Topic: Scare tactics//Statistics//New Rider//

[petercb750]

Very true, training is generally a neutral environment, it teaches some bike control skills, gives examples of what to do and what not to do, braking skills etc to novices or those returning to biking after a long break. But nothing teaches like doing.
Like retro, I've had lots of experiences and near misses in 43 years of riding on our roads, skills sometimes have saved my butt, sometimes luck....mostly the latter probably.
When the time comes for fenders,  and he's picking up bits of his bike off the road (and I certainly do not wish that upon him) I hope he re-visits this thread and realises what a dick he's made of himself and that he's not perfect and such an awesome rider because he rides with people who apparently are.
Sorry to the OP for a bit of a thread hijack, but some people really cause sh1t with the dribble they produce, but hang in there and take from this thread some of the positive and productive comments and suggestions.

[trueblue]

It is really impressive the amount of #$%* that fenders can dribble.  I've never seen a more impressive amount of dribble in one thread... except for the 450 thread that is

There seems to be a common denominator there.   

[Stev-o]

the 450 thread

Now, that was impressive!

[mick7504]

the 450 thread

[/quote


Now, that was impressive!

[petercb750]

Oh oh....

[ken65]

i can't see any problem learning to go 15 miles an hour around witches hats in a car park. you have to learn somewhere.

[HondanutRider]

Hmm... ...to get back on topic:

A while back there was some description of various lane positions when riding on a two-lane right-side of the road.  Mostly the information was agreeable to me.  However , there was something not quite to my liking (and experience as a M/C instructor for over 10 years ) in the description of making right-hand turns.  Specifically it was described that one should move over to the right side of the lane when making a right turn, so as to block the curb lane.  A better strategy is to approach the stop in the left tire track and angle the bike across the lane at the stop.  This should place the front tire in the right tire track (blocking the curb), keeping the rear tire in the left tire track (making the bike more visible from behind with a larger profile showing). AND making the sharp right turn from a stop easier to accomplish.  This maneuver should make it easier to stay in the correct lane since from a stop you have already turned the bike probably half-way. 

Sad story, but the other year a new rider was killed about 3 miles from where I live when she pulled out onto a highway making a right turn from a stop, and went wide directly into the path of an oncoming vehicle.

[demon78]

Ok I think that you get the idea, get your safety courses, read, think, practice, think, think, and yes there will by contradictory information out there, so think, practice, this is an individual sport so you think about what works for you, I read some of the more important treatises on bikes and tried what I could and thought about it tried and modified my practice on what worked for me, it wasn't until I drove a bike on icy roads that I really understood what balance, body position, steering, and sensory input meant and once I understood, I could stop and analyze what was going on and correct for bad driving habits, misinformation, distractions and so on, of course I'm weird like that and not all people are the same so the main thing is think and practice.
Bill the demon. 

[HondanutRider]

...short delay while I made some popcorn...

Other posts have mentioned about riding in the center of the lane being the "best position".  Generally this is not the case.  In fact some people will never ride there as it doesn't provide any rear blocking of the lane and debris tends to accumulate in this location.  As well, many roads develop quite a hump in the middle of the lane and riding on top of that can be a challenge with more irregularities.  Sometimes, the centre is appropriate if on a multi-lane highway with traffic flowing on each side...and there are other instances when it momentarily may be appropriate.

Speaking of multi-lane highways, generally we avoid the centre lanes for prolonged travel.  The curb lane should be ridden in the tire track that gives the best blocking and visibility - the left tire track on rods where we ride and drive on the right side of the road.  On multi-lane highways, the curb lane is the desired lane to ride in.  However, there are times when in the passing or extreme left lane is ridden, and then for visibility and for blocking, you should ride in the right tire track.  "Blocking" BTW means that we try to prevent lane sharing by other vehicles - it also gives us better visibility to see and be seen, as well as giving us room to move/swerve while staying in our lane and on the road if someone cuts us off.

Another thing mentioned was about approaching large vehicles coming in the opposite direction on a two-lane road.  A good practice is to swing out into the right tire track (from the normally traveled left).  This is done to make us more visible to following traffic behind the large vehicle and also to allow us to see sooner any vehicle that might be tucked-up close behind the large vehicle and about to pass.  On dirty or wet roads, this maneuver also gets us out of the stream of debris that might be thrown up by the wake from the large vehicle.  The maneuver isn't to avoid the wind blast from the wake nor fear of being sucked-in by it.

[MikeKato]

My biggest fear is the "courtious drivers" that leave open a gap in traffic at stop lights so oncoming traffic can cross.  If I'm in the right lane of a 3 lane highway, I want those 2 lanes to my left blocking traffic,not inviting traffic to pull out and help themselves to my lane. In my opinion any accident that happens when people do that is directly the falt of those "nice people" that figured they could design a better traffic flow then those that get paid to do it.

P.s. not to get into the argument, but anyone that has rode 15,000 miles without a close call is simply not paying attention.

Best of Luck!
Mike

[Vicman]

...short delay while I made some popcorn...

