Topic: Swing Arm Bushing replacement

[seaweb11]

This particular question is not regarding my 750.   This problem has come up on the CL350, but I would assume the same answer will apply to any bike/

Had the fame, swing arm etc. all cooked / sand blasted, and powder coated.
Now I need replacement bushings on the swing arm where the shocks mount, as well as a couple of other engine mounts/

I dropped off the new powdered engine mount pieces at a machine shop and also left them a couple of old extra pieces to try and remove the bushings and put in the newer engine mounts.

There comment was that it would be a 50/50 chance they will come out and go back in in one piece.
Crap!

My Honda dealer is on Holidays, is there somewhere one cam buy new replacements for these applications?

[HondaMan]

The bushings are standard, although metric, parts. Try an industrial supply place. Around here, that would be McMaster-Carr or Grainger's, but I'm not sure where you live.

The stock bushings often were micro-cracked from vibration, especially if those 350 mounts were loose, which made them fall apart upon removal.

[seaweb11]

I am still on the hunt for an online supply for these shock bushings.

 Anyone?

[clarkjh]

I need to replace the swing arm bushings and collar on my 74 CB550K, Honda parts will be about $160 CAD, and Z1 has a bearing kit for $73 USD.  Just woundering witch one is the better for replacement.  I don't mind greasing if the bushings are better for the swing arm.  I just do not want to have to replace these parts again untill I retire 35 years from now

James

[dusterdude]

the bearings should work as well as long as they are timken type bearings(tapered roller bearings).

[upperlake04]

James - seem to remember a  post  about bushings being  mechanically superior to bearings  because of the increased surface loading area. That would also decrease the rate of wear - important if you need 35 years out of it      David

[HondaMan]

Well, here's what's happening to us all: our pivot shafts are wearing down and the vendors who are making the bronze bushings are not supplying undersized units to compensate. So, if you replace your worn bearings with new ones, the slop doesn't go away... 

Here's what I'm doing with mine, right now.

Honda made them with .0008" to .0016" clearance. Typically, the bushings wear out and get replaced back to the original I.D. size, but the shaft inside of it has worn down by .002" to .006" or more. You still end up with .060" (that's 1/16") or more slop at the rear wheel.

So, I'm making undersized bushings for mine. I'm thinking about making a bunch of these, because there are a bunch of CB Hondas here. I had purchased some new bushings from PartsNMore.net, only to find they actually made the I.D. BIGGER than Honda's MAX LIMIT WEAR spec!     These are useless replacement parts.

If any of you want some, drop me a message. I will probably make them in .002", .004" and .006" undersizes. The shaft itself is .006" to .008" undersize in between the bearing surfaces (so it can be assembled!), so they can't go any smaller than that. If yours are worn more than that, you'll have to replace the shaft, too.

The $$$ will depend on how many sets I have to make, so let me know over the next few weeks and I'll lay a plan.

[Noel]

Any experience with the bushings sold by M3 racing?

[Tim.]

I have a set of the Partsnmore bushings for my 550F, and have a NOS spindle as well - do you think I'll have the same trouble?

[MRieck]

Any experience with the bushings sold by M3 racing?

I'm sure those are made by Kibblewhite. I've used the Kibblewhite 750 bushings. They are tight to begin with.

[Jonesy]

I also had bought a set of bushings from partsnmore and when I fit them over the new pivot I thought they felt sloppy as well. But, someone mentioned that after they are pressed into the swingarm, the ID decreases a bit. Is this the case with these?

[Tim.]

I also had bought a set of bushings from partsnmore and when I fit them over the new pivot I thought they felt sloppy as well. But, someone mentioned that after they are pressed into the swingarm, the ID decreases a bit. Is this the case with these?

I can't imagine that would be the case.  Are these pressed in with a machine?  I thought these were to be installed by hand.  Either way, I can't see the diameter being changed by installing - if something were to change, I'd be concerned.

[Boomologist]

Just curious, were all the bushings the same for the CB series, 500,550,750?
I need a pair but will should pull the swing arm to measure them because I can't remember if I used a CB500 or 550 rear frame when I built the bike..

[scondon]

     Don't know about the earlier K models, but on the 750F swingarms I've nearly destroyed the pivot shaft getting the damn things out. Stock bushings are made of some type of plastic? composite material and there's no way to get the shaft out without much banging and cursing. Since everything needs replacing at this point I've been using the needle bearing kits and am very happy with them. Any reason, besides price, to choose bronze bushings over needle bearings?

[HondaMan]

Looks like I need to add to this post, especially about "how to get the old ones out". 
Done right, it's easy. Done wrong, will take you days.
I'll make some pix and instructions.

NO-they do not shrink when installed. If the bearings are properly sized, you put them in the freezer for 10 minutes, then oil the holes and tap them in with a wood block and small hammer. The I.D. will not change more than .00005" in the process.

