Topic: Oil Light then -clackclackclack- then Dead! (help please)

[Nik-bot]

Hello All.  This is my first post to the tech forums.  So far, I’ve gotten by reading old threads but now, after pushing my bike 1.5 miles home, I have to ask for help.

The bike is a ’78 CB550K, recently acquired (325miles /3 months ago)

Was riding home in a traffic jam (crawling) and the oil light came on and stayed on. I’d come to not trust the oil pressure light (see below) so I continued. After a few minutes, a ‘clackclackclack’ sound started and I pulled over.  The engine died on its own before I was off the road.  Oil level is fine, but smoke of burning oil poured out when I removed the cap to check. It seemed that the kickstart would not rotate the engine.

While pushing it home, I let some good Samaritans talk me into push start.  It started, but the clackclackclack noise convinced me to shut it down after 10 seconds and continue pushing towards home.

Some of the problems I’ve faced over the few months of ownership may or may not be relevant:
•   Oil light always comes on at idle, only after the engine is nice and hot – usually about 8 miles into a ride. It flickers or stays on and I blip the throttle to ensure it turns off at higher RPM. I came to understand here that this is not serious and I’d gotten used to it.
•   Recently during a ride in the foothills my oil light came on and stayed on. I pulled over and had the bike towed home. Changed the Oil Pressure Switch and all was back to normal. This was about 50 miles ago.
•   I have the wrong oil weight. I’d filled it with 10W-40 (per marking on filler cap) when I got the bike but found later should take 20W-50. I was supposed to make the switch this weekend…

SO… What have I done to my bike and what can I do to fix it?  I’m really worried here.

Dominique

PS: Perhaps this is obvious, but I have little experience with mechanics, etc. – all I know about motorcycle repair is what I’ve learned from Clymer’s and the internet in the last few months. You might need to “talk dumb” to me.

[calj737]

Regardless of the weight of the oil, the volume is most important, and the pressure under which it flows.

If you check the volume now, how does it read? If your oil light is on, or coming on, even after replacement, don't dismiss this. It's a warning sign that something is not right. I'd bet your oil pump is clogged or clogging... But that doesn't explain the clack-clack-clack. That is not a happy sound. 

If it were me, I'd put a clean pan under the oil drain plug (beneath the engine) and drain the oil. Then, I'd run a strong magnet through the oil to see if I picked up any metal pieces or shavings. If you do, pull the oil pan from the engine. And post a picture of what's inside.

[billingstitan]

Based on hard-won experience - NEVER ignore an oil light. It's never nothing to worry about unless you know EXACTLY why it's illuminating. Even then, get it fixed and operating correctly as soon as possible. Oil is the lifeblood of an engine - one mistake and it's curtains  .

Calj737's advice is spot on - drain your oil and drop your oil pan. My guess is you're going to see some glitter in your oil pan - I hope not - but from the initial description is sounds like your bike got starved of oil and the motor seized. That is, the internals were not sufficiently lubricated and locked up.

The 10w-40 isn't going to cause a catastrophic failure like that - it's not the optimum choice, but it's not THAT far off ... issues from a difference in oil viscosity between 10w-40 and 20w-50 wouldn't show up for thousands of miles, rather than 300.

From the description, it sounds like you've suffered some serious damage to the motor. I'm sorry about that 

You can often find these newer 550k engines for under $500 on ebay - just make sure it's a solid seller with a good track record. They are not difficult to swap with some basic tools - a day or two tops. Just be gentle and avoid overtightening bolts. Unfortunately, depending on the damage, it may be your least expensive alternative.

But pull your oil pan and take a look - snap some pictures and post them up here. There are a lot of fellas on here that know a hella lot more than I do about these 'ol heartbreakers.

