Author Topic: '81 CB650 Oil Filter Change going bad - help....  (Read 5490 times)

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CB650Tex

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'81 CB650 Oil Filter Change going bad - help....
« on: September 24, 2006, 06:55:40 PM »
I recently got an '81 CB650A. As part of getting it all sorted and roadworthy, I want to give it an oil change.  It drained out through the sump plug OK and I then moved on to take the filter off.  Unfortunately, the oil filter assembly bolt seems completely seized up.  And now my wrench has started chewing the corners off the bolt head.  (After the bolt had done the same to a cheap socket...)

I've soaked the bolt head in WD-40, tried thumping the bolt head with a drift and hammer, tried hitting the end of my wrench with a hammer (whilst the wrench is on the bolt head!).  NOthing seems to be helping.

Now, I'm guessing part of the problem is that it's probably not had a filter change for an awfully long time.  Which means the filter is probably full of gunge so changing the filter is probably a good idea.  However, I could just give up and put the new oil in and continue to run the old filter...

The only other thought I've got is to wait until the whole thing is totally cooled down (it was pretty hot as it'd been running for quite some time before draining the sump).  Perhaps when it's so hot, everything has seized up so I need to wait for it to cool off.  Just a bit anxious about trying it as it may damage the head more...

Anyone got any suggestions on how to get the wretched thing undone without destroying it - I'd rather not spend $60 on a new
one...

Offline tomkimberly

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Re: '81 CB650 Oil Filter Change going bad - help....
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2006, 07:08:36 PM »
Use a six point socket only and it will help a lot to use a 1/2" drive ratchet that is at least 14" long. If you use a 12 pont socket, all you are going to do is round the head off the bolt.

BTW, you more than likely have the small headed version of the oil filter bolt, there is a larger one and when you go to replace the one you have, get it.

Tom

Offline rab1dwolf

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Re: '81 CB650 Oil Filter Change going bad - help....
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2006, 10:00:59 PM »
mine was already stripped when i bought my bike so I used a pipe wrench on it.  Basically destroyed the head of the bolt but it came off.  I replaced it with the bigger headed version thats now available...so much easier to remove now:)
1982 cb650sc nighthawk.  the work never stops.

Offline Einyodeler

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Re: '81 CB650 Oil Filter Change going bad - help....
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2006, 10:09:21 PM »
And when you put your new bolt on only tighten it just snug at 19 - 23 lbs/ft ( 2.7 - 3.3 kg/m ). Every old Honda I`ve bought the       P O`s way overtightened the bolts to keep them from leaking, there`s no need ,that`s what the o-rings are for.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2006, 10:13:10 PM by Einyodeler »
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Offline 750goes

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Re: '81 CB650 Oil Filter Change going bad - help....
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2006, 12:23:36 AM »
If the head of the bolt is really chewed up a few members have mentioned the following ideas.

Grind the bolt head into a square shape or something with two parralel sides, and get a real good grip on it - it will come off.

Weld a large NUT on the existing bolt head and use that to undo it.

either way have a replacement ready or use the modified bolt until you have another one.. :)

CB650Tex

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Re: '81 CB650 Oil Filter Change going bad - help....
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2006, 07:56:50 PM »
Thanks for all the great advice.

The short version is - it's off now, no problems once I got the right tool for the job.

And now for embarrassing idiot-confession time - I think the fundamental problem was I was using a 13mm socket when it's actually a 12mm head. D'oh.  I didn't realise this until the thing was in my hands and I was checking the fit against my wrench.  Have already started writing out 100 times, "I'm an idiot, I must not use the wrong size wrench or socket."...

I think my idiocy was a combination of: late in the day/tired so poor judgement, poor light, press-on-itis, poor access (the foot rest/fender bar thing is in just the wrong place, as is the front wheel...) and just being a bit thick.  The good news is that I've acquired a few more shiny new tools!

