Topic: Scare tactics//Statistics//New Rider//

[cbparakeet]

This is in no way intended to disrespect fallen riders or families/friends of those who have died riding.

The statistics and scare tactics that people frequently cite and use don't bother me one bit. I'm still getting my bike. I believe that the majority of motorcyclists killed on the streets are #$%*ing #$%*s to begin with. I'm sure there have been very safe riders out there that were killed under poor circumstances where there was nothing they could do (hit by drunk driver etc.) but the exception doesn't make the rule. I have no experience riding yet, but I'm willing to put my life (as I will have to in order to ride) on the fact that if you wear the proper gear, educate and experience as much as you can on a bike (msf and beyond) and remain responsible, you will GREATLY (not completely) reduce much of the risk that is out there.

Again, I'm looking for a discussion here, I didn't post this topic to flame or make light of motorcycle accidents. What are your thoughts?

(and where do these so called 'scare tactics' come from? I know people who know people who know people who were killed but does that actually prove anything???)

Thanks.

- parakeet

[bwaller]

Not sure what scare tactics you're talking about. If you're about to be a new rider though consider taking a safety course, everyone can learn something. No sense being dead right!!

[ekpent]

I have ridden bikes of some kind or another now for over 40 years. But I will say that I totaled out my car earlier this spring from a lady running a red light and it has showed me that even though I was a professional truck driver, careful driver, etc etc that bad things can happen real quick. I have not put as many miles on my bike as normal yet this summer and when I do ride I am more focused now more then ever, maybe even a tad bit paranoid.

[fendersrule]

Learning to ride a motorcycle isn't something you "graduate" to. It's an on-going learning process for the rest of your life.

Take SEVERAL training courses and work your way up and ALWAYS be willing to learn.

[Stev-o]

Not sure what scare tactics you're talking about.

+1.  You seem to have a real attitude about accidents.  They happen for a variety of reasons. 

I was sitting on my bike at a red light and got hit.  Is that a scare tactic?

[Sami1987]

I have been riding for 46 years and
Still learn every year! In 1970 I was
Hit by a left turner that I was passing
On a 4 lane road. The lady that hit
Me said her son would never ride  bike.
I told her it was she that was wrong.
But you can't stop your son from riding
If he really wants to. I was at a stop -
Light and was rear-ended in 1980. No
Paint swapping since then but lots of
Close calls. +1 on safety courses. Ride
to live literally. Good luck on the bike.

[faux fiddy]

Dirt bikes are a great way to hone your skill. The surface is challenging, but forgiving.

Other than that I know of one fatality from a ladder that wasn't tied to a truck well enough and traffic was heavy so the guy had no out.

Lesson is stay out from behind any loads especially ones  that look sketchy.

[Retro Rocket]

Not sure what scare tactics you're talking about.

+1.  You seem to have a real attitude about accidents.  They happen for a variety of reasons. 

I was sitting on my bike at a red light and got hit.  Is that a scare tactic?

Agreed, i was totaled by an idiot overtaking me while sideways in the rain on a right hand corner, and i've had hundreds of near misses due to others errors.  Noobs shouldn't go making blanket statements about something they really have NO IDEA about on a forum filled with people with actual LIFE EXPERIENCES. You want discussion..?  Hows this, Go do all your courses, grow some eyes in the back of your head, never drop your guard, develop a sixth sense and if you make it back in 5 years please tell us this story again, I garantee you its changed... There's an idiot in a car waiting to test your skills EVERY time you get on your bike mate, you want to learn that pretty quick or get yourself some life insurance...

[trueblue]

I nearly put my 650 into a barbed wire fence a few months back.  I was travelling a road I had ridden many times before, but hadn't been down for a couple of months.  We had had nearly 6 months without rain and the ground had moved when it dried out.  I came into a left hander that I have rounded dozens of times at the same speed I always did, as I laid the bike into the corner the rear wheel started hopping on the bumps, like corrugations, that never used to be there.  I had no choice but to stand the bike up and run it off the road.  Thankfully there were no oncoming cars.  Tell you what, it is a whole other experience rounding a corner with you left foot out feeling the dirt, on opposite lock and the arse end hanging wide on a 650/4.  If I hadn't ridden dirt bikes since I was 12 I would have been up #$%* creek, as it was my arse was well and truly puckered when I came out of the corner shiny side up.  Essentially, you have to be prepared for any situation at any time when you are riding bikes, even if you know the road.  You can't afford to switch off, if you do you run a huge risk of catching a fatal case of dead.  No scare tactics involved.