[Parkwood60]

Sounds like you either spun a rod bearing, or seriously starved the top end for oil and seized the cam. I mostly have experience with the 750s, but its all the same, in theory. If your light was coming on at idle that typically means either the pump is too weak, or the clearances are too worn to maintain the proper pressure at low RPM. At higher RPM the pump delivers more volume no matter what, so it makes up for the less efficient pumping of a worn pump, or the leaking pressure of worn bearings.

Either way, the motor is likely toast. It can be fixed, but seeing as you are in California, you can most likely find a perfectly good motor for the same price.

[trueblue]

By the sounds of things she be #$%*ed.  You have obviously lost oil pressure and have had an issue for some time.  As has been said before NEVER ignore an oil light.  It is your first warning, your second warning is the clack clack noise of the fuctus engine.  If you have heard the clack clack, something is damaged and the engine needs to be pulled down to repair.  The oil viscosity isn't the problem, more the lack of oil in the correct place.

[strynboen]

you have a dead engine...is the bike worth the rebuild???or is it scrap or can some parts be used vith a doner bike as new start..or drop the honda sohc dream..you have some to think abaut..now you have learned not to inorrore the oil light...the hard vay

[thirsty 1]

Sorry to hear of your troubles Nik-bot. Remove you oil filter and take a look at it. All of the oil flows through it and catches all the bad stuff. It is a filter after all lol. It doesn't sound good from your description and you'll find everything you need to see in your filter.

[calj737]

Sorry to hear of your troubles Nik-bot. Remove you oil filter and take a look at it. All of the oil flows through it and catches all the bad stuff. It is a filter after all lol. It doesn't sound good from your description and you'll find everything you need to see in your filter.

Not necessarily. Large particles will be too heavy/large to be sucked into the filter past the oil screen pick-up in the pan. Yes, you might find metallic flakes there, but that's not conclusive. Better to drain the pan, fully expecting to drop the pan.

Pulling the filter is fine, but thinking that it is a determining factor is a "short cut". The pan is coming off, and probably the rocker cover too ultimately. Clack-clack-clack is 90% a dead engine. Brace for it. If by some miracle, you remove the pan, and don't see large bits of bearings or piston chunks, then you might get away with a rocker cover removal and some cam/top end repairs.

[thirsty 1]

Sorry to hear of your troubles Nik-bot. Remove you oil filter and take a look at it. All of the oil flows through it and catches all the bad stuff. It is a filter after all lol. It doesn't sound good from your description and you'll find everything you need to see in your filter.

Not necessarily. Large particles will be too heavy/large to be sucked into the filter past the oil screen pick-up in the pan. Yes, you might find metallic flakes there, but that's not conclusive. Better to drain the pan, fully expecting to drop the pan.

Pulling the filter is fine, but thinking that it is a determining factor is a "short cut". The pan is coming off, and probably the rocker cover too ultimately. Clack-clack-clack is 90% a dead engine. Brace for it. If by some miracle, you remove the pan, and don't see large bits of bearings or piston chunks, then you might get away with a rocker cover removal and some cam/top end repairs.

To each his own but its a lot easier to remove the filter then the pan. If theres metal in the filter the engine needs to come apart and be repaired.  I'd start at the filter and then the pan. He's been riding around with the oil light on so the damage has been done.

[Nik-bot]

THANK YOU, everyone, for the helpful replies.  Perhaps even more, thanks for not ripping me apart for being so reckless and stupid.

I drained the oil and removed the pan and filter.  After running a magnet through the oil and along the pan bottom, I do see a small amount of metal filings. I actually allowed myself some hope when I saw how clean it looked, but I don't really know what to expect, so please take a look at the two pics and tell me if this is what you expected to see.

You all are awesome.

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

When's the funeral?

[trueblue]

Remember there is a large percentage of non-ferrous metal in your engine, i.e. it won't stick to a magnet.  Going from those pictures it doesn't look good.  I'm not 100% certain, but I think you can see a couple of rods by looking up from the pan (been a while since I looked), you may be able to poke a screwdriver up in there and see if there is any movement.  If there is any noticable movement, you have an issue.  The other thing to do is lift the cam cover off and see if anything is chewed up in there. 

