Topic: Carb cleaning

[mikeb4]

The glass beads did a super job cleaning up the outside of my carbs now that they are totally clean inside!

[mikeb4]

Couple more pics ..............

[bwaller]

That does clean em up nice.

[TwoTired]

Aren't they cad plated by the factory to retard corrosion?

I thought they had some sort of coating anyway, albeit thin.


 

[mikeb4]

Aren't they cad plated by the factory to retard corrosion?

I thought they had some sort of coating anyway, albeit thin.

 

It's possible, I thought about that as well but figured I couldn't do any worse than 30 years had already    it didn't take much at all since I had totally de-gunked them beforehand ... I just used the beads for the final crevice clean out and uniform finish ...... we'll see how they hold up.

[TwoTired]

FYI
www.eastwoodco.com
Offers a silver cad coating (Acrylic lacquer) called Silver Cad in a spray can.  There's also a TiCoat, if you want the carbs to look like titanium.

Just about any coating should keep the pot metal castings from turning black (or white with corrosion).  Don't know about fuel resistance after full cure.  Best to keep the fuel on the inside of the carbs anyway.
 

Cheers,

[Noel]

I was entertaining thoughts of bead blasting mine too. I'm concerned, though, about 1) getting the linkage full of abrasive and 2) getting the various internal orifices (on the carb, not me) clogged.

Did you unrack (ugh) the carbs before blasting? And what did you do to keep the insides free of glass?

And while I'm on the subject, I'm looking for opinions on cleaning the insides of carbs in carb dip -- can it be done without unracking, or are there hidden rubber bits on the linkage, or other reasons why they should be unracked before dipping?

[clarkjh]

I was entertaining thoughts of bead blasting mine too. I'm concerned, though, about 1) getting the linkage full of abrasive and 2) getting the various internal orifices (on the carb, not me) clogged.

Did you unrack (ugh) the carbs before blasting? And what did you do to keep the insides free of glass?

And while I'm on the subject, I'm looking for opinions on cleaning the insides of carbs in carb dip -- can it be done without unracking, or are there hidden rubber bits on the linkage, or other reasons why they should be unracked before dipping?

Just started to do mine.  Removed everthing I could from the card body, then filled the spaces with strips of cloth.  Then covered everything that won't be blasted with tape.  That should keep the 99% of the grit out, when done I plan on flushing the carbs before I clearcoat and reassemble them.

James

[mikeb4]

I was entertaining thoughts of bead blasting mine too. I'm concerned, though, about 1) getting the linkage full of abrasive and 2) getting the various internal orifices (on the carb, not me) clogged.

Did you unrack (ugh) the carbs before blasting? And what did you do to keep the insides free of glass?

And while I'm on the subject, I'm looking for opinions on cleaning the insides of carbs in carb dip -- can it be done without unracking, or are there hidden rubber bits on the linkage, or other reasons why they should be unracked before dipping?

I used duct tape to completely close off the inlet and outlet sides and capped the fule line with duct tape as well and left the long vent hoses on.  As I mentioned at first I only had to hit them with a few seconds each to clean out the crevices and give a uniform color with a mild glass bead.  The only issues I had afterwards is I had to open up the top caps to completely clean out the throttle linkage shafts where they pass through the carb bodies.  They crunched a little bit immediately afterwards but with a little WD40 blowing out from the inside all is better than new.

I think the key is making sure they are really degreased first so it minimizes the glass beads sticking to any oily or greasy surfaces.  Then after bead blasting hit them with clear air first, followed up with WD40 or silicone to lube it all back up.  It was nice with blasting I did not have to seperate them at all.

[Noel]

Thanks for the info, Mike. Think I'll get started today.

[Zeke]

I was entertaining thoughts of bead blasting mine too. I'm concerned, though, about 1) getting the linkage full of abrasive and 2) getting the various internal orifices (on the carb, not me) clogged.

Did you unrack (ugh) the carbs before blasting? And what did you do to keep the insides free of glass?