You can test-fit those M3 or PartsNMore sleeves: if they feel sloppy on the shaft, that slop will be increased by a factor of 24 when installed on the bike. For example, if the clearance is .002", the axle will move .048", nearly 1/16" inch (which is .060"). They should not be tight going on, either, or they will seize in short order and ruin themselves soon.

Most of us have worn shafts, so undersized bushings will be required for good performance. I just bid on a used lathe: if I win the bid, I'm going into the custom swingarm bushing business!

[scondon]

Looks like I need to add to this post, especially about "how to get the old ones out". 
Done right, it's easy. Done wrong, will take you days.
I'll make some pix and instructions.

   That would be great as I am all set and prepared for another round of bangin' and cursin' on the current project

[bistromath]

If you look up "swingarm bushings" in the archives you'll see I was going to do the same thing several months ago. I've even got the bronze rod stock to do it. I work in a machine shop. But I couldn't get anyone to give me a dimensioned drawing (or even a description with ID, OD, total length, and flange OD/length) and it's pointless for me to buy a set just to check the dimensions so I can just duplicate them.

So I'll cut up a bunch with the stock I've already bought and the lathe I already use, if someone will only send me the dimensions.

Also, my other question remained unresolved: I ended up buying oil-impregnated self-lubricating bronze, rather than the harder "bearing" bronze. The bronze bushings I've seen sold online appear to be the oil-impregnated type. My thinking is that the harder "bearing" bronze would probably last longer if properly lubed, but most SOHCers I know (including me) tend to neglect regular swingarm lubrication, and the softer oil-impregnated bronze would not only prolong the life of the abused bushing but also would reduce wear on the pivot pin, which sucks more to replace. Any strong opinions one way or the other?

[mlcasey]

does anybody know the best way to get the bushing out of the swingarm?

[Fish]

Hondaman,

Up until moments ago, I had never given a second thought to my swingarm bushings.  I would definitely be one of your customers though.

- Chad

[smashme33]

 I wonder what size bushings for my CB650? Would you consider making some if there was even a small demand?

[HondaMan]

Okay, here we go...

Bushing material should be 943 or 941. This is bearing-grade, oil-impregnated bronze. (The ones I have from PartsNMore don't even qualify for this.) I just finished my set of matched-size bushings, after polishing the shaft to an even, flat dimension. The picture with the calipers on the shaft show that number.

The bearings are set to .0008" clearance, Honda's recommended minumum. That's the picture with the calipers inside the bearing.

The old bearings are best removed with a pair of hacksaw cuts. Install the hacksaw (12" is better than my 10" shown in the third picture) through the swingarm and cut through the bearings in 2 places, about 40 degrees apart or so. Then, break out the little piece and the big piece will tap right out. Don't sweat the little bit of cutting marks you'll get in the steel tube of the swingarm, but don't cut through the swingarm, either..   

Installation: put the bushings and shaft in the freezer for at least an hour. Put the swingarm in the oven at about 200 or so for that hour. Then, grease the outside of the (cold) bushings and tap them into the (warm) swingarm with a wood block and small hammer. They will go in easily, provided you cleaned the swingarm out well before all this started.... Grease the shaft and slide it in, then the felt washers, the plastic end caps and the cover (cup) washer. The inside of this cover washer must be flush against the swingarm when all is assembled correctly. Put it in the bike, torque it down (80 ft-lbs or so) and grease it a lot, until you're sure it is full, while moving the swingarm up & down to help pump the grease through the bushings.

If I win the lathe (on bid), I'll be offering custom-fit bushings to your shaft (send the shaft) or undersized bushings (or both). If I can collect an extra shaft or 2, I'll start a "core exchange" program, like when you go buy a rebuilt engine. Send in your shaft and get a whole matched set, that sort of thing. Then I can match the shaft up for the next guy.

[HondaMan]

Well, I had to make it 2 posts...the last shot is the matched set.

[HondaMan]

I wonder what size bushings for my CB650? Would you consider making some if there was even a small demand?

We can make any size, if we can figure the dimensions or get an old set (or swingarm) for that purpose.

[scondon]

   I guess the older K's must use a different type of bearing than the F models. The pivot shaft in the F swingarms I've done do not slide out and must be pounded out, pretty much destroying the old bearings and pivot shaft in the process. I'm sure this has to do with age and not getting lubed.....EVER.....just wonder if anyone else has encountered this when changing swingarm bearings/bushings.

[puppytrax]

Interesting project. You didn't specifically mention turning down the old shaft to make it concentric (since it definately won't wear down uniformly round). How much you take off will depend on the amount of wear, I suppose, which would tend to make every bushing/shaft a "custom fit"...