Topic: Robin Williams dead

[754]

 Nanooo...Nanooooo....Rip.....Robin..

[scottly]

I don't know how anyone wouldn't like "The World According to Garp"

I've noticed a lack of mention of "Garp" on the media? Best line was the one about the house being disaster-proof after the plane crashed into it..

[70CB750]

I don't know how anyone wouldn't like "The World According to Garp"

I've noticed a lack of mention of "Garp" on the media? Best line was the one about the house being disaster-proof after the plane crashed into it..

Didn't know Garp was made into a movie, took me serious effort to finish that book.

[dhall57]

Spent many years making people laugh and entertaining us with his comedy, tv shows, and movies. But still with all the fame and fortune he was still a very unhappy person and when all said and done couldn't make his own self laugh. Very sad ending I feel for his family.

[Duke McDukiedook]

I don't know how anyone wouldn't like "The World According to Garp"

I've noticed a lack of mention of "Garp" on the media? Best line was the one about the house being disaster-proof after the plane crashed into it..

Didn't know Garp was made into a movie, took me serious effort to finish that book.

Haven't seen the film yet either, the book was a breeze save the break from the narrative he spent on the Bensenhaver detective story.

[70CB750]

Well done! Seriously, the book just did not fit me, read it in Czech translation too.

[BobbyR]

There was some mention of "being selfishness and taking the easy way out". That is a very common reaction.

Depression is one of the largest killers in the US and considering the prevalence of it, the least researched and understood. There are 18 major Cancer Centers and zero Depression Centers. 

There is no CT scan or blood test to diagnosis it. There is very little research on the disease and the treatments have about a 30% success rate for remission.
It becomes a guessing game of trying different drugs. when there is no relief using them, the person feels hopeless and helpless.

At some point it can become so overwhelming that the individual comes to believe there is no way out. It is affecting everyone around them in a way that can also make them believe they are causing so much pain to those they love, those people would be better off without them. They driven to a point they consider it a selfless act.

Robin Williams had access to, and the means to pay for the best care available. I think it is sad, and very telling that he came to a point where he saw no other way out.

On average 18 Veterans and many times more than that in the general population take their own lives each day.

[Duke McDukiedook]

Agreed, the "being selfish" aspect of suicide seriously needs to be put down once and for all.
People that speak in those terms of depression and suicide have no idea of what it is truly about.

The social stigma of depression does not help either.

[vfourfreak]

Agreed, the "being selfish" aspect of suicide seriously needs to be put down once and for all.
People that speak in those terms of depression and suicide have no idea of what it is truly about.

The social stigma of depression does not help either.

Completely agree.

Kev

[martin99]

I am fortunate in that I have never suffered from depression. I have, in my 20 year career as a psychiatric nurse, met plenty of people who have. Most have and can be supported through their darkest moments, and some cannot. For these minority of sufferers, suicide might appear to be the only option open to them. I recently lost one of my patients to suicide - a 43 yr old single mum who, in a pique of desperation and with not an insignificant amount of alcohol inside her, hung herself at home. What a shame her 12yr old daughter was in the other room at the time, and was the one who found her. She is now undoubtedly scarred for life.

Twenty years a psychiatric nurse. Continual professional development. A First Class Degree in Mental Health Nursing. More funeral attendances than I care to remember. With respect, don't tell me that I don't understand what depression and suicide is all about. It is the 'industry' in which I earn my living, and I am bloody good at it. But you can't save 'em all.

I worked with heroin and alcohol dependent patients for ten years. Again, training and education combined with years in the field enabled me to be part of many a patients' recovery.

Something I hear a lot is the argument 'You can't know what it's like if you haven't been there yourself'. This argument is usually put forward when an intervention of care has failed, largely due to the patient's unwillingness or lack of motivation to put some work in themselves. Psychiatric illness is not like physical illness. You can't prescribe a painkiller and send them on their way in the knowledge their hurt will have dissipated in a few days. They need to make an effort too. Part of the challenge of what we do is to get the patient to believe in themselves, to believe that things can actually change for the better if they make an effort.

I should clarify, or perhaps even retract my earlier comment which would suggest I consider all suicides to be acts of selfishness. Of course, not all are. But for many it is the easy, rather than the only way out. And to commit suicide under those circumstances is selfish.

We have discussed the state of the mental health system in the US before. I get the impression that our system here in the UK is better, although far from ideal. As for Robin Williams, I have no idea why he hung himself. Whether it was the easy option or the only option we may never know. Was it an indictment on the mental health system in the US? Possibly, but I doubt it, he could have afforded to buy the help he needed if he was of that inclination.

If there is any benefit to be gained from a public figure ending their life in this way, it is the debate that ensues. I agree there is no place for stigma, and the best way to reduce that is by education and getting people to talk about these things just as we are now.

[Duke McDukiedook]

This comment from another forum I subscribe to describes it better than I ever could.

Suicide has such a stigma around it. If your heart goes bad, it kills you. If your lungs go bad, it kills you. If your brain goes bad, it kills you, but for some reason, it has a whole different feel for the ones left behind.

We had a suicide in the family about a year ago. This family member suddenly developed a brain disorder, and eventually became an extremely paranoid schizophrenic. His life was torture. Seeing people that weren't there, people outside the windows, etc. How would you like to come home and find people in the house, nobody sees them but you, and nobody believes you? These people would attack him too. His mom once caught him fist-fighting an invisible person. One time, in the early stages of the disorder while he still had a job, he just got up and left work. He drove across town, broke into a house, fixed himself a meal, then called the police and described a burglar (describing himself). He got institutionalized at that point. Lost his job, lost his insurance.

