Topic: Caliper bleeder fix

[bryanj]

OK now we all had the brake bleeder break off sometime and getting it out is a real pain.
Previously on the board there was mention of a "Bleeder Repair Kit" and thanks to another member I traced some and ordered a few, Got 3 for less than £10 including shipping and tax!

They are American made by the CTA Manufacturing Corp Carlstadt NJ 07072 www.ctatools.com and come in 2 sizes:- 1230 for 1/4, 5/16, 7mm & 8mm plus 1235 for 3/8, 7/16 & 10mm THESE SIZES ARE THE THREAD SIZE NOT THE SPANNER SIZE!!

So i took an old caliper that someone had already had a go at and even cut some alloy off (see picture 1) and drilled out to 8.5mm as i didn't have an 11/16 that the instructions specify(personally think the 8.5 is better for alloy as its slightly smaller)
Using a VERY cheap and crappy tap of 1/8 npt (only one i had in that size) CAREFULLY tapped out the hole (see picture 2 and look carefully at the bottom of the hole to see the seat damage caused by previous person!)
Screwed in brass adaptor and fitted supplied nipple (picture3)

Now at this time i have NOT put one under pressure so i cannot guarantee that they work 100% but it appears to be OK and with a decent make of tap I would be even more confident!

I have kept the pic size down for posting if anybody wants more info or pics please email me direct and i will be doing another caliper that has the sheared nipple still in there when i get both time and a decent tap!

[puppytrax]

So i took an old caliper...and drilled out to 8.5mm as i didn't have an 11/16 that the instructions specify

I can see why you're concerned...11/16" = .6875"; 8.5mm = .3346"...   

Somewhat of a difference...   

[bryanj]

UPDATE:- New glasses giving duff info! Should have read 11/32!!

Also went into the commercial workshop and connected the air greaser to the inlet port last night and pumped out the VERY old and rusty piston with no leak or problem from the adaptor so i think its AOK.

I will do another where the the bleeder is actually snapped off and report that as well

[puppytrax]

Bryan - I think I understand what this is...a bushing to seat the new bleeder screw in...

But how did you get the old broken bleeder screw out??? 

I have a nice looking caliper with a snapped off bleeder screw in it...it has resisted all the posted "fixes"...including the off-site tips...

I suppose if I get a nice new 8.5mm drill bit I could drill the thing out...but I'd have to go through the bottom of the screw and that puts me in seat territory...

...Howdjadoit???...   

[bryanj]

The brass insert has the new seat for the bleeder machined in it and the insructions say to drill at 3/16 then the 11/32 then tap. With the hardness of the bleeders i think a bench drill and care is in order rather than a hand drill. Its not clear but if you look closely at the hole in the one in the pictures you will see a very odd shaped hole where the drill obviously wandered. Whilst not looking "original" this appears to be a good engineering repair and i am happy to fit it.

[puppytrax]

So with this "kit" you completely drill out the broken bleeder; then open up the hole for 1/8" NPT; then screw the brass bushing in and then the new [supplied] bleeder...

That is pretty neat...   

Which size did you use??? The 1230 or the 1235???

My CB550 front caliper is the one I need to repair...I guess it would have to be the 1230...   

Thanks for the writeup! I'm off to get some Carbide drills! 

[bryanj]

Yup the 1230 should do all the Hondas, i think, good luck with the drilling!

[puppytrax]

Bryan - How did you order your kits??? The CTA site redirects you to http://www.autopart.com , but there's no listing for CTA Mfg, and there is no Search option...I contacted CTA; they redirected me to AutoPart...I sent an email to AutoPart; no response...   

[bryanj]

Not sure mate, I just passed on the details on the packet, if you cant find anybody over there, although there ought to be someone as its a US firm, I will happily ship one frion UK to you, probably cost about $5 on top of the $5 it cost me. Wont be home till Monday 2nd, working on an internet "booth" at present. Email direct to blj@blj.org.uk if you want one. Cheers Bryan

[puppytrax]

Just to pass on a success story...   

I never heard anything more from either of these two companies/parts suppliers...   

But I decided that I'd try the drilling anyway...So I clamped the caliper with the snapped off bleeder screw into my Chinese 3in1 drill/mill/lathe and milled the screw off flush with the caliper body. I was expecting to see the hole in the middle, but no hole...WTF???...solid steel...So, I centerpunched it and started drilling with the same size drill as the hole in another spare used Honda bleeder screw...drill down about 1/4", still solid steel...This ain't right...So I switch to a 1/8" drill; get down to about 3/8"...still solid steel...move up to 3/16" dia, drill down...still solid steel...this is getting weird...is this a bolt??... 

