking too much, or were a basket case. I had pretty much given up until I found out that the husband of my wife's cousin had the EXACT bike I was looking for.

For the next year, I basically hounded him to give it up. He finally let it go after his wife became pregnant with their second child and needed to downsize his collection. Since we ere "family" he gave me an amazing deal on the bike, as well as a nice assortment of original parts to go with it. Also, since he's just down the road, he'd be able to help out on anything that I got stuck on with the bike.

When I picked it up, it had been sitting for quite some time. The PO had basically left it in a barn after only 5k miles, but thankfully, it had been a Texas bike, so it didn't have any rust (still has a 1978 Texas inspection sticker on the fender). It had a new front tire, recent carb rebuild (so he said), recovered seat, and new paint on the tank and covers. The mufflers are Mac flare-tips, but are pretty rusty and un-salvageable. They shine up pretty well, though.



Before i took delivery, it was only running on 2 cylinders, so we decided to throw on some new points and do a quick oil change. Once we got it fired up, it was still running pretty rough, and the bowls were leaking gas pretty bad (stuck floats). At this point, I thought I was in over my head, but after giving it a ride around the neighborhood, the bike seemed to be doing better, and started to cleanup under power. We also threw a new older style tire on the back to match the front.



Once I got it home, I knew there was some shine under all that dust, so I started polishing the chrome and paint. And I have to say, it shined up pretty good.



At this point, the parts started rolling in. I wanted to do a slight Cafe look, but also wanted all the modifications to be reversible so the bike could be returned to stock with the original parts.

My first "mod" was to pull the rear grab bar, since I knew I'd be the only one on the bike. I also installed another taillight that was in better shape.



After messing around with the points just to get the bike running, I decided to go with a Pamco electronic ignition and Dyna 5ohm coils to round everything out. I also threw on a set of 7mm wires on the plugs. Good thing, too as the original wire for #1 snapped right off at the boot!







After this, I threw on a Lucas style tail light, as I found the stocker just too bulky. I also put on some new side cover decals as the originals were faded, and even miscolored on the right side. Finally, a set of GT style levers were installed as well.



I had picked up a new set of engine side cover bolts and 18T drive sprocket, but found the both of the top screw heads were completely stripped. So, out came the WD-40, and lots of tools...





With the bolts out/swapped, and sprocket installed, I decided it was time to see if the carbs had truly been rebuilt. Honestly, they looked pretty clean, but the jets were pretty clogged. Cleaned them out with carb cleaner, and they were good as new.



I had been putting off doing the bars for awhile, but finally decided it was time. In the process, I installed a new MC, and stainless brake lines. The longest part was shaving the control housings to run the wires out of them. In the process, I managed to pull out the kill switch wire, and also stripped the starter wire so it was grounding out on the bars, causing it to stick.

My wife helped rectify that problem:





You may have noticed the Dickey's cup next to the caliper. There's a reason for that. The PO (Not sure which one) decided to ditch the bleeder screw, and dropped in a HUGE bolt on the caliper instead. Because of this, it won't seal on the caliper anymore, so fluid constantly leaks out. GREAT.

So, here she sits until my new caliper, piston, seal, and hardline come in...





Fortunately, it's been raining every day here (in Texas?!), so I haven't really been able to ride anyway. Still frustrating to get this far, only to have a stupid decision by someone else keep you from finishing the job.

Oh well, she still sounds pretty good.

Startup and Rev...

Stay tuned for more updates. Next on the list are turn signals, a new set of mufflers, and rear shocks. Haven't decided on stock or upgraded dampers yet...
1974 Honda CB350 Four

Build thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=138848.0

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: 1974 CB350F1
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2014, 10:09:21 AM »
It starts and runs well (I assume it was warmed up before you shot the video). 

