Topic: Oil Light then -clackclackclack- then Dead! (help please)

[calj737]

For the broken bolt, can you grab any of it above the deck surface? If so, it should turn out with vise grips. Generally, the upper portion of the threads just below the head are the only part stuck.

Grab hold of the springs, and be sure they're all snug and tight. Push down on the retainers. They should all be too stiff for you to move by hand. This is purely cursory.

[DavePhipps]

After watching your video I thought I should mention that you may want to have your sparkplugs out while doing that.

[Nik-bot]

It seem like we've reached a dead end.  hiss!  sizzle.. pfffffft...

I went back through the thread to see if I'd exhausted all options.

• valve springs and retainers:  all are stiff, in place, and uniform
• ignition timing plate: secure
• exhaust leak near head stud: could not see anything amiss
• cam tensioner not visible:  i poked a screwdriver up there where i expect the tensioner to be and i can feel a bar there. how can i check to see if the tensioner is present/intact?

Did I miss anything?  Is my only option now to button her back up and try to find a shop that will take her?

You all have been great - thanks for the remote assistance!  I"ve gained confidence just by exploring this, which is cool. 

PS: I have a "spare engine" that came with the bike, disassembled. I guess it wouldn't be wise for a noob like me to attempt a swap, not even knowing what the problem is with the current engine....

This bike is not that pretty and has stressed me with problems during our short relationship but I don't want to give up so easily - I WANT TO GET BACK ON THE ROAD!

[trueblue]

Check your rod bearings if you can.  You should be able to poke a screwdriver in there and see if there is any movement on the crank.  The only movement that should be there is rotational.  There should be no axial movement, noticable. 

[CB750F2]

Nik, I have just had a look at the photo of the valve gear cover - the one showing all the rockers. Is the adjusting screw for No,3 intake rocker missing? It is hard to tell from the photo and becomes very blurry when I zoom in. There also appears to be a shiny mark on that rocker arm that is not evident on the other rockers. Pat

[calj737]

It seem like we've reached a dead end.  hiss!  sizzle.. pfffffft...

I went back through the thread to see if I'd exhausted all options.

• valve springs and retainers:  all are stiff, in place, and uniform
• ignition timing plate: secure
• exhaust leak near head stud: could not see anything amiss
• cam tensioner not visible:  i poked a screwdriver up there where i expect the tensioner to be and i can feel a bar there. how can i check to see if the tensioner is present/intact?

Did I miss anything?  Is my only option now to button her back up and try to find a shop that will take her?

You all have been great - thanks for the remote assistance!  I"ve gained confidence just by exploring this, which is cool. 

PS: I have a "spare engine" that came with the bike, disassembled. I guess it wouldn't be wise for a noob like me to attempt a swap, not even knowing what the problem is with the current engine....

This bike is not that pretty and has stressed me with problems during our short relationship but I don't want to give up so easily - I WANT TO GET BACK ON THE ROAD!

Nik- no dead ends, just eliminating the usual suspects and likely origins of a noise you describe. Since none of us are there, we can only go through the process of troubleshooting until the beast shows herself.

I would hope that a manual inspection of the springs would have ruled out the missing adjuster nut mentioned by CB-F2?

Other probable sources for the clack-clack would be drive train. Have you checked your front sprocket under the left side cover? Is the sprocket (front and rear) in tact, the chain itself good, and no holes or interference on the engine case (remove the cover and look)?

If none of this yields a discovery, time to reinstall the rocker cover, adjust the valves, but leave the inspection covers off. Remove the plugs, and begin slowly kicking the motor over. Listen for the clack. Does it all seem right to you?

Did you notice anything odd with the transmission while riding? Hard shifting, popping out of gear, won't return to Neutral? Yin said oil level is "fine", please be 100% on the level of oil. Verify the level on the dipstick (once you refill it).

And as Trueblue suggested, inspect the rod bearings and caps from underneath. Post as many pictures as you wish, they all help us eliminate other problems.

Given that it's the weekend, some replies may be longer than weekdays as many are off riding 

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

In your one picture I'm seeing what appears to be 2 fresh 'scratches' in the metal where the cam chain would go through. Is there a chance your cam chain jumped some teeth, has the valve timing now off and possible a valve hitting a piston?

[Nik-bot]

Given that it's the weekend, some replies may be longer than weekdays as many are off riding 

 Oops- I forgot for a moment that I'm not the center of everyone's universe!
Tell you what - I'm giving you all Sunday off! 
I'll run through the latest suggestions and report back Monday night.

[scottly]

I just noticed the oil wells under the cam lobes were dry on one side of the cam, and wet on the other?

[Tews19]

Bottom pic looks to be pretty dry.

[calj737]

Nik - it would also be helpful to get a clear picture of your valve cover with rockers.