He tried all kinds of different meds. The only thing that slowed him down was a shot that was $1000 every 2 weeks. This sucks, because he has no insurance now, and had only begun the fight for disability, so he had to apply for charity. This was terrible for a man who took pride in earning his way. He literally cried as he filled out the applications. He had severe reactions to the shots too. One time his tongue swelled up so big he couldn't shut his mouth, and he couldn't breathe.

Suddenly the reactions stopped. Everyone thought his body finally got used to it. One cloudy cold morning, he got up, said he was going shopping. He drove to house where he was raised (his father still lived there but wasn't home). He got a 12 gauge out of the closet and did the deed.

Now, we were all devastated of course. But after you get over the agony of the loss, and start to look at what happened objectively, you start to understand. We talked to his doctor, and turns out, he had cancelled his appointments. He had only been pretending to go. Because of HIPA laws, nobody could tell us that. That's why the reactions stopped. It was simple, he decided the torture would end. I think he was glad to do it. I had to go pick his car up at the scene of the suicide. When I got in and turned the key, the radio was playing very loud on a bubble-gum pop station. I think he was almost giddy to have it over with. And you know what? I get it. I get suicide. Until you have seen it unfold before you, I don't think you really can "get it". It's not selfish, it's not cowardly, it's just a defective brain shutting you down the same way any other defective organ would.

I feel bad for Robin Williams. Just like when the body gets tired of fighting cancer cells and the cancer takes over, I think something in the brain just gets tired of fighting too. I get it. Sleep well friends, until we meet again.

Only problem there is that we have not quite perfected the brain transplant yet.

[demon78]

As a closet depressive most of my life I thought it was a Celtic (Scottish) disease more of that section of the population seamed to be up or down and it was mostly a melancholia about the world and your place in it ( it maybe why Irish tend toward poetry) it maybe ingrained from grubby little towns that our ancestors grew up in, I could go on, my speculations on the blues are that, only speculation, I know that the common cure is take a couple of these and  that'll get you by, but it doesn't, it's you that drags you out/up and some times it takes a lot more dragging than usual and I can see where it gets to be overwhelming, and some times the thought of smoking a scatter gun is a way out, or a razor blade across the carotid but then I didn't/don't want my family or wife to have to clean up the #$%* I left behind, after I fell and saw what half my bodies blood on the floor looked like in real time and realized that she had to come home from the hospital and mop it up, I thought more and more about not doing that and now with a 3 year old grandson to provide an icon for, it's put my head down and keep on trucking. I feel for Robin Williams.
Bill the demon.

[martin99]

Very poignant Dukie, good of you to post that.

It may seem like an informed and rational choice in this case, but with his history how could anyone ever be sure that he really meant to do it? Did he leave a note explaining his actions? Or was he gripped by psychosis, afraid, paranoid, confused and un-medicated? It's good that the family have come to terms with it and view it as a welcome release.

I would still submit that everyone is an individual and no two cases are the same. Perhaps one can have more empathy for someone with a co-morbid condition such as schizophrenia, as the torture can be unbearable but the fact is that at the point of death no-one can ever know if it was a capacitous  decision or an unforunate consequence of a psychotic episode. From my own experience of working with schizophrenia I have learned not to be judgemental of any harm they do to themselves, it's a given that such risks are managed as well as possible.

Where it becomes more contentious is when the issue is debt, for which they are not prepared to seek advice, or addiction where they refuse to be receptive to suggestion that it can be overcome, or loneliness when they have shunned the help of both support services and family to help them out of social isolation. Where there are people that care for them and want them to get better, where there are dependants who would clearly struggle on their own, where there are children in the house and no attempt has been made to protect them from exposure to a corpse hanging from the rafters. In the UK if a suicide is proven (usually by the leaving of a suicide note expressing clear intent to die) insurance companies will not pay out. If you have made up your mind to die, and have any feelings for those you leave behind, why wouldn't you ensure their financial security?

We don't just close the file when someone dies. We deal with the fall-out, the family, try and signpost them toward the help and support they need. A lot of the time they don't want help from us, they think it's our fault their loved one couldn't be saved. They're angry. It's part of the grieving process. They have to blame someone.

For some reason, depression does seem to plague the intellectual and creative more than most. Tony Hancock, Peter Sellers, Spike Milligan, Stephen Fry to name a few (I appreciate some readers may not recognise all these names). It's a fascinating subject that should get aired more often.

[BobbyR]

With all due respect Skool, it seems you tend to lump depression into one bucket. This is understandable since there is not much research into the subject. There are drug companies trying to find the pill of happiness and get wealthier, but no deep inquiry into the causes.  No special Hospitals, just general Psych Centers that contain mixed nuts.

Some people get depressed from a life incident such as job loss or some other significant event or sudden but short term health event. That can probably be talked out and will clear. Then there are those that have a organic type of depression that causes them to never experience joy. Some cope with it and some don't.

My Doctor was Christopher Reeve's Father in Law from the time I was 14 to 46, so we has a good relationship. Robin Williams was Christoper's closest friend. The Doctor had dinner with Robin before and after the accident. He told me that when you had dinner with Williams, you attended a performance.  It was non stop Robin Williams, he said after a few times it was disturbing. It was like Williams went non stop patter to try to set up a barrier around himself.

As I said before we have Foundations for all other fatal and non fatal disorders. There is no Depression Foundation, no ribbons, no celebrity spots.   

[Damfino]

Patch Adams.

[Duke McDukiedook]

You just had to bring up that abomination of a movie, didn't you?

[BobbyR]

It appears that he was diagnosed with Parkinsons Disease. I imagine it was one Demon too many.

[demon78]

Having watched my mother pack in from Parkinson's I don't blame him, if all you've is your mind it would be terrifying.
Bill the demon.