Since your other bike appears to be a VFR1200, I'm curious as to why you were particularly drawn to a CB350F -- why such a smaller displacement bike versus a 450 or 550 if you wanted a smaller, lighter bike.  Was it an aesthetic choice, or a desire to get a lightweight or learner's bike?  I really like how light my 550 is and handles, but I find it a little buzzy at freeway speeds and underpowered. 
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Offline Jo3f1sh

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Re: 1974 CB350F1
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2014, 10:27:55 AM »
Actually, that is my wife's bike. It's a CBR250R.

Also, this is my first bike. I just passed my BRC and got my M-class cert on my license, and wanted a smaller lighter bike to learn on, while also having something i could tinker with. Plus I've always loved the style of these bikes, and loved the small inline 4 / 4-stroke engine.

My plan is to upgrade to a 550 or 750 at some point, while hopefully being able to hold on to this one.

This start was after it had ran for about 1 minute. It really doesn't need much choke, and it's pretty warm down here anyhow.
1974 Honda CB350 Four

Build thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=138848.0

Offline flybox1

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Re: 1974 CB350F1
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2014, 12:08:40 PM »
Hey Jo3f1sh, the 350F is the perfect bike to learn on.  Youve done a great job with it so far.
Just a couple of suggestions since mine was identical except for the color.
Shorter bars, like euro bars, make a HUGE difference in stability when cornering.  Way better leverage than the stock mini-apes....
Mine always seemed to run a little lean at 1/2 to WOT with those 2 into 1 Jardines pipes.  I went from #75 to #78 mains and it made a huge difference in smoothing out acceleration from 6k - 10k rpm in any gear.

It turned out in troubleshooting with HondaMan, 24mm is a more appropriate float level for these carbs.  Yours may be just fine at the stated 21mm, but i was constantly battling intermittent overflow tube pissing, and a rich condition at idle that would not go away with air screw adjustments.
a few tests and my fuel level in the bowls was too high.  24mm made it perfect and I never had another issue.

Not suggesting you make changes....'m only stating this in case you run into issues later on.
cheers....and nice work!  8)

fly


'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
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Offline Jo3f1sh

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Re: 1974 CB350F1
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2014, 12:40:13 PM »
Thank you very much for the suggestions! I will definitely keep those in mind. Once i get it back out on the road and actually put some miles on the new setup, I'll see what adjustments need to be made. I'll definitely do the float adjustment like you mentioned.

I noticed it had a little hesitation at 1/2 throttle, but this was with the stock points and before the real carb clean/rebuild. Also, since these rusty pipes are basically swiss cheese on the bottoms, i'm sure i'm losing some smoothness because of it. I'd like to get some replacements, but it seems you can only find them straight from MAC now for quite the premium. I just haven't found any other pipes that I like that keep the classic look (other than stockers...which I definitely can't afford).

BTW, love the white on yours. Almost went with those bars (400F's?) but ultimately went for the drags as it was the best compromise between those and the clubmans.
1974 Honda CB350 Four

Build thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=138848.0

Offline flybox1

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Re: 1974 CB350F1
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2014, 01:02:11 PM »
^ Those are Euro bars ($20) compared to the $80 or so for OEM 400F bars.  It totally changed the look and feel.
Sorry your pipes are wasted.  The Jardines are the  looking ones other than OEM/MIVV's...
PM me anytime if you need....
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline jamesv220820

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Re: 1974 CB350F1
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2014, 11:38:37 AM »
did you have any issues installing the dyna coils to the original mounting?  I was thinking about switching my coils but don't want to if it bangs into the tank or needs fabrication to fit

-james
There is nothing to fear but fear itself . . . and trying to restore a cb350f

Offline Jo3f1sh

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Re: 1974 CB350F1
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2014, 12:17:34 PM »
I did have to dremel out the original mounting points for the Dyna coils to fit. The metal is pretty soft, so it wasn't too big of a deal. I was also able to re-use the original screws and even holes in the mount.



