Topic: fuel tank liner removal

[Ibdsharpe]

Anyone familiar with a black colored liner and what to use for removal from stock tank without damaging paint?

[Duanob]

Yep, what cal sez. Acetone works wonders. Remove all rubber bits and plug all holes. Set the tank in a tub of some kind in case of leaks. I mortar tub from home depot works great and costs less than $10.

[Seeparkfly]

I would buy a couple of in-line fuel filters just in case some particles come loose while riding. Will save you from cleaning the carbs. I learned the hard way.

[Terry in Australia]

MEK is way faster than Acetone, but way more harmful if it splashes on anything. I'd use it, but very carefully. Cheers, Terry.

[Ibdsharpe]

Hi all,  thanks so much to everyone for your thoughts and will try acetone FIRST and the MEK if that doesn't work....... Paints good and don't want to mess it up. But does anyone know what kind of liner comes in BLACK so I won't make same mistake as PO? What looked like granules embedded in liner was actually tiny rust volcano like pushing up through liner but no evidence in petcock strainer.  However there was a white substance in both the petcock bowl and "reserve intake" but nowhere else....puzzling.
Dave

[TimK]

Liner?
Is that what this stuff is (was)?

[Ibdsharpe]

What tank are we talking about? Post up a couple pics too please.

Certain manufacturers used different factory "liners" at different times. For instance, BMW used a baked liner from early 60s thru mid 80s. Tougher than nails too. A true black liner, I'm not familiar with. Perhaps it's become tinted over the years?

It's a stock CB750K5 tank that was rebuilt/repainted by Steve Preston.
ps: sorry bout pic absence but I'm an analog guy in a digital world and took pics but couldn't attachon my tablet:-)

[Ibdsharpe]

Liner?
Is that what this stuff is (was)?

Probably so, but mine is still attached to the tank.....................right now

[Muckinfuss]

Just a cautionary FYI...not such a thing as a safe hydrocarbon solvent, but some are safer than others.  If you decide to try MEK, consider: its inherent volatility is much higher than acetone...which makes it a potential explosive.  Vapors will irritate nose and throat, cause eye irritation, and cause dermatitis of the skin in vapor concentrations of 100 to 300 ppm.  Above that narcosis has been reported.  Inhaling vapors... instantly into the blood stream and straight to the liver...which isn't really designed to handle that sort of enemy.  If you can smell it, you are inhaling it.  MEK is also absorbed almost instantaneously through skin contact and vapors even through your eyes are absorbed instantaneously.   If you intend to use one or two gallons...wear a respirator, ski goggles or diving mask if not a full face NIOSH respirator, and plenty of skin protection + ventilation.  You don't want to be waiting in line twenty years from now for a liver transplant.

[Ibdsharpe]

Just a cautionary FYI...not such a thing as a safe hydrocarbon solvent, but some are safer than others.  If you decide to try MEK, consider: its inherent volatility is much higher than acetone...which makes it a potential explosive.  Vapors will irritate nose and throat, cause eye irritation, and cause dermatitis of the skin in vapor concentrations of 100 to 300 ppm.  Above that narcosis has been reported.  Inhaling vapors... instantly into the blood stream and straight to the liver...which isn't really designed to handle that sort of enemy.  If you can smell it, you are inhaling it.  MEK is also absorbed almost instantaneously through skin contact and vapors even through your eyes are absorbed instantaneously.   If you intend to use one or two gallons...wear a respirator, ski goggles or diving mask if not a full face NIOSH respirator, and plenty of skin protection + ventilation.  You don't want to be waiting in line twenty years from now for a liver transplant.

WHOA! Thanks for the warning Muckingfuss. I'll stick with the acetone or toilet bowl cleaner as I don't want to stand in any line for any body parts at my age.............they'd just kick me aside for some youngster in their 60's

[eigenvector]

You can still use MEK, just don't put it in a paper bag and huff it.

For the small amount of time you'll be standing around it, I wouldn't get too alarmed.  It's going to spend its time in the tank sealed, not open to the air.

Acetone's just cheaper by the gallon.

[Ibdsharpe]

Thanks again and hopefully the acetone will do the job and won't need the MEK:-)
Once the liner is gone it's on to the RUST removal. Have several gallons of Milkstone Remover which was recommended by VJMC article and diluted is touted as the best......we'll see. Don't plan to reline with anything if it cleans up well enough. .............that is, unless I have to.

[Terry in Australia]

Muckinfuss' post is a good cautionary warning for using MEK, it is dangerous stuff, but as Eigenvector rightly points out, unless you're going to use it in large concentrations, for prolonged periods of time, it's not huge problem.

You certainly don't need to dress up in an NBC suit to use it, the old "Kreem" kits still come with a bottle of MEK to wash out any moisture from the metal etching process, and I've done several tanks over the last 30 years with it, with no ill effects.

I  know that "common sense is not common" and all those other popular idioms, but I think we're all adults here, so are capable of a modicum of common sense when handling volatile solvents. I certainly wouldn't be any less careful when using Acetone.............

[Ibdsharpe]

I understand and got the message. Thanks Terry and btw someone had posted to use a plumbers plug for fill hole and that's a no no with acetone:-)........FOR SURE!

