Topic: Two 550's and a 500. Home stretch now

[2strokeTrush]

Where in b-more is the salvage yard? I'm local and would love to see that. Trying to assemble a 73 350f myself .

its in West Baltimore down Rt40

[2strokeTrush]

Getting little bits and pieces of this project rolling, still no word on the other 550 though

Wanted to get the complete front end off today, so I can begin sanding but I ran into trouble when I attempted to Unscrew the Allen Bots under the Axle as I was told to do.  They don't budge even a little. Hit them with penetrating oil and maybe they will free up, but for now they are stuck good.  I did However manage to dissemble the top tree and can't see any cracks as many others have reported here.  All the washers are they're so I assume thats why.  Wiring harness looks to only have 2 places someone had tampered with but I think I can fix that.







This is where I left off for the night.  I did receive a manual in the mail today, I thought he was kidding but no he actually got me one,  Thanks Stev-O!  I really appreciate it!  I have been reading it, but still unsure of how to remove the forks from here.  I did unscrew the top nut on them, and saw the spring and could smell the horrible old oil, but I screwed it back down when I Left. If someone could help me out on that I would appreciate it as well!

[seanbarney41]

An air compressor powered impact will whip those allen's out with a quickness...maybe them guys at the junkyard could buzz 'em out for you if you have no other access...to get the rest of your forks apart, loosen the bottom triple clamp bolts, slide the legs out the bottom (it will probably take one or several good wacks as they are always stuck with rust), and then the fork ears slide off the lower triple sideways...

[Stev-o]

Your welcome.  I don't see the spacers in the top triple tree, be sure to get some before you reassemble.

[grcamna2]

When I loosen those lower allen's I use an air impact just enough to 'break'em free' and then screw them back in just enough to keep the oil in until I get'em on the bench.The job is always easiest if you loosen them BEFORE removing the front fender,etc.,it keeps the lower fork sliders from spinning;the first part of my fork seal replacement is to loosen those lower allen bolts before Anything else.

[2strokeTrush]

   So I finally heard back from the seller of the other 550, bad new is the bike is in New Jersey and he can't get it for a week or so, but he said he would keep me posted so I guess thats good news, Glad to see he is alive still.

   Had another go at it tonight!  Tried heating up the lower allen key, but no luck. But I sprayed some Good Ole Wd40 around the upper top fork bolts in hopes it would slide down the fork and aid in the removal, after this it was as simple as hitting it with a hammer and they both cam out rather easily!  More rust then I imagined though, but thats ok.  After that everything else on the bike seemed to magically just fall off ....In other news I did get that green Ct70 I have been working on to start tonight! Thats gonna be a fun ride!

[Tews19]

Hey stroke, do you have matching 550 gauges?

[2strokeTrush]

Hey stroke, do you have matching 550 gauges?

No Sir, I wish I did.  Maybe the 550 on its way will

[Tews19]

Well if you are interested I have a set. If interested PM me.  They are off the 78 550 I picked up the other week. I did get nice ones from member bill bent on but those have been put to use.

[2strokeTrush]

Well if you are interested I have a set. If interested PM me.

Funny you mention that i was just talking about that in a earlier post^^  Can you PM me some pictures please

[2strokeTrush]

Been doing the whole Anniversary thing with the girlfriend all weekend, but I did manage to finish up my engine stand, Modified to fit a SOHC.  While inspecting the engine from angles not previously obtainable on the bench, I see a chunk taken out of the head gasket.  If I can't get the 77 550 I wanted for the motor, then this motor becomes priority one for the 500 swap, so this will have to be addressed.  Nervous about taking the head and cam out and reinstalling......

[2strokeTrush]

Did a few things tonight, Removed the valve cover, no stuck bolts and everything went smoothy.  About the same as the 500, but I have to be careful with this one!  Still hoping to get my 77 motor, but Ill get this one up to par no matter what.  Thinking of painting it with the engine paint aluminum color, and black jugs.  Thoughts?





Didn't find any small pieces of metal or dirt, everything looked pretty clean under here.  Does everything look alright?  How about those marks on the Cam?  Are those wear marks or something??  Ill need new black rubber "Pucks" where can I get them?



Nervously removing the cover.  I loosened the valve clearance beforehand.



Small little white flakes on 2 of the pucks. hmmmmm



Trying to keep everything organized!  My manual will specify the torque specs when I reinstall the cover correct?  If not does anyone know where I can find them?  Would it be ok to use some Locktight on the bolts?

