Topic: Newb in need of help with 1974 Honda CB550

[anuhn]

I recently bought a 1974 Honda CB550 on craigslist and everything seemed fine with the bike until I brought it home.

The previous owner told me that the "top portion" of the engine is all rebuilt and it has about 10 miles.


Here is what I have replaced/serviced so far:
Oil
Tires
Battery
Front Brake Lines as well as caliper assembly (Literally seized up in the middle of traffic)
Master Cylinder
Starter Solenoid

But all of this wasn't the main problem I'm running into.

The first problem I'm running into is that the bike does not pick up at all.
0-45 takes what seems like an eternity, probably about 15-20 secs. Cars behind me are literally on my back before they change lanes.
I can try and record a video when I get back home from work.

Second problem is that the carbs would sometimes, I'm not sure of the term, but I will say that the carb "sneezes" haha as if maybe it's getting too much fuel.
It's on pods and a 2-1 exhaust. The previous owner told me that the main jet is 104 and the slow/idle jet is at 40. Haven't pulled them out to check.
The spark plugs are definitely fouled when I pull them out, but I am not sure what is causing it. I don't know if its the valve seals (?) when he rebuilt the engine or if its getting too much gas. I don't know if this helps or not, but the left two (1 and 2) exhausts are a bit cold compared to (3 and 4). When I say cold, I mean the exhaust air that comes out is colder than the right side. The pipes are hot, just not the "air"

Third problem is that it hangs on idles around 2k-3k for a good while, but when it eventually drops, it drops all the way down to around 300-500 for a bit and dies.

Last problem is that I get this weird liquid that doesnt look/smell like oil or gas that builds up on the top sides of the engine when I go riding for about 10 minutes.
When it burns it smells like burnt food. My guess is that it's oil, but I am not sure. I will take pictures when I get home.
My guess is it needs a new valve gasket, but I could be wrong?


My problem is that I do not know where to start and what to get. I'm willing to learn because I love this bike, its a beauty, and it's such a great feeling to go riding.

I was going to see if cleaning the gas tank and carbs would help, but I would like to trouble shoot what could be causing the slow acceleration first, unless you guys think otherwise.
Just not sure where to start.

It would be greatly appreciated for the help I get.

[Johnie]

Makes me wonder if the previous owner sold the bike after a questionable "top portion" rebuild. Do you know if he did the work or if a shop did it? You have to wonder about their mechanical skills. If it was me I would look at the bike as if nothing has been done. I would start with a compression check. Then work it from there. You have to check stuff and mark it off your list. Compression, valve clearance, points, condensers, timing, cam chain adjustment, carbs, jetting, and carb sync. Looks like someone put a lot of time into the cosmetics, could not get it running right, sold it to you. It is a nice looking bike. Good luck with it and welcome to the board. There is a lot of great 550 guys on here to help you out.

[anuhn]

Makes me wonder if the previous owner sold the bike after a questionable "top portion" rebuild. Do you know if he did the work or if a shop did it?

He rebuilt it himself. I pretty much trust him and he comes out to help when he can, but I really don't want him driving out 1-2 hours just to come out and help me, I feel really bad for such a long ride. He has a bunch of vintage bikes lying around and has another 550 that he is working on. You could be right on the working on cosmetics and trying to get rid of the thing asap. If anything, it gives me an opportunity to work on the bike myself and learn a couple things here and there.

I have never done a compression check before but I will look into it.

[Stev-o]

First off, welcome.  550's are great bikes, I have two.  If the plugs are fouled, replace them.  Sounds like it's not running on all four cylinders.  Once running, check header temp by the engine, use a wet towel for the sizzle test.  Idle should be around 1200, set it when fully warmed up. 

FYI - these bikes with pods and aftermarket exhaust can be hard to fine tune, might take some jet changes to get it just right. 

[anuhn]

First off, welcome.  550's are great bikes, I have two.  If the plugs are fouled, replace them.  Sounds like it's not running on all four cylinders.  Once running, check header temp by the engine, use a wet towel for the sizzle test.  Idle should be around 1200, set it when fully warmed up. 

Thanks for the welcome

They're running on all four, I sprayed water on all four and they all bubble up and evaporate.

