Topic: Those dastardly phillips heads on the valve cover

[eigenvector]

Keep them or replace them?

I for one am a staunch advocate for hex barrel head bolts so I tend to get rid of those phillip head screws that Honda so loves whenever I can.

But I'm curious, why not use hex bolts to begin with?  I notice that they used a lot of phillip head screws on this bike(CB550) even to secure the generator cover.  The end result is typically a lot of stripped out screws, followed next by drilling. 

Of course penetrating oil is always advisable as the first option.

[calj737]

First, they're not Phillips, they're JIS. May be why you're struggling to remove them. As for them being inferior (if that's what you're inferring) they have held up for 40 years and are only installed in "no-torque" locations making them perfectly appropriate in their use.

Socket head cap bolts (what you are calling barrel hex) have become far more popular as they're more widely used internationally in factory production. They're faster to turn in and suffer less stripping out.

It's quite common to replace the JIS screws with either socket heads or flange heads (also now common on motorcycles) in either stainless or plated steel. Be sure to use AntiSieze lubricant with them as you're installing into alloy cases.

[eigenvector]

No wonder I've been stripping them out - well that and 40 years of corrosion.

Never heard of JIS, and can't see myself ever owning the proper bit to remove or install them.  So yes, barrel heads it is.  The only place where you can't use them is next to the exhaust valve covers - the cover comes too close to the screw.  For that I have to resort to using flange head hex head bolts.  Edit:  Button head - that's what those are called.

JIS screws... learned something new.

[calj737]

Socket head cap screws are the "barrel" type. Button head cap screws are the "domed" top type.

You can also use the flange head hex heads in all these locations. They're 6mm and the flange is slightly smaller in diameter than the socket head, and there lower profile than button head. Japanese Industrial Standard (JIS) bits are widely available and make removal of these screws a breeze as they lock in properly.

Or drill them off. Or use an impact and #3 Phillips.

[rickman750]

JIS screws... learned something new.

Japanese Industrial Standard. Not the other thing.

[eigenvector]

Socket head cap screws are the "barrel" type. Button head cap screws are the "domed" top type.

You can also use the flange head hex heads in all these locations. They're 6mm and the flange is slightly smaller in diameter than the socket head, and there lower profile than button head. Japanese Industrial Standard (JIS) bits are widely available and make removal of these screws a breeze as they lock in properly.

Or drill them off. Or use an impact and #3 Phillips.

A drill bit makes removal a breeze.  Those screws are SOOO soft.  Part of the reason why I don't like them.  That said, I prefer to not do that if I can.  I'll go at it with penetrating oil and patience first.

I should mention that I'm tearing down the 2 engines that I recently picked up.

[calj737]

If you want the best upgrade for these, step up to ARP 12point stainless bolts and nuts.

[Tempast]

12 points are probably the absolute worst bolts to use... They round off so easily if you slip.

[PeWe]

Allen head screws very common here.  Screw drivers found in all shops as well.

[calj737]

12 points are probably the absolute worst bolts to use... They round off so easily if you slip.

You obviously have Zero experience with ARP bolts to have that opinion. They are among the strongest bolts on the market, and are 170,000-190,000PSI tensile strength. They're used in more heavy duty applications than any other bolt.

And as stated above, none of the locations for the bolts in question (JIS screws or Cap heads) are in high torque areas. If you can round off a 12 pt SS ARP, you're in the wrong line of work-

[Dan50]

For what it's worth, I've always had success with the old fashioned impact driver on those phillips head bolts - the kind you hit with a hammer.  The new cordless jobs probably work OK too.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-8-Drive-Hand-Impact-Screwdriver-Wrench-w-Bits-Case-Screw-Driver-Reversible-/131201058135?pt=Power_Tools&hash=item1e8c314557

[bjbuchanan]

Whack the he'll out of them with a handheld impact then hit eBay for the stainless socket caps. Done and over with for 25$

Side note: you a linear algebra/matrices explorer type of guy? Brings back a former life lol

[eigenvector]

I did managed to get them all out - didn't even resort to drilling.

Of course 4 of them aren't going to be saved, but at least I didn't have to use the drill.  Grabbed them with the vice grips and they were surprisingly easy to remove.

Now that I've got it all apart, next comes trying to get that head and cylinder separated.

[mrbreeze]

12 points are probably the absolute worst bolts to use... They round off so easily if you slip.

You obviously have Zero experience with ARP bolts to have that opinion. They are among the strongest bolts on the market, and are 170,000-190,000PSI tensile strength. They're used in more heavy duty applications than any other bolt.

And as stated above, none of the locations for the bolts in question (JIS screws or Cap heads) are in high torque areas. If you can round off a 12 pt SS ARP, you're in the wrong line of work-

These are good bolts.I had a set on my 327 intake. You can tell by looking at em that they are the business. They cost more than allens but thats the way things are. If they are stripping out....you either need to use the right size or get better tools.

[calj737]

Victor - be sure to release all the tension on the rockers first lest you bend a valve. Restrain the rockers with a rubber band slipped over intake side rocker arm, thru tappet hole, over cover, then back in to exhaust side.

And double-check the parts fiche to insure you've removed every screw. You'd be surprised how many times a screw or bolt hides during disassembly. Then gentle prying with wood shims on the corners aides in separating the cover, then head from the block.

And of course, the cam chain needs to released from the cam...

If the motor still turns over freely, the head should separate easily. If not, turn the 14mm nut on the alternator side, not under the points plate, to rotate the engine. If rings are sticky, it will drive the jugs up from the block helping you separate them.