Other posts have mentioned about riding in the center of the lane being the "best position".  Generally this is not the case.  In fact some people will never ride there as it doesn't provide any rear blocking of the lane and debris tends to accumulate in this location.  As well, many roads develop quite a hump in the middle of the lane and riding on top of that can be a challenge with more irregularities.  Sometimes, the centre is appropriate if on a multi-lane highway with traffic flowing on each side...and there are other instances when it momentarily may be appropriate.

Speaking of multi-lane highways, generally we avoid the centre lanes for prolonged travel.  The curb lane should be ridden in the tire track that gives the best blocking and visibility - the left tire track on rods where we ride and drive on the right side of the road.  On multi-lane highways, the curb lane is the desired lane to ride in.  However, there are times when in the passing or extreme left lane is ridden, and then for visibility and for blocking, you should ride in the right tire track.  "Blocking" BTW means that we try to prevent lane sharing by other vehicles - it also gives us better visibility to see and be seen, as well as giving us room to move/swerve while staying in our lane and on the road if someone cuts us off.

Another thing mentioned was about approaching large vehicles coming in the opposite direction on a two-lane road.  A good practice is to swing out into the right tire track (from the normally traveled left).  This is done to make us more visible to following traffic behind the large vehicle and also to allow us to see sooner any vehicle that might be tucked-up close behind the large vehicle and about to pass.  On dirty or wet roads, this maneuver also gets us out of the stream of debris that might be thrown up by the wake from the large vehicle.  The maneuver isn't to avoid the wind blast from the wake nor fear of being sucked-in by it.

Excellent post.
Down here in the deep south the "mud strip" as I call the center of the lane actually foams up like soap in a light rain and is insanely slick. Cars last longer down here too and tend to have leaky engines dropping oil etc there.
I also liked the comments about how important balance is when riding on icy roads, I too rode though a winter in the Detroit area in my younger days. That dynamic changes a lot of how you ride.

I have developed my style to a very offensive type of driving. I realize I am usually invisible and ride like no one can see me but when I am pinned in on multi lanes and other traffic situations I position myself (in whatever portion of the lane) in such a way as I make people around me a little on edge, headlight shining in mirror, down shift so the bike is louder, dirty look, etc, whatever to make people around me look at what is making the disturbance.

Tap that brake light a few times to make it flash and indicate you are stopping/slowing down for the 4 wheelers behind you is another helpful tip.

[70CB750]

Fresh rain on cobble stones schooled me in Prague when I was young, after a while you learn to drive with your butt in situation like that.

Streets like this

[Stev-o]

the 450 thread



Now, that was impressive!

Evenin Mick! And Dog [sorry, forgot his name]

[dave500]

gday Charlie!

[Retro Rocket]

the 450 thread



Now, that was impressive!

Evenin Mick! And Dog [sorry, forgot his name]

Gday Steve....

[Retro Rocket]

...short delay while I made some popcorn...

Other posts have mentioned about riding in the center of the lane being the "best position".  Generally this is not the case.  In fact some people will never ride there as it doesn't provide any rear blocking of the lane and debris tends to accumulate in this location.  As well, many roads develop quite a hump in the middle of the lane and riding on top of that can be a challenge with more irregularities.  Sometimes, the centre is appropriate if on a multi-lane highway with traffic flowing on each side...and there are other instances when it momentarily may be appropriate.

Speaking of multi-lane highways, generally we avoid the centre lanes for prolonged travel.  The curb lane should be ridden in the tire track that gives the best blocking and visibility - the left tire track on rods where we ride and drive on the right side of the road.  On multi-lane highways, the curb lane is the desired lane to ride in.  However, there are times when in the passing or extreme left lane is ridden, and then for visibility and for blocking, you should ride in the right tire track.  "Blocking" BTW means that we try to prevent lane sharing by other vehicles - it also gives us better visibility to see and be seen, as well as giving us room to move/swerve while staying in our lane and on the road if someone cuts us off.

Another thing mentioned was about approaching large vehicles coming in the opposite direction on a two-lane road.  A good practice is to swing out into the right tire track (from the normally traveled left).  This is done to make us more visible to following traffic behind the large vehicle and also to allow us to see sooner any vehicle that might be tucked-up close behind the large vehicle and about to pass.  On dirty or wet roads, this maneuver also gets us out of the stream of debris that might be thrown up by the wake from the large vehicle.  The maneuver isn't to avoid the wind blast from the wake nor fear of being sucked-in by it.

Thats all glaringly obvious and common sense, ride to the conditions, if you live in a country area and have poor roads then the middle of the lane is virtually useless, white lines and pedestrian crossings in the rain should be avoided as well. The biggest thing missed so far is to ride in peoples mirrors, if you can see them, they can see you, 90% of the time they aren't going to turn around to see whats there so stay visible...If you were referring to me in one of your other post just remember that we ride on the other side of the road here so what i was saying was that when turning make it obvious and don't take up all the lane, my pet hate is people that slow to almost a stop to turn in to a street from the middle of the road, i'm sure they think they are driving a bloody big truck....

[mark]

...,dont ride with people who turn every outing into a race...