I only had to shave off the front part of the mount where the original coil slides in as the dyna coils are thicker. This was done on all 4 mounting points.

Don't let that put you off, though! It was super simple, and I can still install OEM coils if I wanted to. Also, the Dyna's have plenty of clearance and do not bump into or touch the tank.
1974 Honda CB350 Four

Build thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=138848.0

Offline jamesv220820

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Re: 1974 CB350F1
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2014, 03:56:27 PM »
I did have to dremel out the original mounting points for the Dyna coils to fit. The metal is pretty soft, so it wasn't too big of a deal. I was also able to re-use the original screws and even holes in the mount.



I only had to shave off the front part of the mount where the original coil slides in as the dyna coils are thicker. This was done on all 4 mounting points.

Don't let that put you off, though! It was super simple, and I can still install OEM coils if I wanted to. Also, the Dyna's have plenty of clearance and do not bump into or touch the tank.

thanks for the advice!
There is nothing to fear but fear itself . . . and trying to restore a cb350f

Offline Jo3f1sh

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Re: 1974 CB350F1
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2014, 09:12:47 AM »
So, I found out why I could never get the bleeder to seal. The PO's genius idea of using a bolt instead of an actual bleeder screw caused the caliper to crack at the bleeder hole.



Fortuately, I had decided to just order a new caliper instead of waiting for a larger bleed screw. I'm glad I did.

Installed the new caliper, speed bleeder, and had the system working perfectly in less than an hour.



I also finally installed a set of turn signals. I'll have pictures of those later today.
1974 Honda CB350 Four

Build thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=138848.0

Offline Jo3f1sh

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Re: 1974 CB350F1
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2014, 08:42:45 PM »
Signals installed. Not a fan of how they make the rear look kinda busy, but I figured I'd play it safe and put them on. Stock flasher relay was toast, so I swung by the auto parts store and grabbed an electronic one that works great. Front flashers are on, too. Just hard to see in this shot.



Trying to decide if I should paint the rear ones black to match the frame. Thoughts?
1974 Honda CB350 Four

Build thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=138848.0

Offline HondanutRider

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Re: 1974 CB350F1
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2014, 05:01:27 AM »
Earlier on you mentioned: "I also put on some new side cover decals as the originals were faded, and even miscolored on the right side." 

Looking at your before pictures, it looks like the right side was actually the correct original decals for your 1974 model.  They changed the color combination for that year from the previous two years.  You now have matching decals from the 1972-73 model.  Also, the color of the 1974 bike would originally been Glory Blue Black Metallic - the only one it came in that year.

Offline Jo3f1sh

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Re: 1974 CB350F1
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2014, 05:26:36 AM »
Sorry, I always get the sides mixed up on this bike. I was thinking right side when looking at the bike from the front, but yes, the left side was incorrect when sitting on the bike.  :o

And, yup! Only color offered that year. Sometime down the line, I may get the bike repainted in the original color. I've actually already bought the tank decal kit for it as well, but didn't want to install it on the current color since it's obviously not the original one.
1974 Honda CB350 Four

Build thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=138848.0

Offline Jo3f1sh

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Re: 1974 CB350F1
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2014, 05:13:26 AM »
So i'm now having a strange issue. Unless I snap the throttle back pretty quickly, the engine won't return to idle properly. If I rev the engine, and slowly release the throttle, the RPM's hang at about 3k. If I rev it and quickly release the throttle (Like in the video above), it will return to a ~ 1k idle. I find I'm having to do this every time I come to a stop, or else the engine will just sit there at 3k.

I've replaced the throttle cables, throttle tube, verified there's no kinks in the lines, and just had the carbs cleaned and rebuilt...I turn to the experts!
1974 Honda CB350 Four

Build thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=138848.0

Offline nk140

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Re: 1974 CB350F1
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2014, 05:17:40 AM »
Sounds like the throttle return spring is getting hung up somehow.  The abrupt snap means it has enough spring energy to power past its sticking point.