And while I'm on the subject, I'm looking for opinions on cleaning the insides of carbs in carb dip -- can it be done without unracking, or are there hidden rubber bits on the linkage, or other reasons why they should be unracked before dipping?

There is no way I would blast them assembled.  There's no way you can keep those tiny particles out.  I sealed mine well and I still had to wash them out extremely well, with a lot of compressed air.

Here's a post that I made about cleaning my carbs last year.  There are some links to the before pictures:

http://www.sohc4.us/forums/index.php?topic=173.0

Here's a few pics, one showing how I blocked every orifice and one of the after bead blasting.

At the ends, some bicycle inner tube, hose clamps, tie wraps.  Some sealing washers and bolts.  Wooden dowels tapped in.

My finish has dulled a bit, but is better than before I started as you can see in my Carb Clean thread.  But, I wish I'd known there was a "plate" finish I could have used.  I was going to paint them, but realized that most paint would get messed up from the gas.

Zeke

[Big Tom]

Well, as the story goes I got this bike for free a few years ago from a friend of mine who's had it sitting in his backyard for about 6yrs without draining the gas. He drove it around when in Highschool but it never ran right he said and wouldn't rev over 4000 RPM so he got mad and bought a new bike... probably just needed a carb clean BUT that's his own stupidity

Anyways, the pic's speak for themselves. I just thought I would post them on here so anyone else working on a similar bike can see the guts and get an understanding how these things work before tearing into them. I know this isn't the best way of cleaning a carb doing it by hand like this opposed to dunking the carbs in a tank of carb cleaner, but I was on a budget and this entire odeal cost 1 can of Suzuki carb clean and a day of my time.
























Poor mans way of adjusting float hieghts! Worked well, after I found out my carbs were not the 22mm like the Clymers mannual said but actually 14.5mm

[Big Tom]

I'm not sure if it's just doing this for me or everyone else but the forum is resizing the pictures. If you either save the pictures or right-click ontop of them, goto properties, the copy/paste the actual link for the pictures you can get a full sized pic and truely see the green nasty that has built up on those carbs... I learned a valuble lesson cleaning those bugger out... always drain the gas in the carbs before storage and use fuel stabalizer!

[SteveD CB500F]

You could just link directly to photobucket.

Like this:  http://s29.photobucket.com/albums/c267/BigTom209/

Unfortunately it wants me to logon to see your album

I have a set of fairly nasty 500 carbs (627B) which I bought off eBay and was thinking of tearing into soon.

How was the Suzuki carb cleaner. We've spent many hours on here discussing the pro's and con's of different cleaners and the general consensus seems to be that the Yamaha stuff is pretty good.  Is the Suzuki stuff ok for the plastic/rubber parts??

[TwoTired]

Very nice pictures and some nice work, too.

A few points to consider, though.

One, the spec for the PD46C Carbs on the 78 model, show 12.5 mm for the float height setting.

Two, none of your pictures show addressing the pressed in slow jets next to the main jet posts.  These jets with their .014 hole deep inside them should be carefully checked for free flow.

Also, just like the main jet has an emulsion tube behind it, so does that slow jet.  The cross drilled holes are very difficult to verify clean and clear without pulling the jet out of the casting.  They can be tapped back in after cleaning.

When cleaning the slow jet feed system, be aware that the Idle Mixture Screw sits in an oring.  Some carb cleaners attack this rubber and if it leaks, can make mixture settings erratic.

Cheers,

[Big Tom]

I really liked the Suzuki carb cleaner, didn't seem to eat away at any of the rubber parts and I talked with a bunch of mechanics where I live and they all suggested it. I'm sure it's similar to the Yamaha stuff. I had a couple small baby jard I sprayed some of the cleaner into and then was able to submerge the jets and misc pieces for awhile to clear out all the crap, worked well.



That's interesting to know about the float hieghts, I talked with quite a few people and they gave me a wide range of answers but the most common was 14.5mm and it's never leaked once on me yet, but you seem to know your SOHC like the back of your hand so next time I tear into those carbs I'll reset them to 12.5mm and see how it works.