[rtbmrgl]

Did a few things tonight, Removed the valve cover, no stuck bolts and everything went smoothy.  About the same as the 500, but I have to be careful with this one!  Still hoping to get my 77 motor, but Ill get this one up to par no matter what.  Thinking of painting it with the engine paint aluminum color, and black jugs.  Thoughts?


Didn't find any small pieces of metal or dirt, everything looked pretty clean under here.  Does everything look alright?  How about those marks on the Cam?  Are those wear marks or something??  Ill need new black rubber "Pucks" where can I get them?


Nervously removing the cover.  I loosened the valve clearance beforehand.


Small little white flakes on 2 of the pucks. hmmmmm


Trying to keep everything organized!  My manual will specify the torque specs when I reinstall the cover correct?  If not does anyone know where I can find them?  Would it be ok to use some Locktight on the bolts?

Your paint scheme sounds good to me.
The pucks came with the gasket kit i used.
I wouldn't recommend lock-tight on engine bolt, nuts, my thoughts.
The camshaft looks ok from what I see. run your fingernail across, be sure its smooth.

[grcamna2]

Tyler,
The manual should give you torque specs specifically for your top cover;I recommend that you clean out all the threads in the covers,etc. real nice w/ the help of a tap & then make sure they're fairly dry & not filled w/ oil so you get a 'dry thread' torque reading like they should be.I think it's best to use the proper torque(in a 'cross type' X tightening pattern) to hold everything down rather than loctite.I think it's good if you also measure the length of all the bolts to see if any of them have been over-torqued(by a PO) and stretched just to be sure.A good way is to match up a known good/new bolt against the other ones to see if they're the same length;if you ever see a stretched bolt it'll look like the threads have been literally 'stretched/lengthened' and when that happens it'll snap inside the threaded holes of your engine requiring you to try to remove it..a Real pain.      

[onetruepunk87]

The gasket kit I got didn't have the "pucks" in it so I grabbed these.

http://4into1.com/ne-brand-sealing-rubber-honda-cb500-cb550-cb650-cb750/

I also replaced all the old bolts on my 500 with a new stainless steel set and it recommended to use anti-seize on the threads because of the dissimilar metals.

[onetruepunk87]

That's where I got mine, everything come in little individual bags with a card telling you what part it's for. Well worth the money and they look way better than stripped 40 yr old screws/bolts.

[2strokeTrush]

Thanks guys, good to know all you have had good experience with the bolt company.  Still need to remove the cam. But kinda worried about reinstallation and lining up the cam again.   
   I was also thinking. While I have the top end off, could I take it ( with the valves and guides still in ) to a machine shop and have them clean it? Or would I have to remove the valves and springs.  Something I would rather not to. I would like to clean the valves and areas where allot of build up seems to appear

[grcamna2]

That's a good idea to have the valves seats cleaned and lapped in to restore the compression along w/ putting in fresh rings(as long as the clearances between the cyls.-pistons is within specs.)and lightly honing the cylinders so the new rings will break-in. The engine is all apart now so it's a no-brainer to 'get'er done' now and save time and labor for later when you want to keep riding 

[Stev-o]

I did receive a manual in the mail today, I thought he was kidding but no he actually got me one,  Thanks Stev-O!  I really appreciate it!  I have been reading it, but still unsure of how to remove the forks from here.

What page are you on?  Test next week!

[2strokeTrush]

Well it was mentioned to me that while I have the engine torn down, I should remove the cylinder and re-ring it.  I also wanted to have a machine shop clean the surfaces an valves.  But why would I do all this work to a engine Im only going to put in the other bike I don't need and had planned to sell,  This motor claims to have 21k on it, with a full rebuild you think I should just go ahead and keep this one for the 500 swap?  The motor I had planned to swap is a 77 with about the same miles, but its still not 100% that I will get it.  Guess ill go ahead and build this one no matter what happens, I think its a good idea to get he motor squared away first, then move on from there.

After I pulled everything I notice there is lots of grime, and what appears to be dirt with pebbles in it, or something worse
Anything look out of place?  Some pistons have a brown/reddish tint to them, normal? 











I got nervous about finding all that loose pebbly grime around the base gasket, so I pulled the oil pan,  I figure this is normal sludge for a 40year old bike, but I don't think its as bad as I thought.  I visioned at first a lost gear!









Definitely going to take this to a Machine Shop, would new valves and springs be a good idea?









Bad news is the cam chain tensioner,  Its gotta crack in one, and the other looks pretty worn.  Will the one from the 500 work?  I believe those were fine. 