As for the idle. It's hard to do/annoying. Once it settles down into the 300-500's I can adjust the idle screw so that it sits at 1.2k, but once I rev it up, it hangs up into the 3k for a long time, sometimes takes a good minute or two before it even goes down. Always does this when I give it some throttle.

[calj737]

As Stev-o said, welcome, these are great bikes. You've bought a project, not a rung bike. It's okay, because with some effort and beer, you can make it run as well as you like the looks of it.

Now on to your problems:

Here is what I have replaced/serviced so far:
Oil - not needed if only 10 miles, but that's fine. What oil did you put back in?

The first problem I'm running into is that the bike does not pick up at all.  This sounds distinctly as though not all cylinders are firing, especially given your statements below

Second problem is that the carbs would sometimes, I'm not sure of the term, but I will say that the carb "sneezes" haha as if maybe it's getting too much fuel.  [color=blueThe first thing I'd check is whether the spark plug wires are on their correct coils. Seated on the bike, the cylinders are numbered 1-4, left to right. The coil in your left feeds cylinders 1&4, right side coil serves cylinders 2&3][/color]
It's on pods and a 2-1 exhaust. The previous owner told me that the main jet is 104  105and the slow/idle jet is at 40. Haven't pulled them out to check.

The spark plugs are definitely fouled when I pull them out, but I am not sure what is causing it. I don't know if its the valve seals (?) when he rebuilt the engine or if its getting too much gas. I don't know if this helps or not, but the left two (1 and 2) exhausts are a bit cold compared to (3 and 4). When I say cold, I mean the exhaust air that comes out is colder than the right side. The pipes are hot, just not the "air"  More suspicious of the coil leads with this. If wires incorrectly, it would heat only consecutive cylinders and not fire on the other pair. Can you snap a picture of the plugs? Do they smell of gas?

Third problem is that it hangs on idles around 2k-3k for a good while, but when it eventually drops, it drops all the way down to around 300-500 for a bit and dies.  Between your pods and the carbs are rubber boots, what you describe is often associated with a vacuum leak, and not synch'ed carbs. Once you figure out the ignition issues of cylinders not firing, it's time to get the carbs properly synch'ed and idle screws set. Let's hold on this for a moment

Last problem is that I get this weird liquid that doesnt look/smell like oil or gas that builds up on the top sides of the engine when I go riding for about 10 minutes.  Is it more a grease than oil? Could be something the PO used as a gasket sealer coming through the breather vent?
When it burns it smells like burnt food. My guess is that it's oil, but I am not sure. I will take pictures when I get home. Hopefully not like burnt Indian food... That's a bad sign!
My guess is it needs a new valve gasket, but I could be wrong? It shouldn't if just undergone a top-end rebuild, but without meaning any disrespect to the PO, it sounds as though he's unfamiliar with these bikes. Thus, a gasket may be needed.

My problem is that I do not know where to start and what to get. I'm willing to learn because I love this bike, its a beauty, and it's such a great feeling to go riding.  First, download a manual from this site. You'll need one to do anything on this bike. Do you have a multi-meter? It's a great tool to own. Also, metric tools only. Every nut and bolt on this bike is metric. Never use SAE, and if you encounter any, replace with proper metrics.

I was going to see if cleaning the gas tank  does the interior appear to be rusty?
and carbs would help  may be necessary, but not yet
but I would like to trouble shoot what could be causing the slow acceleration first, unless you guys think otherwise.  youre close; first solve the firing on all 4 cylinders
Just not sure where to start.  at the beginning, Grasshopper, always at the beginng.

So, manual first. Then let's get some pictures of the coils, spark plug leads, and carbs. Inspect the tank, and declare it clean or rusty.

Please pull the plugs, and post some pics. Keep them organized by cylinder number when you pull them and post the picture. Expect to replace them with a new set anyway.

Do you know whether the bike has points and condensers or electronic ignition? You can determine this by removing the small metallic round cover on the right side of the engine (Two cross screws) holding the cap on. Take a picture of that too please.

If I had to describe your bike, I'd say it was "maintenanced" for a leak. I doubt seriously a top-end rebuild was done, as this entails more in-depth mechanical efforts and possibly some machining. The PO sounds a nice guy, but may be a "flipper" and not a builder/trained mechanic. That's okay, everything wrong can be fixed pretty easily, and inexpensively. We will happily walk you thru, step-by-step of each phase and area so that your new bike is safe, reliable, and tons of fun. You just need a camera, a manual, some patience, and (setup a PhotoBucket account to post your volumes of pictures, it's much easier and faster) tons of beer!