And yeah I know about the slow jet, I never did pull them out but did clean them within an inch of their lives and I was able to check them using a ultra-bright LED flashlight and they looked very clean and I had an air compressor and could blow air/cleaner through the carb just to make sure things were flowing well. But like you say those drilled holes still might be a bit dirty and I'd like to pull out the jet but I havn't the foggiest idea how to do it properly!

This was my first attempt of ever tearing down a carb, and I did it without any info and a useless manual that didn't cover anything to do with the carbs. I wish I would've known about this forum to get some suggestions and help BUT I did learn alot tearing into them head first and the bike does run fairly smooth.

Is this the O-ring you're talking about on the idle mixture screw?

[supersport_CB400F]

You seem to have done a nice job, if the bike runs good what more can you ask for...

[TwoTired]

That's interesting to know about the float hieghts, I talked with quite a few people and they gave me a wide range of answers but the most common was 14.5mm and it's never leaked once on me yet, but you seem to know your SOHC like the back of your hand so next time I tear into those carbs I'll reset them to 12.5mm and see how it works.

Unless you are still running the stock exhaust and air filter setup. The float height may not make much difference.  Perhaps mileage, as I think it leans things up some.

And yeah I know about the slow jet, I never did pull them out but did clean them within an inch of their lives and I was able to check them using a ultra-bright LED flashlight and they looked very clean and I had an air compressor and could blow air/cleaner through the carb just to make sure things were flowing well. But like you say those drilled holes still might be a bit dirty and I'd like to pull out the jet but I havn't the foggiest idea how to do it properly!

If it is running and idling well, don't bother.   You did good with your attention to detail.   Flowing fuel has a cleaning effect.  If your Idle Mixture Screw settings change in the future, you'll just know another hole opened that was clogged before.  

Is this the O-ring you're talking about on the idle mixture screw?

The washer in your picture keeps the spring from digging into the oring that, hopefully is still in the carb body.  It doesn't fall out easily and, unless you have another one to go in there, best to leave it in place.  The orings seal to that long cylindrical shaft on the Idle Mixture Screw (IMS).  If you test assemble the IMS without the spring and washer, there should be some slight resistance, indicating the rubber is making good contact with the IMS cylinder.  The spring and washer squash the oring to help the seal, if the rubber is still resilient.
You'll need a tachometer with 50 RPM resolution to set those IMS screws properly, assuming the orings are still viable. Carb synch first, though.


I got the Carb specs through Warlock (I think) on this forum sometime back.
Cheers,

[Big Tom]

Yup, stock air box and stock pipes, I've considered putting some money into a nice set of pipes for it but I'd like to just getting it running tip-top for a year or better before I put anything into it, so far I've got just a couple hundred bucks worth of parts (big thing being new chain/sproket) into the bike and it's looking pretty good.

Right now though the bike is still having some idle issues, I posted it before it will idle fine at around 1200rpm for awhile then for no reason jump up to 1800rmp and sit there until you drive for a bit then it will calm down. I still havn't had the chance to sync the carbs yet so I'm feeling fairly safe in assuming that's the problem, the carbs were siezed pretty tight when I first got them and my dad basically used a bit of brute strength and ingorance to get them freed up.. in doing so probably messed up the settings.

I remember the rubber Oring you're talking about now, when I was finishing cleaning up the carbs I was blowing out some excess carb clean and sprayed down one of the tubes for the idle mixture screw and the Oring popped out and hit me in the head! I put it back in and checked to make sure they were all still installed as I was finishing putting it all back together so hopefully that's not a problem.

I really like this forum, alot of good info here! I'm hoping soon I can get the motorbike out of storage and move it here with me so I can tinker with it more, that's my biggest problem is I moved and the bikes 6hrs away so can't really work on it easily.