Offline HondanutRider

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Re: 1974 CB350F1
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2014, 05:21:49 AM »
You probably should disconnect the throttle cables and work the carb linkage by hand to look for binding of the shaft or loose or hung-up return spring.  With the cables disconnected, you also can check for their possible binding.

Offline Jo3f1sh

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Re: 1974 CB350F1
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2014, 05:25:50 AM »
Looking at the spring, I can see it return back like normal when I release the throttle slowly and quickly (I'll have to get a video of it). I thought that might be it as well, but it looks like everything closes properly in both cases. I do notice a slight hang on the carbs when slowly releasing, but it does close completely when fully released. It's just not a fully smooth transaction from open to closed.

I'd be nice if it was something that (somewhat) simple.
1974 Honda CB350 Four

Build thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=138848.0

Offline Kemp

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Re: 1974 CB350F1
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2014, 07:14:09 AM »
That can also occur if the carbs are out of sync or if you have an air leak at the intake manifold or carb rubber boots

Offline Jo3f1sh

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Re: 1974 CB350F1
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2014, 08:14:43 AM »
Come to think of it, I don't think these carbs have ever been synced. I may start with that.
1974 Honda CB350 Four

Build thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=138848.0

Offline bjbuchanan

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Re: 1974 CB350F1
« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2014, 08:02:57 PM »
Check the routing of your cables. Smooth bends with no hang ups. A common spot to 'stick' is on the brake splitter. I used a little zip tie to just hold the cables up where they couldn't fall down around my brake splitter.

Another thought, did the pamco replace all of the ignition, including the advancer cam setup? If not check that out for free movement (grease it up with regular auto grease) and maybe trim a half turn off of your springs. Helps to snap it back to idle as the springs lose their tension over time, mechanical fatigue.

An air/vacuum leak is usually erratic idle and won't go down for you, regardless of fiddling. My money is on the cable routing, especially where they go under, around the tank
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Round top carbs w/ 38 pilots, middle needle position, airscrew 7/8ths out, 122 main jet
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Offline jamesv220820

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Re: 1974 CB350F1
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2014, 01:23:02 PM »
Signals installed. Not a fan of how they make the rear look kinda busy, but I figured I'd play it safe and put them on. Stock flasher relay was toast, so I swung by the auto parts store and grabbed an electronic one that works great. Front flashers are on, too. Just hard to see in this shot.



Trying to decide if I should paint the rear ones black to match the frame. Thoughts?

I think they look great! maybe cause that is the same setup i have on my bike ;)  You think it looks busy back there, put the grab rail on then the turn signal stems then the turn signals ;)  If you still think it is too busy install a hoop on the back (http://www.dimecitycycles.com/vintage-cafe-racer-caferacer-chassis-frame-parts-dcc-originals-rear-steel-seat-hoop-section-tail-dcc-350450cafetail.html)
Then put a LED strip light with integrated turn signals.

Or another option is to relocated the blinkers again (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-3NggXwKMsIA/UhOXEiDtJlI/AAAAAAAAASk/gfsfvCv6N54/s1600/P1017323.JPG)

There is nothing to fear but fear itself . . . and trying to restore a cb350f

Offline Jo3f1sh

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Re: 1974 CB350F1
« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2014, 06:52:30 AM »
Check the routing of your cables. Smooth bends with no hang ups. A common spot to 'stick' is on the brake splitter. I used a little zip tie to just hold the cables up where they couldn't fall down around my brake splitter.

Another thought, did the pamco replace all of the ignition, including the advancer cam setup? If not check that out for free movement (grease it up with regular auto grease) and maybe trim a half turn off of your springs. Helps to snap it back to idle as the springs lose their tension over time, mechanical fatigue.