So I see from your update the cylinders are all firing, so you can dispel with the plug lead traces. Sounds much more like a fuel issue, and synch/vacuum leak.

[Bankerdanny]

Since you have the stock side covers I would keep my eyes open for an airbox so you can ditch the pods.

They key here is that you need to be systematic in your trouble shooting and repairs. Don't do multiple things at a time.

I would start with basic tuneup things: setting the valve clearances, double check the timing and set the point gap, install new plugs properly gapped. Test ride. How does it perform? Still have a flat spot?

Search the term 'plug chop' and then follow the instructions. It's easy to do and helps check the fuel/air mixture over a range of RPM's. Different areas of the carb, slow jets, main jets, needle, air screws, come into play at different throttle openings. So checking plug color over a range of RPM's under load can help narrow down which might be the issue.

When you say the plugs are fouled. Do they smell like gas? Then the issue is excess fuel. If they are oily then the issue is, well, oil, and could possibly be the seals.

Idle wise, your bike does not have a fast idle cam the way the late model K bikes did. When you start it cold with the choke you need to use the throttle to keep the RPM's up until the engine is warm enough to idle on its own. That's what Stev-O meant about setting the idle speed hot. My 550 seemed happy at about 1,000 rpms, but I know spec is a bit lower than that.

In the end you should not have flat spots. The 550 isn't fast by modern standards, but it is still much faster than the average car and you should be able to pull away from a stop sign/light with authority.

[anuhn]

Update these plugs are brand new:
Will be showing a video of the idle and the idle after a ride when its warmed up shortly.

Spark Plug #1:

Does the black circled mean anything?

Spark Plug #2:


Spark Plug #3:


Spark Plug #4:

[goldarrow]

Plug #4 looks very good

[anuhn]

Update of the unknown liquid, it will be kind of hard to tell, but the "shiny" part as well as the weird green algae looking stuff is the liquid.

[Stev-o]

Plug #4 looks very good

+1 the others look like you are running rich.  Your motor looks odd, like he painted it without doing proper prep. And the fins on the cylinder are bent, most likely the bike fell over on something [cosmetic issue only]. You sure the "weird green liquid" is not oil?

I think Cal is right [he always is!] you've been hit by a flipper!

[anuhn]

So, manual first. Then let's get some pictures of the coils, spark plug leads, and carbs. Inspect the tank, and declare it clean or rusty.

Do you know whether the bike has points and condensers or electronic ignition?

Gas tank, not sure how to get good pictures, haha.


It is a condenser. He was recommending me to get an electronic ignition since he said he is having a pain with his cb550.

Here is the idle and what it sounds like cold. It didn't drop like it usually does in the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TF2eJP8K_A

After a quick short ride
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nqnTCZUsdA

You sure the "weird green liquid" is not oil?

Maybe it is, I just wasn't sure. Doesn't smell like gas or oil, but I could be wrong.

[billingstitan]

These 550s are awesome bikes - welcome to the madness. That is a beauty for sure!

As you've already heard, aftermarket pods and exhaust will both require tuning your carbs.

If I were in your shoes, first two things I would check are ignition & do a carb synch. Check your points - both condition and proper gap, and your timing; and when that is spot on, synch your carbs.

That will rule in/out several major and fairly simple fixes. If you don't have a synch tool, buy one. You'll need it.

Airbox would be MY first priority - but I'm not a pod guy. Just be aware they seem to make tuning more complicated.

That said - I don't know, as I've never tried pods (although I do enjoy the crazy passion that the pods vs. no-pods discussion seems to incite on this forum) 

I'm okay w/ a wrench - but have a difficult enough time just keeping them running, so for me the airbox is always the first order of business as that provides a good baseline as far as jetting, etc.

I have an aftermarket exhaust on one bike and stock on the other - did not find it particularly difficult to tune for the 4-into-1 w/ the stock airbox.

W/ pods, a 105 main jet would seem reasonable - but that's just speculation, there's other guys that can give you the DL on pods - I run a 98 main w/ my exhaust and am about 3,000 elev.