The cam chain sits in here, I can eel a very small scratch, and its hard to see, but you might be able to make it out.  Should I be worried about this?







Where do you all get Valves and Spring from?  Guess I should add those to the list, Valve Guides as well??

[grcamna2]

Tyler,
She was not too well maintained as far as oil changes...the oil looks real sludgey & carboned up and that will cause lots of wear all through the motor.
How do the cylinder walls look ? I would give the entire cylinder head to the machine shop w/o taking the valves out,they'll do that and then be able to tell you if it needs guides or valves;I don't like the look of that wear up on one of your camshaft bearings in the cylinder head... I would like to take a close look at these cylinder walls after you clean them off before deciding if you should have a look at the 77' engine that you might get(it would be nice if you could have that one too) and see how worn that one would look,or what kind of oil comes out of it's oil pan.

[2strokeTrush]

Tyler,
She was not too well maintained as far as oil changes...the oil looks real sludgey & carboned up and that will cause lots of wear all through the motor.
How do the cylinder walls look ? I would give the entire cylinder head to the machine shop w/o taking the valves out,they'll do that and then be able to tell you if it needs guides or valves;I don't like the look of that wear up on one of your camshaft bearings in the cylinder head... I would like to take a close look at these cylinder walls after you clean them off before deciding if you should have a look at the 77' engine that you might get(it would be nice if you could have that one too) and see how worn that one would look,or what kind of oil comes out of it's oil pan.

Yeah still trying to get the other bike and yank the engine from it!  If the cylinders are bad ( They felt very smooth, but I will re-inspect ) I do have the 500's and they were fine I believe.  So what should I do about the cam journals?  Small scratch, but I assume that could lead to bigger problems.

[2strokeTrush]

The cam journal scratch is probably less of an issue since you are rebuilding the motor than the worn camshaft is. It appears to have some decent wear on the lobes. The scratch in the journal is easily from some debris caught up in the oil that was pinched below the cam. The bottom orifice in that journal is an oil passage. All those need to be thoroughly cleaned and unblocked (machine shop will take care of that with pressure washer). If there's any damage to the journal, they can polish it back out.

From the looks, pistons may be in your future, not just rings. They will need to measure the bores and skirts to confirm. Maybe you can just hone it safely and put in new rings.

It's impotant that the shop mic the cam lobes for runout across the lobes and the rockers too. Hopefully you've kept the rockers organized to their original location. With poor oiling, these items get wear paths in them quickly.

As for springs and valves, wait until they're measured, then decide. If you do buy them, I get mine from Dynoman.net. They're basically the same cost as stock, but better. Guides will be pricey because of labor, so let's cross our fingers those aren't needed.

If you do go through all this work, you will have a very nice engine that will last a very long time under proper maintenance. That's the upside! Every dollar you put into a motor rebuild that's documented, can help you if you choose to resell the bike in a stock configuration. So do what's needed, and keep your receipts whether you keep or resell this bike.

If you can't find a good shop you trust, we can cross paths and I'll carry it to my guys locally. I'm very happy with their quality and their pricing.

Alright no one freakout, its my first rebuild....Noob question time. Do I take the entire engine to the Machine Shop? Or just the top end?  And I had you untill you mentioned " Mic the lobes for run outs" What does this mean exactly?

So the pistons don't look good?  Ugh thats unfortunate.  Do they get pricey? 

SO Iv gotten inout on where to buy everything except rings, Anyone have a favorite spot?

[grcamna2]

Tyler,
I think you should bring the entire top end(cyls.,pistons,cyl.head w/ camshaft & rockers) of the engine to the machine shop & make sure everything is marked for what # cylinder they came from & what position(intake & exh.) each of the rockers is from:use plastic baggies.I would also find out if they specialize in Japanese motorcycle machine work & if they do I'd print out all the necessary pages from your oem Honda service manual that tell them what clearance these parts require,etc.

[2strokeTrush]

Tyler,
I think you should bring the entire top end(cyls.,pistons,cyl.head w/ camshaft & rockers) of the engine to the machine shop & make sure everything is marked for what # cylinder they came from & what position(intake & exh.) each of the rockers is from:use plastic baggies.I would also find out if they specialize in Japanese motorcycle machine work & if they do I'd print out all the necessary pages from your oem Honda service manual that tell them what clearance these parts require,etc.

Thats a great idea.. Ill do that for sure, I didn't take out the rocker arms though, they are still connected to the cover.