[petercb750]

I'm a riding instructor, so what do you reckon I'm going to say......get some fkn training mate!!!!
And as others have said, expect the unexpected, be defensive and scan ahead, always ride within your comfort limits, and never ever assume you have been seen.
You are responsible for your own safety - it's no good blaming every other driver on the road if you didn't do everything in your power to protect yourself and give yourself the best opportunities for survival. Don't put your life in other people's hands.
Enjoy.

[70CB750]

Not sure what scare tactics you're talking about.

+1.  You seem to have a real attitude about accidents.  They happen for a variety of reasons. 

I was sitting on my bike at a red light and got hit.  Is that a scare tactic?

 There's an idiot in a car waiting to test your skills EVERY time you get on your bike mate, you want to learn that pretty quick or get yourself some life insurance...

Not just that, the road throws you a curve ball every so often.  Sand and gravel washed out from an overflow creek, #$%*s who blow grass clippings on the road in tight turn, animals with no sense of self preservation whatsaever, stupid mothers in minivans yapping on the cell phone, deep holes on perfectly good and flat pavement, mud from the field from a tractor, manhole cover, repaired cracks in the pavement can be slippery - it is a new experience every time you ride.

[grcamna2]

Please take to heart all these warnings from us previous posters and I think also you might want to view the video series 'Street Smarts' for some excellent skills & tips.
Keep all eyes open and scan for debris+ rocks in the road;a man I knew of had to lay it down at speed because of a large stone in his lane and has been in and out of intensive care for weeks

[trueblue]

Please take to heart all these warnings from us previous posters and I think also you might want to view the video series 'Street Smarts' for some excellent skills & tips.
Keep all eyes open and scan for debris+ rocks in the road;a man I knew of had to lay it down at speed because of a large stone in his lane and has been in and out of intensive care for weeks

On the topic of rocks a good mate of mine ended up with two broken legs and a bike laying on top of him because of a rock on the crest of a hill which he never saw in his headlight. Not to mention it was in the middle of nowhere. He was just lucky a car came the other way a few minutes later. Had someone been following they probably wouldn't have seen him where he was laying on the road.

[calj737]

I think those with no actual experience issue scare statistics and anecdotes. Those with actual riding experience will tell you the same thing again and again, riding takes 100% concentration, 100% determination, 100% skills! and a big bag of luck. Anyone can ride, many shouldn't. Anyone that does ride, can become a better driver and a good rider, if they absorb all sound advice, commit to ongoing training, and practice good skills.

Motorcycles are like the game of chess: easy to learn, a lifetime to master.

If you adopt a different attitude than this, you will be a statistic. Guaranteed. It's God's perverse opportunity to thin the gene pool. Only question is; are you swimming in the shallow end or the deep end?

Buy the best helmet you can afford, wear proper gear ALWAYS, and take annual training course to constantly hone your skills.

And best of luck to you-

[madmtnmotors]

Not sure what scare tactics you're talking about.

+1.  You seem to have a real attitude about accidents.  They happen for a variety of reasons. 

I was sitting on my bike at a red light and got hit.  Is that a scare tactic?

Agreed, i was totaled by an idiot overtaking me while sideways in the rain on a right hand corner, and i've had hundreds of near misses due to others errors.  Noobs shouldn't go making blanket statements about something they really have NO IDEA about on a forum filled with people with actual LIFE EXPERIENCES. You want discussion..?  Hows this, Go do all your courses, grow some eyes in the back of your head, never drop your guard, develop a sixth sense and if you make it back in 5 years please tell us this story again, I garantee you its changed... There's an idiot in a car waiting to test your skills EVERY time you get on your bike mate, you want to learn that pretty quick or get yourself some life insurance...

I think those with no actual experience issue scare statistics and anecdotes. Those with actual riding experience will tell you the same thing again and again, riding takes 100% concentration, 100% determination, 100% skills! and a big bag of luck. Anyone can ride, many shouldn't. Anyone that does ride, can become a better driver and a good rider, if they absorb all sound advice, commit to ongoing training, and practice good skills.

Motorcycles are like the game of chess: easy to learn, a lifetime to master.

If you adopt a different attitude than this, you will be a statistic. Guaranteed. It's God's perverse opportunity to thin the gene pool. Only question is; are you swimming in the shallow end or the deep end?

Buy the best helmet you can afford, wear proper gear ALWAYS, and take annual training course to constantly hone your skills.

And best of luck to you-

All well put. Riding a motorcycle should be scary! It's part of the thrill. There's the added challenge of trying not to get killed! The continuous near-death experience is part of the reason I ride...