[Stev-o]

So, manual first. Then let's get some pictures of the coils, spark plug leads, and carbs. Inspect the tank, and declare it clean or rusty.

Do you know whether the bike has points and condensers or electronic ignition?

Gas tank, not sure how to get good pictures, haha.


It is a condenser. He was recommending me to get an electronic ignition since he said he is having a pain with his cb550.

Here is the idle and what it sounds like cold. It didn't drop like it usually does in the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TF2eJP8K_A

2nd one coming after it processes.

You sure the "weird green liquid" is not oil?

Maybe it is, I just wasn't sure. Doesn't smell like gas or oil, but I could be wrong.

Look in your tank with a good flashlight and describe what you see.

The bike doesnt sound bad, the idle is a little high and it desperately needs a carb sync
[4 vacuum gauges on a rack, nice tool to have].
Your tach is bad, hence the bouncing needle, no biggie, just letting you know its not your engine.

The PO suggested getting electronic ignition?  That points to him not knowing how to tune a bike with points

[Vinhead1957]

No smoke?   Oil fouled would have a blue tinge. White smoke unburned or contaminated fuel. I would drop the bowls on 1-3 and make sure the float valves are working. Make sure of the float level. Clear tube method. Yank the pods on those cylinders and look through them to see the sunshine.  Then some new plugs and a tank of fresh gas. Cheap insurance. One of those plugs has a glaze on it that would make me think there is some varnish in the fuel delivery

[anuhn]

No smoke?

No, no smoke at all coming from the exhausts

[calj737]

I'm with Stev-o. Bikes been flipped and poorly out together. But don't worry, it's not hard or bad.

The green slime has got to be oil mixed with a rattle can paint job on a dirty engine. You're leaking oil from the head gasket (probably) end caps (maybe) and probably don't have the o-rings installed on the rocker cover.

Carbs need a thorough going through (that's the bad news). Good news is there's tons of threads of do's and dont's on here to help.

I'd recommend new points and new condensers. PO didn't service the bike, so you need to. What sort of workspace and tools do you have?

[anuhn]

The green slime has got to be oil mixed with a rattle can paint job on a dirty engine. You're leaking oil from the head gasket (probably) end caps (maybe) and probably don't have the o-rings installed on the rocker cover.

Carbs need a thorough going through (that's the bad news). Good news is there's tons of threads of do's and dont's on here to help.

I'd recommend new points and new condensers. PO didn't service the bike, so you need to. What sort of workspace and tools do you have?

If anything I am willing to change out all the gaskets/o-rings.

Is there a recommended online shop you suggest?

I do not have a carb sync tool nor a compression tester. The tools I basically have right now just the basic metric sockets, screw drivers, Allen key sets, etc.
I usually go to my friend's house with all the tools but he is only available on the weekends.

[calj737]

Fom where you are, you can drive down to Largo and go to the counter at Dime City Cycles.heyll have gaskets, plugs, points, etc. They have an online presence too, but faster and cheaper sometimes to pickup locally.

Worst case, they might also be able to fine-tune your bike when you get to that point of needing more experience than you have available (or time and tools). Have you pulled down a manual from online on this site?

The services listed in the 3,000 mile interval should be your target for priorities. That will entail a good, thorough tune up, carb cleaning and adjustment, plus numerous (fully expect them to be needed) safety checks on chain, sprockets, bearings, fork oil, etc.

A it happens, I'm heading to New Port Richey next Friday to visit me mum. I'll be around for several days, and if you get in a pinch, I'm happy to come past and help you with some stuff. Might be enough to get you on your way, and at least give you a really good orientation on the whole bike. If you get in jam, give me a holler. I'll do what I can-

[anuhn]

Fom where you are, you can drive down to Largo and go to the counter at Dime City Cycles.heyll have gaskets, plugs, points, etc. They have an online presence too, but faster and cheaper sometimes to pickup locally.

Worst case, they might also be able to fine-tune your bike when you get to that point of needing more experience than you have available (or time and tools). Have you pulled down a manual from online on this site?

The services listed in the 3,000 mile interval should be your target for priorities. That will entail a good, thorough tune up, carb cleaning and adjustment, plus numerous (fully expect them to be needed) safety checks on chain, sprockets, bearings, fork oil, etc.