So now I pull out the other Honda bleeder; it's 7mm x 1.0, so I start moving up in diameter...and while drilling, a piece of steel pops up......so I grab a pair of pliers and pull it out...it's 3/8" long, and has three flat sides...It's a piece of an Allen wrench!!!...The PO tried to use an Allen wrench to easy-out it out and it snapped off!!!...  OK, we're on the right track now! The steel that's left now is nice & soft; and best of all, a lot of the crap coming out of the hole is brown rust! I move up to #1 drill bit down 1/2", finally an A drill...and now my easy-out cracks what's left of the bleeder screw loose and it backs out! Yay!!!   

So now I have a nice clean hole (chased by a 7mmx1.0 tap) and a good looking caliper, all cleaned up and ready for new parts. I'm not sure if the last drill bit hit the bottom of the bleeder bore or not, but I don't think it will matter as long as the new bleeder screw plugs the hole. I'll find that out soon enough!     If it did take a bite out of the bleeder bore hole, I think what I'll do is center the hole in the drill press and carefully run a drill down and face off the seat for the bleeder screw...

...That would be Plan B...   

[bryanj]

WELL DONE! You see there can be sucess stories. I still have a couple of the repair kits to hand for those that dont work. A lot easier with a proper pedestal drill tho' issnt it?

[ic455]

I really need one of the 1235s, did a little digging on the net....follow this link to order yours (look for the P/N 1230 or 1235)
http://www.autopart.com/TOOLS/TOOLSMAIN/category/c6.htm

[crazypj]

As long as your reasonably careful and dont try to go directly to 6 or 7mm its pretty difficult to damage seating. The worst that normally happens is you polish the seat slightly.
I did a real quick sketch of section through bleed nipple to explain. If you drill down slow the bottom part breaks off when you get near size and prevents damage.
PJ

[puppytrax]

This is all good stuff. 

I was all set to order one of those Bleeder Kits that Bryan mentions above...(I have another caliper that I had to drill the bleeder screw out of, and I went off center and it leaks... 

But it dawned on me that I don't really need the kits...just a new bleeder screw and a brass pipe plug...I can drill & tap & install & drill and tap again...rright in the mill vise...and a seat is really no problem; a drill or even an end mill will do, as long as it is centered on the new tapped hole...

I'm going to try this tomorrow...if I can find a solid brass pipe plug...and a 5/16" bleeder screw...   

[bryanj]

Sure can but if it costs less than $10 isnt your time more valuable?

[puppytrax]

Sure can but if it costs less than $10 isnt your time more valuable?

Not if it takes 10 days or more to get it...and a minimum order amount...   

But I did find out that the [US] NAPA stores carry a couple of "universal brake bleeder kits" similar (maybe the same) as the CTA kits...I ordered one of each of the smaller sizes; should be in this afternoon...and we shall see what we shall see...   

[puppytrax]

Well, the two smaller of the NAPA "Bleeder Screw Adapter Kits" came in, I bought one of each...Here's what they look like...They're a two-piece unit; both parts are steel, not brass, like I thought they would be...the smaller requires a 1/8 NPT [pipe] tapped hole; the other uses a 7/16"x20 UNF [straight] tapped hole...Both recommend using Loctite 271 Sealer to seal the insert threads...

[puppytrax]

I took lots of pics, but my Chinese digital camera crapped out...   

Here's the best shot of the completed tapped hole...none of the rest of the step-by-step shots came out... 

[puppytrax]

...and here's the finished CB750F caliper, with bleeder repair kit installed...Yay!!!... 

[bryanj]

I think they are the same kits just packaged different. Glad you got it sorted out mate and hope i was of some help.

[puppytrax]

I think they are the same kits just packaged different. Glad you got it sorted out mate and hope i was of some help.

Couldn't have done it without you, mate! 

I'm still concerned about the steel on steel seating...I will have to find some hex head brass plugs and have a go at making some spares...

But you are spot-on about rescuing old calipers from the dumpster...I've turned in several auto calipers for cores when this would have saved me $$$...   

(I'm going to buy a couple more of these for my tool box)

[scout18]

So where does the bleeder seat? Does it seat ontothe original seat or is there a seat in the bottom of the adapter?

[puppytrax]

So where does the bleeder seat? Does it seat ontothe original seat or is there a seat in the bottom of the adapter?

There is a seat in the bottom of the adapter. The tip about sealing the adapter-to-caliper thread is a good one. It will likely leak otherwise. (It also advises to let the Loctite 271 cure 24 hours before bleeding).

[scout18]

that is awesome. I have a Napa right up the street 2 calipers to repair.

[puppytrax]

that is awesome. I have a Napa right up the street 2 calipers to repair.

NAPA charges ~$5 each; the ones Bryan linked to were half that...   

BTW: There doesn't seem to be any instruction sheet given with them anymore (I bought two more kits for spares), but if you ask them to look up the part numbers in their parts book, the instructions are printed with each part number...The BF17 seems to be the more useful of the two (7/16"x20 UNF thread)...They recommend you have ~1/8" wall around the hole minimum...