[calj737]

The picture with the oil pan appears to show a large amount of metallic  "bits" around the housing, and perhaps some large chunks in the bit of oil still in the bottom? As TrueBlue said, not all metals in your engine are magnetic. From what I think I see, next step is to pull of the rocker cover.

Be sure to remove all 8 tappet covers, then, release all the tension on the valve adjusters (when you look inside, there's a 10mm nut on top of a flat blade screw, release the nut which releases tension on the he valve spring). Doing this prevents possible damage to the valves when the cover comes off.

Work your way around removing the all the screws, and lift it off. Snap some well-lighted pictures of it.

Also, if you have any means of getting some pictures of the inside of your engine looking up form the oil pan, those would be very helpful too.

[lrutt]

you get a ferrous cam running in non-ferrous head material. its the AL that will end up in the pan mostly, not the cam material. Somewhat the same on the crank end. Stop and go is tough on these motors anyhow, and with thinner oil like that so so.

Not as much fuz as I would have expected to see but you won't know till you pop the valve cover and fully pull the pan.

As stated above, never ignore your lights. Kind of like the boy who cried wolf. you might get faked a couple times but it only takes once. An oil pressure gauge is cheap insurance and easy to install. I've had them on both my SOHC's.

[thirsty 1]

Hmmmm that looks no bueno    Calj737 is on point. If you have vise and the old filter you can cut the pleats out of the filter and squeeze the oil out of it. Take some pics of the filter and post them. It'll be all glittery. Unfortunately something has rubbed metal to metal and you have issues. If your not comfortable taking a engine apart you might want to find a local mechanic.

[Nik-bot]

OK, so I took some pics from the bottom. Those are attached here. Do they tell us something?

I removed the breather cover, tach cable, and every top bolt i could find but the cam cover doesn't seem to want to budge.  I gave it a few half-hearted whacks with a rubber mallet but no luck. Is there a trick to removing it?
 

[goldarrow]

Whack and jiggle and wiggle and pull up.

[scottly]

I don't see that much metal stuck to the magnet, and a fair amount of that is probably from the trans from normal wear.

[calj737]

To remove the valve cover, you must remove the valve inspection caps (those 8 big things) and release the tension on the nuts beneath them as I described earlier. Failure to do so will likely bend a valve.

Under the breather cover, there should be some more bolts, and the end caps have to come off. Are you using a manual by chance to confirm you're getting every screw?

If you have removed every screw as you think, then some gentle prying around the edges with a thin plastic scrape may help to break the seal between the head and the cover. Probably you're missing a few screws from coming off. Don't force the thing off, you can cause some more damage carelessly.

[calj737]

I don't see that much metal stuck to the magnet, and a fair amount of that is probably from the trans from normal wear.

Ditto. I'd like to see the rod caps? Any chance you can grab some pics in between those? And especially of your top end as you remove the cover

[lrutt]

I'd like to see what was in the BOTTOM of the oil pan as well.

[70CB750]

Subscribed.

[calj737]

Subscribed.

Everyone rubbernecks at the roadside crash victims... Just human nature

[70CB750]

Subscribed.

Everyone rubbernecks at the roadside crash victims... Just human nature

LOL!  I have nothing to contribute, never touched 550 in my life, but I am always curious.

[calj737]

There's little difference in the fundamentals of the 750/550. Both are air-cooled and oil hungry. Whatever happened, appears to be oil starvation related. Either a pump is going bad, clogged return holes to the top end, or a combination of these. Bottom end appears to be mostly in tact, but early pictures showed some chinky looking things that need to be inspected. I suspect he's got a top end issue. The clack-clack-clak to me sounds like piston/valve problems. Dropped a valve? Piston damaged from too lean or lack of oil? Guessing of course until we see more pictures. Maybe it's just a cam chain has broken but, that would indicate cam bearings are shot.

We shall see...