An air/vacuum leak is usually erratic idle and won't go down for you, regardless of fiddling. My money is on the cable routing, especially where they go under, around the tank
Actually, the Pamco does replace the advancer cam. However, I didn't have any grease on hand at the time and planned on doing that once after I got the bike up and running again after the install. Now that I have some, I'll pull it off and grease it. I've also heard about the springs. When installing the ignition, the springs seemed pretty good (Bike only has 5k miles), but I might look into it if all else fails.

Thank you for the suggestions! Otherwise, the bike is running fantastic.

Or another option is to relocated the blinkers again (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-3NggXwKMsIA/UhOXEiDtJlI/AAAAAAAAASk/gfsfvCv6N54/s1600/P1017323.JPG)

That's exactly what I'm looking for. Any ideas on where to find one?
« Last Edit: July 07, 2014, 06:57:00 AM by Jo3f1sh »
1974 Honda CB350 Four

Build thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=138848.0

Offline jamesv220820

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Re: 1974 CB350F1
« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2014, 09:20:34 AM »
Check the routing of your cables. Smooth bends with no hang ups. A common spot to 'stick' is on the brake splitter. I used a little zip tie to just hold the cables up where they couldn't fall down around my brake splitter.

Another thought, did the pamco replace all of the ignition, including the advancer cam setup? If not check that out for free movement (grease it up with regular auto grease) and maybe trim a half turn off of your springs. Helps to snap it back to idle as the springs lose their tension over time, mechanical fatigue.

An air/vacuum leak is usually erratic idle and won't go down for you, regardless of fiddling. My money is on the cable routing, especially where they go under, around the tank
Actually, the Pamco does replace the advancer cam. However, I didn't have any grease on hand at the time and planned on doing that once after I got the bike up and running again after the install. Now that I have some, I'll pull it off and grease it. I've also heard about the springs. When installing the ignition, the springs seemed pretty good (Bike only has 5k miles), but I might look into it if all else fails.

Thank you for the suggestions! Otherwise, the bike is running fantastic.

Or another option is to relocated the blinkers again (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-3NggXwKMsIA/UhOXEiDtJlI/AAAAAAAAASk/gfsfvCv6N54/s1600/P1017323.JPG)

That's exactly what I'm looking for. Any ideas on where to find one?

Ive only seen them on triumph sites and they are expensive

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TRIUMPH-TAIL-LIGHT-TURN-SIGNALS-ADAPTER-KIT-BONNEVILLE-SCRAMBLER-THRUXTON-LUCAS-/271540915518?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f39198d3e&vxp=mtr

http://www.newbonneville.com/html/complete_bolt_on_light_kit.html


Honestly if you wanted to go that path I would just hit the hardware store up.  To me all it really looks like is just standard stems with a cover/shell over it

cheers
There is nothing to fear but fear itself . . . and trying to restore a cb350f

Offline jamesv220820

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Re: 1974 CB350F1
« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2014, 09:58:09 AM »
Actually I just did a test the front turn signal stems would work perfectly so all you would do is drill a hole to accommodate them.  Plus they are chrome so it would match perfectly!

cheers

-james

Also if you wanted to get really creative you could use the front stems and add tiny turn signals by the tail light and keep the back ones where they are now and install a sequencer and make your rear turn signals sequential but maybe that is too much :)
« Last Edit: July 07, 2014, 10:09:50 AM by jamesv220820 »
There is nothing to fear but fear itself . . . and trying to restore a cb350f

Offline Davidov

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Re: 1974 CB350F1
« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2014, 07:30:13 PM »


You may have noticed the Dickey's cup next to the caliper. There's a reason for that. The PO (Not sure which one) decided to ditch the bleeder screw, and dropped in a HUGE bolt on the caliper instead. Because of this, it won't seal on the caliper anymore, so fluid constantly leaks out. GREAT.

Dickies cups have a wide array of purposes in my garage as well.  ;)
« Last Edit: July 07, 2014, 07:34:32 PM by Davidov »
-David