[Mcwilliams570]

In the second picture looks like the cam lobe is hitting the wall at the rounded part might be just the picture.

[Nik-bot]

I just noticed the oil wells under the cam lobes were dry on one side of the cam, and wet on the other?

It does appear that way in the photos, but one pic is taken from behind and one from in front, and the bike is tilted forward. I checked and the wells have the same amount of oil in all four.  Thank you.

[Nik-bot]

To all my crack team of motorcycle physicians - Life got in the way and I was unable to work on this last 1.5 days. I'll check all of your suggestions tonight.

One thing:  There have been a few suggestions to check the rod caps and rod bearings. I've squirmed around on my back looking up there with mirror and flashlight but I can't see how I could access the rod caps with only the oil pan removed. I feel really dumb. Is it really possible to access all four (or any of them) from below? If you tell me that it is, I'll keep trying...

[calj737]

It may take an extra set of hands. Have someone gently and easily bump the kick starter, back wheel raised and bike secured, to help rotate the crank. This will allow you to inspect each rod as it bottoms out.

[Nik-bot]

Today's update:

1) Check front sprocket: Chain and sprocket intact and no signs of wear against casing or cover
2) Better pics of inside of valve cover: attached to this and following post
3) Fresh scratches on metal where cam chain enters engine:  I could not see this. Will refer to photos and check again
4) Connecting Rod Ends/Bearings:  I have to admit a Fail here. While turning the engine, I could only check rod #3 (it was tight with no play). I'm sorry but I really could not see/access the rods for the other pistons.  Should I disassemble the engine further to check for damage there?

2 pics now more to follow...

[Nik-bot]

the rest of the rockers...

[Nik-bot]

and the plugs, in case they tell a tale...

[trueblue]

The rockers show a little galling type of wear, not a death sentence, but not the best either.  It is a normal type of wear given the flat tappet design.  A little zinc in your oil should prevent further wear.  What does peak my interest is the black mark in the cam tunnel, in the picture below.  I don't think it is anything to worry about, but it is worth further investigation.
 
In regard to the rod bearings, I thought you could get access to 2 and 3 OCICBW.  I'm not surprised you can't get to 1 and 4. 

The other possibility I have just thought of is you could have had a cylinder stop firing and the clacking noise you can hear is the clutch rattling.  When that happens it sounds similar to a big end bearing, but the noise should stop when you pull the clutch and engage a gear.

[calj737]

Nik - honestly, I'm fresh out of ideas. Everything you've checked and photo'ed doesn't appear to be the culprit. Trueblue may be right, but it still seems a little extreme for that amount of noise to have come from the clutch. Possible.

At this point, if it were mine, I'd re-assemble and check the compression in all 4 cylinders. Since your oil pan didn't really have any substantial shards in it, I'm guessing the rods are fine. The only other places that I'd think could be causing that kind of noise (and hard to quantify the noise from your title) is maybe something in the transmission??? But test the compression after replacing the oil. Post up your readings.

If it seems decent (all 4 within 10% of each other) and the all 4 are above 100psi, fire the engine and take a video.

I'm sorry there wasn't a definitive conclusion, but I'm also very glad for you that no catastrophic damage has been discovered.

Trueblue - I remembered where I saw the statement "...then dead". It's his title to this thread ;-) thought I had lost my mind for a while there.

[trueblue]

The other thing I have come across to cause a knock is if the piston has grabbed in the bore and dragged. It's not very common in petrol engines for it to cause a knock, more so a diesel complaint, most of which have bore squirters which run out of oil first in a starvation situation. It sounds like a big end knock when it happens but not quite as heavy. A compression test will show it up straight away, but as I said not very common with petrol engines.  I agree with Cal, put it back together and do a compression test and go from there.

[trueblue]

BTW Nik, nice busted knuckle in the spark plug photo.

[calj737]

The only thing the plug shot shows (outside a scraped knuckle) is a single more lean than others plug. Can't tell from that angle, but one of the interior plugs looks to be much hotter. None of them appear to be fouled, which I'd suggest rules out the "no fire cylinder" theory.

Certainly no specific damage that confirms anything that I can see. Have to see what a compression test brings.

[trueblue]

Long distance diagnostics are the hardest kind. My sister still rings me up with "My car is making a funny noise, what's wrong with it?"  She is over 200km away and that is all the info I get. At least here we get some pictures with the description.

[calj737]

I always tell them to put the car on the phone so I can have it explain the symptoms to me.  I've been contemplating the same answer here, but more politely with a video to hear the noise.

I'll say this for Nik, he's been a real trooper for ripping down his bike without complaint and doing all that was asked of him. Makes it easy to try to help someone that's so able to assist long distance. Wish I lived a wee bit closer.... Or knew someone that did.