I would like to add "Proficient Motorcycling" to the list of suggested reading:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1889540536/?tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=40089589807&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=10115070700687750168&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_1rgecszbte_b

As well as "More Proficient Motorcycling":

http://www.amazon.com/More-Proficient-Motorcycling-Mastering-Ride/dp/1931993033

A Gremlin Bell wouldn't hurt either:

http://www.gremlinbells.com/

[HondanutRider]

I'm a riding instructor, so what do you reckon I'm going to say......get some fkn training mate!!!!
And as others have said, expect the unexpected, be defensive and scan ahead, always ride within your comfort limits, and never ever assume you have been seen.
You are responsible for your own safety - it's no good blaming every other driver on the road if you didn't do everything in your power to protect yourself and give yourself the best opportunities for survival. Don't put your life in other people's hands.
Enjoy.

+++  This is the best advice!

P.S.  I hate it when someone says: "I had to lay it down."    I think not!

[Vicman]

Buy the best helmet you can afford, wear proper gear ALWAYS,

Lifetime rider here too.
I don't encourage people who didn't grow up with the need to ride bikes. I even tell them riding on the street is a simple equation... ride=crash. As mentioned before you never know where it's going to come from. The other thing that comes out of my mouth is quoted above, best helmet and gear you can afford and ALWAYS wear it.

[Duke McDukiedook]

Most of all drive at a speed where you can maneuver from any problem whether you are on a turn, straight or intersection.

[fendersrule]

Buy the best helmet you can afford, wear proper gear ALWAYS,

Lifetime rider here too.
I don't encourage people who didn't grow up with the need to ride bikes. I even tell them riding on the street is a simple equation... ride=crash. As mentioned before you never know where it's going to come from. The other thing that comes out of my mouth is quoted above, best helmet and gear you can afford and ALWAYS wear it.

some people have ridden many years without a single crash/incident. While I agree that this saying is true for must, It's obviously not a law or is even true all the time.

[Vicman]

    Quote

        Buy the best helmet you can afford, wear proper gear ALWAYS,


    Lifetime rider here too.
    I don't encourage people who didn't grow up with the need to ride bikes. I even tell them riding on the street is a simple equation... ride=crash. As mentioned before you never know where it's going to come from. The other thing that comes out of my mouth is quoted above, best helmet and gear you can afford and ALWAYS wear it.


some people have ridden many years without a single crash/incident. While I agree that this saying is true for must, It's obviously not a law or is even true all the time.

The golden BB is out there for everyone.
I personally feel like there are two kinds of riders out there. Ones that have dropped a skoot and ones that haven't...yet.

[cbparakeet]

Thanks for all of the responses, I'm really taking what everyone said very seriously.

Like I said, I wasn't trying to flame, or troll or come across like an #$%* with an attitude.

I meant scare tactics like, when your friend or something just tells you straight up the moment you mention you want to ride "oh you're gonna kill yourself" or the whole "donor cycle" #$%*, trying to "scare" me out of buying a motorcycle. Basically people with 0 experience riding telling me right off the bat that I'm going to die if I buy a motorcycle. I'm not saying there isn't a chance, but I don't like people telling me what I want to do is bull#$%*, I'm a musician as well, I can't stand it when people tell me "there's no money in music"  or "I was in a band once, we never made it so you won't either" and all that bull#$%*.

And again, I meant absolutely no disrespect to riders, I know I have 0 experience, I just wanted honest opinions.
I intend on taking the most responsible route possible by educating myself as much as possible through information/experiences from other riders and also from what I'll learn myself. I appreciate the feedback.

[fendersrule]

Hey, I'm in a band, and was in many. I would gladly say that there isn't any money in it. As long as I've been playing with a band (10 years over 5 different areas) we have never made anything worth bragging about (and we played some awesome stuff). Nowadays, you're lucky to get free drinks on the house. Point being, you don't play in a band to make money--you play to have fun! If your goal is to make a living, that's the wrong reason to play IMO. Restoring motorcycles and cars is the same way...if you're in it to make money, then I bid you good luck!

Just like you don't ride to crash. You ride to have fun. If it helps, I was a new rider 2 years ago. I still am a new rider. We all should act like new riders. I ride 8 months out of the year, every single day. I've taken 3 motorcycle training classes (fourth one that I'm enlisted in comes up in the fall which experienced police officers have to take and has a large failure rate...it is TOUGH). I've taken several small trips. I interview all of my friends about their incidents and how they felt like they could avoid them. Most of my riding partners are motorcycle training instructors and I get constant coaching on everything I do. They think I am a good rider, but I want to keep improving.