A couple guys were playing that around here a while back. One slows down other speeds up and passes. One slowed for a turn the other didn't know the road and sped up and passed. Almost made the turn but faceplanted into a sturdy mailbox. Dunno if he did a donor card but the family pulled the plug anyway.



If that is the highway here, those dotted lines are deep ruts from my winter studs. Strip 1 and 3 are only a couple feet wide, and #2 is a bit wider than shown. I'm not riding in the ruts or down the center line, there's gravel and crap off to the right.

That pretty much leaves me stuck riding down the center of my lane - whether I like it or it's ideal or not.

[Retro Rocket]

My biggest fear is the "courtious drivers" that leave open a gap in traffic at stop lights so oncoming traffic can cross.  If I'm in the right lane of a 3 lane highway, I want those 2 lanes to my left blocking traffic,not inviting traffic to pull out and help themselves to my lane. In my opinion any accident that happens when people do that is directly the falt of those "nice people" that figured they could design a better traffic flow then those that get paid to do it.

P.s. not to get into the argument, but anyone that has rode 15,000 miles without a close call is simply not paying attention.

Best of Luck!
Mike

15,000 miles and zero near misses in two years of riding. I guess I'm doing it all wrong so far?

Well  I reckon that's just more BS Mike, He joined here on the 9th November 2012, on the 11th of Nov, in his words, "i've bought my FIRST bike", so thats more like 19 months ago. It also gets "winterized", so that accounts for around 2-3 months {second winter} as the build was in the first winter,  and another 7 months  for that rebuild {finished 26 June 2013} If his claim was true he's done about 420 miles a week for every week since , thats 7 days a week, rain, hail or shine, and considering the weather you guys have had in the last couple of years {or less} I highly doubt that claim as well......... 

[madmtnmotors]

15,000 miles and zero near misses in two years of riding. I guess I'm doing it all wrong so far?

Anyone that has rode 15,000 miles without a close call is simply not paying attention.

Joined here on the 9th November 2012, on the 11th of Nov, in his words, "i've bought my FIRST bike", so thats more like 19 months ago. It also gets "winterized", so that accounts for around 2-3 months {second winter} as the build was in the first winter,  and another 7 months  for that rebuild {finished 26 June 2013} If his claim was true he's done about 420 miles a week for every week since , thats 7 days a week, rain, hail or shine, and considering the weather you guys have had in the last couple of years {or less} I highly doubt that claim as well......... 

Gonna have to agree with Mike and RR here. Way to do your homework by the way there RR! 

To cover 15,000 miles with ZERO near misses means you either have supernatural powers over people and conditions around you, or you spend most of your time on a closed course under controlled conditions. I can't cover 15,000 miles in my pickup truck without racking up some near misses, but I commute through a major metropolitan area daily (Orlando, FL). I've had probably half a dozen deer (or more) near my path within the last 5,000 miles on my bike, 2,500 of which were completed in just the last two weeks. Slowing down under those conditions can help mitigate the risk, but how to completely eliminate random factors such as the behavior of local wildlife solely through superior riding ability is something I must not have mastered quite yet... 

My concern is that you may eventually lull yourself into a false sense of security by what you perceive to be your superior riding skills. Nothing like a near miss to bring you back down to earth... both spiritually and sometimes physically!    (my headlight fork ear remains disfigured to this day from a close encounter with a red light runner)

Riding attitude, focus, concentration, training, and experience can all combine to help us, as riders, minimize our exposure to risk. But to believe you are good enough to eliminate the danger completely? I can only strive to be that good... 

[Stev-o]

Who's your Daddy?!    Can't stop laughing, funniest post of the year!

[vfourfreak]

A good piece of advice that I was given a long time ago, and it applies to life in general : You were given two ears and one mouth - use them in that proportion.

The day I stop learning something new (in any field) is the day I want my pine overcoat.

Kev

[MikeKato]

In a perfect world a guy could hop on a  CUSTOM, MOUNTAIN BOSS HOSS WITH A 502 BIG BLOCK **WITH NITROUS** and get filled to the brim from  a biker-bar that offers free beer to whoever owns the "awesome red bike".

150mph, shatfaced without a care in that perfect world,heading off to the next free beer joint.

http://nd.craigslist.org/mcy/4477128393.html

[Bob Wessner]

Let's keep things civil, shall we.

[Retro Rocket]

Who's your Daddy?!    Can't stop laughing, funniest post of the year!

Bahahahahaha....Impressive....

Cal, you hit the nail right on the head, "near misses" are the ones you've avoided through either luck or skill, I've had quite a few of both, thats also the main reason i'm so retentive about Tires and suspension, if you use the best suspension and tires you can buy, you know the bike is able to do what you want it to do {within the limits of the machine}, the rest is solely up to you, and like the old saying goes, "practice makes perfect", NOTHING beats time in the saddle, I don't care if Casey Stoner is your instructor, he's not the one riding the bike... 

[vfourfreak]

My last post on this thread was directed towards Fenders, apologies if it sounded random.

To the OP CBparakeet, I hope the many inputs of wise and experienced riders are of a benefit to you.

Kev