[TwoTired]

Here is the spec sheet I meant to post before:

[pwright]

Big Tom,

Good stuff there! I liked the pics. I actually JUST rebuilt my '78 CB550 carbs on Saturday, but didn't find nearly as much crud.

I went back and forth about whether to pull the slow jets. Finally, I tried with the pliers method. I couldn't get them to budge, and as some others have mentioned, they might have been hard to get back in. However, when I took out my mains, the emulsion tubes were totally clean, as was the jet orifice, so I assumed that if those were so clean that the rest should be OK. I did make sure to spray lots of carb cleaner through them, and could see it coming out the hole in the carb chamber, so knew they weren't blocked. Also did the copper wire trick. The big question now is, did I get the emulsion tubes...?? I guess we'll see when I try to fire it up in a couple days.... if I have problems, I'll yank 'em back off and try harder to get those slows out...

Later,
-Pat-

[SteveD CB500F]

I've considered putting some money into a nice set of pipes for it

Harry and I scoured Europe for these pipes.  Do you have a secret source.

Even David Silver only has one of the four.

[Big Tom]

TwoTired: Thanks alot for the spec sheet! Now I can understand where people got the 14.5mm from considering the people I talked with all had later model '77 and '78 carbs. I'll definately be pulling the carbs off to do another tear down and inspection since the bikes been sitting for awhile again so I'll reset the hieghts and take some more pictures, I find it's really handy having a nice picture tutorial on how to do something so hopefully in the future if someone has Q's about the '78 carbs these pic's will help.

Pat: The really sad part is with the crud... those pictures are after our first attempt at cleaning. Story goes when I first got the bike it was Christmas (I live in Canada, thus Christmas is -40C give or take) and we hauled it to my dads shop out of town and tore into the carbs because they were so seized up we couldn't even open up the throats. Problem was we didn't have any good quality carb clean just some cheap crap that hardly worked worth a damn... so we monkey'ed around with everything, tried to clean as much of the green crap off as possible and got the throats freed.. and actually got the bike running with the carbs looking like they do in the pictures before the cleaning. SO basically what I'm saying is those carbs were worse then in the pictures AND by some act of God the bike was able to run with them looking like that... I still don't know how... but it did.

I'm thinking I'm going to have to attempt to pull out my slow jets, because considering my bike is having some problems at idle, and how bad the rest of those carbs were my tubes are probably still plugged up a bit. The way I got them flowing decent was I would spray carb clean into the tubes, let it sit for awhile, then with the air compressor blow into it and I had some paper towel at the other end and at first when the cleaner blew through it came out green (go figure eh?) so I kept doing it til I was able to blow through it and the cleaner came out looking like it went in. Sooooooo... probably needs to be more thuroughly gone over.

Anyone have any tips to pulling them out properly as well as putting them back in?



SteveD: A secret source... not really... but there is a bike wrecker within a couple blocks of my work that has about a dozen or more 550/750s and last time i checked a few still had pipes on them that appeared in nice shape. My bike I'm lucky, the left sides look very well and the rights look decent but I think have a couple very small rust holes, I'm not worried at the moment because like I said I want to get this bike running well for a period of time before thinking about anything cosmetic. Hell at this moment I don't even ride bikes! I got my license and was cruising around on my dirt bike when I came to a stop and my pant leg hooked the kick start... needless to say bike fell over, I dislocated my shoulder, havn't really riden since. This 550 is more of a project for me to tinker on and have fun getting it purring... maybe after that point I'll duct tape my pant legs and attempt a second round 

[csendker]

but there is a bike wrecker within a couple blocks of my work that has about a dozen or more 550/750s and last time i checked a few still had pipes on them that appeared in nice shape.

If they're in decent shape, you may want to go snag them before they go to the crusher or return to Mother Nature.  If you can't use them, I bet someone here can.

[unkle fester]

saw a post on another board somewhere about boiling carbs in lemon juice.......said WTF, I'm bored....why not.....seemt that the acidic content of the lemon juice does the cleaning along with the agitation of the boiling water.... works better than I expected......whaddya think?