I went with the "get a decent 6 point socket and a long handle (15 incher)" route first - unfortunately, the socket just went round and round (well, it would, wouldn't it - it was the wrong size!).  So then I went for the desperation ploy - a Craftsman Bolt-Out "as seen on TV" kit.  Worked straight away (once I'd got the right size on!).  Once started, I tried the regular (i.e. one size too large) socket out of curiosity and it worked ok.

Have now removed the worst of the rounding off on the edges and I think that it should all be OK if I use the right size socket.

There is one more question now - what should I use to punch out the pin in the bolt that holds the oil filter bypass valve together?

It's a very small diameter pin, maybe 2-3 mm, and I've nothing small enough and strong enough...

Thanks again for the help.

Offline Einyodeler

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Re: '81 CB650 Oil Filter Change going bad - help....
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2006, 09:49:07 PM »
Why do you need  to punch out the pin ???
1972 CB500 - 1973 CB500 - 1974 CB550K - 1975 CB550F - 1975 CB750F - 1976 CJ360 - 1983 CR480 - 1970 BSA A65T Thunderbolt



Download Motorcycle Shop Manuals here: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=17788.0

CB650Tex

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Re: '81 CB650 Oil Filter Change going bad - help....
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2006, 04:50:02 AM »
The Haynes manual says that you need to get the pin out to clean the parts that make up the bypass valve.  I'm guessing that it's probably not been done before/for a long while so just wanted to be thorough.

Offline cb650

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Re: '81 CB650 Oil Filter Change going bad - help....
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2006, 04:53:49 AM »
Never done one of mine.   Does it look like its full of #$%*?




                       Terry
18 grand and 18 miles dont make you a biker

Offline bryanj

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Re: '81 CB650 Oil Filter Change going bad - help....
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2006, 05:08:18 AM »
If you rounded the head you need a new one and they come complete with the bypass valve ALSO NEVER, in 30 years, have i stripped one out. Ignore the manual at that point!
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

CB650Tex

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Re: '81 CB650 Oil Filter Change going bad - help....
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2006, 06:30:24 AM »
When I poked something around on the top of the bypass valve, it came back covered in really sludgy black oil - good'n'thick'n'gloopy stuff.  So I think it would be good to clean it up - and it would make my Dad proud to know that I was doing a thorough job, just like he would do!

As for the bolt head, now that I've cleaned up the damage a bit, it doesn't look too bad, especially with the right size wrench on it... So I think I'm just going to reuse it for now.  If worst comes to worst, I can always use my new Bolt-out tool again next time!  However, I think that if I only tighten it up as recommended above AND use the right wrench from now on (and put a little anti-seize compound on the thread), it should all be OK.  It certainly doesn't seem worth sinking $60 in now for a head that seems workable...

Are these "large" headed items an after-market product?  (And where can I get one?)  Or is that what Honda has changed to using?

Offline bryanj

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Re: '81 CB650 Oil Filter Change going bad - help....
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2006, 09:17:10 AM »
The large head is an after market part and NOT endorsed by Honda--Honda only used the small head so the bolt could not be overtightened or striff the crankcase threads
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline jevfro

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Re: '81 CB650 Oil Filter Change going bad - help....
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2006, 10:24:05 AM »
I think this may fit...

http://www.z1enterprises.com/detail.aspx?ID=1858

 and it's <$8

CB650Tex

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Re: '81 CB650 Oil Filter Change going bad - help....
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2006, 08:38:34 PM »
For eight bucks, I'll give it a whirl (well, 14 when you add shipping - but still a lot less than $60 from Honda...).

Thanks for the info.

Offline jevfro

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Re: '81 CB650 Oil Filter Change going bad - help....
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2006, 12:58:08 PM »
actually partsandmore and crc2 both have them too... shipping might be cheaper.  I'm going to order one soon so maybe I'll figure out who has best price.. haven't dealt w/ z1enterprises yet and I think they might be a good business to try.  (owner is on the forum I believe...)

http://www.crc2onlinecatalog.com/Index_Main_Frame.htm
part#OFBOLT351  approx. $10+shipping

https://www.partsnmore.com/cat_index.php?model=cb750_sohc&category=engine
Part#15-3020 approx. $10+shipping