Topic: Whats a good battery to use for a cb550? suggested CCA?

[dergs713]

Hey guys looking at buying a new batt for one of my cb550 projects.  I want to go with a small size to fit into a all in one electrical box I have made. 

What is the suggested cells, and cold cranking amps I need, for the bike to run properly?

Thanks all
Matt

[TwoTired]

You need about 200 CCA if you are planning electric start use.
If you have an electronic regulator,  you might like the Shorai LiFePO4 batteries.  But, you should add a voltmeter to the bike, as if the voltage goes too low due to depletion, the battery can be damaged.  Too high volts is bad for it, too.  It's probably as small dimension-wise as you should get and still use Estart.
But, you should check out your charging system components beforehand.

Cheers,

[dergs713]

Well I am using a kick to start it, might throw a electric start on it in the future, but thats a slim chance.  I need the batt a little on the smaller side to fit into this vintage Santee box I modified for all my electrical components.  That is why im in this situation.  The Santee box i found out is for a harley batt...

New to electrical world, was wondering what I can get away with, and what amount of cells and cca's would help for my application.  I figure 200 cca is strictly due to the use on the electric start..?
Matt

[TwoTired]

So, what dimensions are your limits?

You will still need to draw some power out of the battery during idle, depending on what your electrical load is.  Is it more than 50W?
How long do you plan to sit at idle RPM and what is your total electrical load for the bike?

Anyway, the Shorai battery I got (LFX14A2-BS12) was  2.28" x 4.45"x 3.50".  But, I have yet to install it on one of my bikes.

Cheers,

[Bankerdanny]

CCA's= cold cranking amps, which are irrelevant if you don't plan to use the electric start (which you wouldn't have to 'throw on' unless you have removed it for some reason), the 'cranking' part.

As long as you plan to kick start it, pretty much any 12 volt powersports battery will work. The battery is mostly used to provide spark when you start the bike, and deep reserves aren't really important. Once the bike is running the generator is what powers the engine and lights, and the battery just provides supplemental power at idle and very low speeds.

[Duke McDukiedook]

If your bike is cold blooded like mine you might want to think twice before ditching the electric starter.
Until my bike gets warmed up it needs the electric start to get going on a cold start- you can get very tired kicking before you know it.
Warm all it needs is one kick.

[TwoTired]

As long as you plan to kick start it, pretty much any 12 volt powersports battery will work. The battery is mostly used to provide spark when you start the bike, and deep reserves aren't really important. Once the bike is running the generator is what powers the engine and lights, and the battery just provides supplemental power at idle and very low speeds.

A small battery will work very short term on the 550.  As the alternator only makes about 50w at idle, any bikes need beyond that 50w come from the reserves in the depleting battery.  When those are gone, the engine stops due to low spark voltage.

[Bankerdanny]

True. But careful application of LED's should reduce the draw and allow fitment of a pretty small battery. I would stick with points too, as electronic ignition is sensitive to battery condition.

[TwoTired]

Alternator Field coil - 5Ω @ 12V  consumes 28.8 Watts
Ignition coil - 5Ω also consumes 28.8 watts (Electronic ignition like the Dyna-s nearly doubles this consumption.)

You want a headlight with that?    40 W  (or more)
  Total bike drain with these minimal loads is 97 Watts.  Subtract the 50W power contribution from the alternator at idle, and a 47 Watt drain from the battery is needed to keep the bike in operation.

Also, many battery technologies last longest if they are not deep cycled.  Constant drain and recharge wear them out faster than if simply maintained at peak storage level.  Drain the LiFePO4 batteries below their minimum threshold and they lose capacity also.

Just saying...

[dergs713]

Ok I will look into where I am going with the draw, and work from there.  I appreciate all of your help guys.  Will keep you all posted.
Matt

[timmangan]

Twotired - How did the shorai end up running in your bike?

Im about to pull the trigger on one myself but would like to hear your experience before i do.

Cheers

[TwoTired]

I didn't end up using it in my bikes, as they all have the stock electromechanical regulator, and don't have voltmeter instrumentation.  I believe an adjustable electronic regulator and Voltmeter are essential to extract maximum life from the expensive Shorai.  I now use the Shorai in my RC equipment box to charge flight batteries, etc.  When needed, I recharge the LiFePO4 Shorai from a charger designed to work with this technology.   It still works fine in this role.

I have used it to jump start the bikes on occasion.  Works good for that, too.

[timmangan]

hmmmm, so your saying theres a chance??

So you would be confident running it on a cb550

[TwoTired]

So you would be confident running it on a cb550

Around the block?  Sure.  It won't hurt the bike.  Your wallet? ...maybe.

An LiFePO4 battery will be damaged if you let its voltage fall below 10V or allow the voltage to rise above 14.8V.  The stock electromechanical regulator it rather sloppy in it's battery maintenance chores and relies on the "forgiveness" of the lead acid battery.  If the Vreg is not tweaked/tuned correctly it can allow the battery voltage to go above battery manufacturer's guidelines.  (so you can kiss warranty goodbye.) As far as I know, there is no automotive voltage regulator commercially available that provides specific protection for an LiFePO4 battery.

Recall that the Cb550 alternator doesn't charge at idle, which drains the battery.  Idle or run low RPM for a long enough duration, the battery can/will deplete.  You can't tell during operation that this is occurring if you don't have a voltmeter for the operator to constantly monitor.   Needless to say, that the first time you leave the lights or ignition on when parked, the battery will be damaged or at least lose its full capacity.

So yes, it can "work" on the Cb550, but the extra operator workload and equipment required to ensure the LiFePO4 survival was unattractive to me.

But, if you are willing to throw the dice on your wallet, go for it.  The battery or bike won't blow up because of the battery.  But, do get a balance charger to have the internal cells equalized periodically, if you wish to avoid early replacement.

I just didn't want to tweak my functionally working, stock, original, regulators to compensate for an LiFePO4 battery needs, and didn't particularly want to add a voltmeter, either. (Though I did acquire one.)

I just recently bought AGM batteries for my bikes.  Still have to install them.  But, that technology dovetails with the same needs as standard lead acid. 

Cheers,

[timmangan]

Geez twotired, i was really hoping for a "Yeah, that would work fine, of course i would"... its never that easy is it.

In terms of the idle, i live in west-michigan where the most traffic you can find is about 3 cars at a red light so idling in traffic isnt a worry for me.

generally i keep the revs up pretty high, im no ricky bobby, but generally dont ride slow or soft.

ill check in to the agm batteries, if the voltage drop at idle is the main concern with the shorai, i would be happy to roll the dice on it, after all, its just money right? 

[TwoTired]

Geez twotired, i was really hoping for a "Yeah, that would work fine,...

Oh, I couldn't do that.  Then you wouldn't learn anything. 

[timmangan]

Calj, which shoaria do you run?

Im looking at the LFX12A1-BS12.

Also, what bike is it running in?

No idle drain issues, or anything like that?

[trueblue]

I have a MotoBatt AGM battery in my 650, it is over 3 years old and still going strong, never been on an external charger.  It can sit for 6 months and still crank my bike over like I used it yesterday.