There is ALWAYS something you can do a vast majority of the time on the road. Motorcycling isn't like being dumped into an ocean with swarming sharks and there's nothing you can do. There's things you can do even to avoid being hit, even while stopped at a red light. Rare unthinkable #$%* still happens, but a huge majority is avoidable with the proper training and experience. Rider's situational awareness = defensive driving comes into it (some people severely lack this and still ride).

Those who say training doesn't matter seriously needs to get a grip on reality. Ask any motorcycle training instructor and they will tell you that some of the seasoned riders make some of the worst mistakes over and over again--and they are hard headed to learn any different because it "worked for them"....so far at least. Experience + Training is the key.

Motorcycling is like martial arts. It's a constant progression, and there is no "highest level". It finally make sense why it's a "sport" and not just an activity...

You're already asking the right questions which means you take safety #1. Motorcycling is about safety first, then fun second. Most people who ride have that backwards. You'll do fine.

[cbparakeet]

Not sure what scare tactics you're talking about.

+1.  You seem to have a real attitude about accidents.  They happen for a variety of reasons. 

I was sitting on my bike at a red light and got hit.  Is that a scare tactic?

Agreed, i was totaled by an idiot overtaking me while sideways in the rain on a right hand corner, and i've had hundreds of near misses due to others errors.  Noobs shouldn't go making blanket statements about something they really have NO IDEA about on a forum filled with people with actual LIFE EXPERIENCES. You want discussion..?  Hows this, Go do all your courses, grow some eyes in the back of your head, never drop your guard, develop a sixth sense and if you make it back in 5 years please tell us this story again, I garantee you its changed... There's an idiot in a car waiting to test your skills EVERY time you get on your bike mate, you want to learn that pretty quick or get yourself some life insurance...

You're probably right and I respect what you're saying. I wasn't making any blanket statements I was trying to explain what is going on in my head right now, three weeks out from getting my first motorcycle. So I'm a noob, but I'd rather look like an #$%* noob on a forum, asking a real question than not asking anything at all. Thanks.

[cbparakeet]

Hey, I'm in a band, and was in many. I would gladly say that there isn't any money in it. As long as I've been playing with a band (10 years over 5 different areas) we have never made anything worth bragging about (and we played some awesome stuff). Nowadays, you're lucky to get free drinks on the house. Point being, you don't play in a band to make money--you play to have fun! If you're goal is to make a living, that's the wrong reason to play IMO. Restoring motorcycles and cars is the same way...if you're in it to make money, then good luck!

Just like you don't ride to crash. You ride to have fun. If it helps, I was a new rider 2 years ago. I still am a new rider. We all should act like new riders. I ride 8 months out of the year, every single day. I've taken 3 motorcycle training classes (fourth one that I'm enlisted in comes up in the fall which experienced police officers have to take and has a large failure rate...it is TOUGH). I've took several small trips. I interview all of my friends about their incidents and how they felt like they could avoid them. There is ALWAYS something you can do a vast majority of the time. Motorcycling isn't like being dumped into an ocean with swarming sharks and there's nothing you can do. There's things you can do even to avoid being hit while stopped at a red light. Rare unthinkable #$%* still happens, but a huge majority is avoidable with the proper training and experience. Rider's situational awareness = defensive driving comes into it (some people severely lack this).

Those who say training doesn't matter seriously needs to get a grip on reality. Ask any motorcycle training instructor and they will tell you that some of the seasoned riders make some of the worst mistakes over and over again. Experience + Training is the key.

Motorcycling is like martial arts. It's a constant progression, and there is no "highest level".

You're already asking the right questions which means you take safety #1. MOtorcycling is about safety first, then fun second. Most people who ride have that backwards. You'll do fine.

Thanks fendersrule. Yeah I know there isn't much money in music, I was talking about the things people say to try and shake your confidence in something.

The way I see it, when somebody steps up to do something that will lead to defining moments in their life, and they want to take it seriously, there's hundreds of people out there, lined up to try and talk them out of doing what it is they want, hoping that the person will slip back into mediocrity, along with the majority of people in the world. I feel this way about riding (and music of course). This is something that I've wanted to do for a while and I'm taking it very seriously. Thanks for the feedback.

[dave500]

try and find some friends to ride with but not in too large groups 3 or 4 is plenty,dont ride with people who turn every outing into a race,dont try and ride as fast as someone with more experience than you.