[Ibdsharpe]

What tank are we talking about? Post up a couple pics too please.

Certain manufacturers used different factory "liners" at different times. For instance, BMW used a baked liner from early 60s thru mid 80s. Tougher than nails too. A true black liner, I'm not familiar with. Perhaps it's become tinted over the years?

Hi Calj,
Maybe the pic will help identify.........assuming it's attached:-)

[Ibdsharpe]

Will do. Got a couple sheets of the stuff out after overnight but they were from the fill neck area but the acetone doesn't seem to be affecting the submerged portion. The acetone ate my plumbers plug and don't know what else to use so I can turn tank upside down.  Any ideas?

[Muckinfuss]

Unless you are trying to save the paint job...you need to think outside the box.  If you're trying to save the paint, you have a long road ahead of you because what I suggest won't save it.

Since you don't know exactly what you are trying to remove, it is just a system of steps based on sophisticated wild ass guessing.  If it's sheeting, then it is probably an elastomer as opposed to an epoxy or polymer film.  Cured epoxy and polymer films don't usually sheet, they come apart in small chips or flints and aren't' flexible after cure..

First, rinse the tank with plenty of water to remove all presence of acetone fumes..since it's water soluble.  If you can smell it, you haven't removed it. 

Find an oven ..... set temp at 350F.  Bake for five hours.  You need to bake out the volatile part of the membrane.  This should render it fairly 'unglued'.  The volatile components are what give it 'tooth' and elasticity at the molecular level.  A butyl based skin may even become a black powder.  (Butyl is inherently black)  If not, then try a 'slow' reducer (not thinner) from an auto body supply.  this will contain a number of blended hydrocarbons....including everyone's favorite MEK.....about $40 per gallon.  If that doesn't work....put it back in the oven after neutralizing with water again...and put the oven on self clean.  You'll pull out a tank with dust in it and a very easy to remove paint job.

For those of you without a degree in chemical engineering....hydrocarbon based solvents don't screw you up overnight, unless you are intentionally using them for euphoric effect ....they start a deterioration that continues while you feel fine, for years.....limited exposure can do damage...just not right away.  Damage is accumulative and based on all exposures, not just per compound.  One exposure to MEK and 150 to acetone is 151 exposures.  Like I said before, if you can smell any hydrocarbon based solvent (gasoline included!), you're absorbing it.....just take reasonable precautions.....breathing is not optional, but necessary for continued life.

[Ibdsharpe]

Thanks again Muckinfuss for the info and warnings. Unfortunately, I'm trying to save the paint job if at all possible. Trying to match the other 11 metalflake painted parts would be tough and above my pay grade:-) If you've any ideas re fill opening plug and other methods to try I'd really appreciate hearing as the acetone ate my plumbers plug up.
Thanks again,
Dave

[Muckinfuss]

McGiver a plug out of a plastic juice or water bottle bottom that fits over the tank opening and RTV to the tank for a seal.  Fully cure the RTV.  Test the bottle in your solvent of choice first since there are different plastics used.  Obviously, if the material breaks down in that test, don't use it.  Bottles that are hdpe or ldpe labeled will work for this.  The recycling signature will tell you.

Plan B (preferred by me), get a cheap, white plastic cutting board made of hdpe (high density polyethylene) from K mart, Target or Wallmart.  If it's not white, it's probably not hdpe.  Use a band or jig saw and cut a cap that is larger than the opening you're trying to cover.  Again, use the RTV and seal the tank...let it cure fully.  HDPE is often described as 'oily' to the touch.  A rough surface is needed so the RTV has a good grip on it. 

You may have to fill the thing with small sharp rocks after your solvent soaking, wrap in a couple of blankets with duck tape and put it into a clothes dryer to tumble for an hour or two on air, no heat, to cut the liner loose.  Good luck.  I think you're in for some work.

[chewbacca5000]

It looks like Red Kote.  Good stuff I would leave it there unless it is failing.  If you happen across an old BBQ grill thow it and there and it will burn out of the inside.  Do not do this with your kitchen oven for obvious reasons.

The acetone will work eventually.  MEK would be quicker.  Red Kote is MEK soluble.  You can't buy it where I live just the substitute.

[Ibdsharpe]

Thanks for all the good info guys. Very much appreciated.

[Terry in Australia]

Are there any non-solvent based paint strippers that would work on this stuff Mucky? Caustic? Non Caustic? Aircraft Stripper? Cheers, Terry.

[Ibdsharpe]

I've since found out from Steve Preston (builder) that the stuff is WURTH RUST GARD BLACK.
Even though I asked he didn't advise what would remove it and the acetone hasn't done much of anything. 

[Muckinfuss]

that's good stuff.  it's used a lot in antique auto restoration...especially in concourse type restorations.  although similar to POR-15, it seems to have a separate component that converts rust to a type of 'parkerizing' as well as a bullet proof topcoat.

[Ibdsharpe]

Well this application didn't make it 3yrs and we have no ethanol in the area. Although it does hold up well against acetone:-) Im trying Aircraft Paint Remover now  but can't yet tell if its doing anything. The stuff is inside tank now but need to turn it over but my rtv hasn't cured. Hope it wont hurt for it to stay in there overnight.