A it happens, I'm heading to New Port Richey next Friday to visit me mum. I'll be around for several days, and if you get in a pinch, I'm happy to come past and help you with some stuff. Might be enough to get you on your way, and at least give you a really good orientation on the whole bike. If you get in jam, give me a holler. I'll do what I can-

Yeah, I got the manual and have been going through it.

I cleaned all the spark plugs with a wire brush and the bike is picking up a lot faster. My guess would be that Spark Plug #1 was so fouled that it wouldn't give a good spark?

That would be greatly appreciated, I live about 15-20 mins from NPR. If I can't get this figured out and you're still here during the week, I'll give you a PM

Here is the idle dropping that I was talking about, I mess around with the idle screw, am not sure which is the "real" idle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Slx6G1CiR4

[Tews19]

Cal and Stev-o have you on the right path. The last video you can see you have a nasty oil leak from the cover. It wasn't as prominent in the first video as it is now. If this were me I would do the following. ..

1-Take the tank off and flush it real well with vinegar.. let soak for a few days. I can go through my process if you would like. Just PM me.
2 - change the oil and the spark plugs. Get good motorcycle oil.
3- get the orings Cal recommended.
4- 3k tune up; adjust valves, adjust cam tensioner,  sync carbs..... only sync carbs after a good cleaning.

From the video your bike seems neglected by a PO but has found its way to someone who wants to make it road worthy.

[calj737]

...and  make sure every washer, puck, o-ring and torque value are properly installed and set. This alone will make your new bike much happier and roadworthy for years to come.

I'm going to say this every time, nothing we are describing is extreme or difficult. You have most of the tools necessary, with the exception of a torque wrench, an impact driver (those screws on the motor aren't Phillips, they're JIS, and they can be a bother to remove), synch gauges, and a multi-meter. Equipped with that, you can build/rebuild about any metric machine.

Most members replace those JIS screws with Allen heads, stainless steel sets in fact. They resist corrosion much longer. And given your climate, SS will be worth the effort. DCC sells full sets, or here's another place with everything labeled for you: http://alloyboltz.com/catalog/shopping_cart.php?sort=3a&osCsid=gelcmhnk8krcivmiao4ga13os3

Pretty hard to beat the price, and every set comes fully bagged by cover, and labeled. Pretty convenient actually.

Replacing the gaskets is more about technique than torque. They're oddly shaped, and not symmetrical. Lots of folks get it wrong. And there's several small oil "pucks" and o-rings that go on, in odd places. Always important to look at a parts fiche diagram for your engine to insure you have all the pieces in the proper location. Your PO may have not done so, and he wouldn't be the first to overlook some things. Book mark this page too: http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb550k1-four-1975-usa_model466/partslist/

And none of what's being written about you or he, should be construed as disparaging. Nothing wrong at all with flipping bikes. And nothin unusual at all about buying a bike that needs some TLC. We all do it, thus the existence of this forum.

My latest $200 purchase, in fact:

See, you're much farther along and better off than I. But with a bit of wrenching, lots of WD-40 and some time, it'll look like this:

[anuhn]

From what I was going with the replies, I would like some feed back on this, I am going to (in this order):

1) Clean the tank out of rust
2) Take the carbs out and clean them as well
3) Check compression
4) Once the tank and carbs are cleaned, sync the carbs (maybe take this to the near motorcycle shop since I dont have the tool?)
5) 3K tuneup, Adjust points? (Not sure how to do this one, even looked at manual and really confused) Unless convinced to go the electronic ignition route?
6) Take the top portion of the engine apart and find the proper gaskets/orings (which I will be the hardest part for me) for the oil leaks.

[calj737]

From what I was going with the replies, I would like some feed back on this, I am going to (in this order):

1) Clean the tank out of rust
2) Check compression
3) Take the carbs out and clean them as well
4) Take the top portion of the engine apart and find the proper gaskets/orings (which I will be the hardest part for me) for the oil leaks.
5) 3K tuneup, Adjust points? (Not sure how to do this one, even looked at manual and really confused) Unless convinced to go the electronic ignition route?
6) Once the tank and carbs are cleaned 3k service is done, sync the carbs

FTFY

[anuhn]

FTFY

Thanks, I'll get back to you guys in the process. Been a bit busy this week