Author Topic: Metal Pieces In Oil (Read 3997 times)

DaveBarbier · « **on:** August 22, 2014, 05:05:18 am »

So I did an oil change and in the plastic drain pan I used I saw these metal pieces. It's like they're strips of metal (ferrous) and they're rolled and bent up. I only found these two but there could have been more.

Bike hasn't been run in about 2 months but before that...well it wasn't running great then either but it seemed like it was carb issues. The engine seemed strong and well running.

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1978 Honda CB550K

Vinhead1957 · « **Reply #1 on:** August 22, 2014, 05:26:35 am »

I'm thinking cam chain tensioner. You can inspect from below

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #2 on:** August 22, 2014, 05:49:55 am »

You mean drop the oil pan? I was hoping you'd say not to worry about it, haha.

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1978 Honda CB550K

trueblue · « **Reply #3 on:** August 22, 2014, 05:57:14 am »

It's a little hard to tell on my phone but they look a little like retainers from a ball bearing. I would definitely go on the hunt for more.

MCRider · « **Reply #4 on:** August 22, 2014, 06:03:18 am »

Quote from: DaveBarbier on August 22, 2014, 05:49:55 am

You mean drop the oil pan? I was hoping you'd say not to worry about it, haha.

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1978 Honda CB550K

Yeah, if those are steel bits, it doesn't look good to me. Even if you drop the oil pan and find the source, or more of the same, you've still got to fix it. Cam chain tensioner or a bearing.

Could they have been in the drainpan from some other source, like your lawnmower or such? OR was the pan clean when you started.

ekpent · « **Reply #5 on:** August 22, 2014, 06:09:42 am »

Do you know if the previous owner had done any major repairs/top end rebuilds, engine torn down etc before you got it. Stuff can fall in or junk from an earlier fix. Not fun finding stuff like that though.

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #6 on:** August 22, 2014, 06:25:55 am »

I'm almost certain the drain pan was clean to begin with.

I don't think the previous owner did any rebuilds to this or opened it up at all. He didn't say he did, at least.

So what do you think my next step is? Drain the oil and drop the pan and have a look see? If I then don't find anything does the motor have to be disassembled until I find a culprit, assuming that these pieces are actually from my motor?

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1978 Honda CB550K

trueblue · « **Reply #7 on:** August 22, 2014, 06:29:50 am »

I would drop the pan and check it. If you find more debris, go looking. Otherwise ride it and do a short oil change, 500ish miles. Then drop the pan again and if it is still clean with no debris put it out of your mind and ride. That's what I would do anyway.

calj737 · « **Reply #8 on:** August 22, 2014, 06:31:17 am »

I'd be dropping the oil pan for certain. If those metal bits came out of your oil, there's bound to be more in the pan. If the culprit was not immediately visible from below, I would then turn my attention to the rocker cover looking at the cam chain, cam, and upper end.

Splitting cases would be my last resort, or final destination depending on what I discovered with the top and bottom covers off.

MCRider · « **Reply #9 on:** August 22, 2014, 06:31:42 am »

I missed that this was a 550. No first hand knowledge. Still, doesn't look good to me.

Good luck.

Calumjs · « **Reply #10 on:** August 22, 2014, 06:32:41 am »

Quote from: trueblue on August 22, 2014, 06:29:50 am

I would drop the pan and check it. If you find more debris, go looking. Otherwise ride it and do a short oil change, 500ish miles. Then drop the pan again and if it is still clean with no debris put it out of your mind and ride. That's what I would do anyway.

What he said

eigenvector · « **Reply #11 on:** August 22, 2014, 06:43:12 am »

Those are too big to ignore, but if I had to guess I'd say the tensioner. Others have said the same and how to verify.

The tensioner design is really not very good on this bike.

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #12 on:** August 22, 2014, 06:51:23 am »

Ok, thanks guys. Ugh, bikes...can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em.

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1978 Honda CB550K

Don R · « **Reply #13 on:** August 22, 2014, 06:59:43 am »

Is it magnetic? If not it could be bearing material, I spun a rod bearing in a car engine that looked like that. Pieces went all the way into the valve covers.

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #14 on:** August 22, 2014, 07:14:38 am »

Quote from: Don R on August 22, 2014, 06:59:43 am

Is it magnetic? If not it could be bearing material, I spun a rod bearing in a car engine that looked like that. Pieces went all the way into the valve covers.

Yes, it is magnetic. Are you then saying that if it IS magnetic then it ISN'T a bearing?

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1978 Honda CB550K

lrutt · « **Reply #15 on:** August 22, 2014, 07:27:46 am »

If it's ferrous, (magnetic), then it's some portion of a bearing or gear or shaft or possibly the cam chain tensioner or some fastener. Those are the only items in our motors that are ferrous.

The shape of those look like remnants of a bearing cage almost. No matter what, it's not something your going to fix without a tear down I'm afraid.

MCRider · « **Reply #16 on:** August 22, 2014, 07:42:46 am »

tWO DIFFERENT KINDS OF BEARINGS. a BALL BEARING IN A CAGE, LIKE A TRANSMISSION BEARING, WOULD BE FERROUS (MAGNETIC).

Oops cap lock.

Material from the crankshaft main bearings or rod bearings would not be magnetic. Both require tear down.

CamChain tens too, magnetic, tear down. Nothing can shred that much metal without being terminal.

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #17 on:** August 22, 2014, 07:50:44 am »

So pretty much I'm looking at pulling the motor and taking it apart. Can the cam chain tensioner be replaced from underneath? I'm at work right now and don't have my Clymer manual handy.

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1978 Honda CB550K

calj737 · « **Reply #18 on:** August 22, 2014, 07:53:53 am »

Pulling it right now is not confirmed. And with a 550, you can pull the head while in the frame, and then replace the tensioner, if that's the problem.

If it were me, I'd be keen to pull the motor after identifying the culprit to ensure all metal bits are fully out of the motor and don't cause problems later. But, you have a ways to go before you confirm the problem.

Be prepared for the bad news, but don't make a decision until you ascertain the actual cause.

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #19 on:** August 22, 2014, 08:01:00 am »

Thanks guys. I'll keep you posted. I'm bummed out. Just getting my new carbs today in the mail and now I have this on my plate. Oh well, with each repair I gain knowledge and my bike becomes more reliable.

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1978 Honda CB550K

MiGhost · « **Reply #20 on:** August 22, 2014, 03:24:54 pm »

Start by draining the fresh oil into a clean drain pan. If any more bits show up. You will know that they are out of the motor, and pan will need to come off for inspection.

When you get the top cover off. Check the sides of the cam chain tunnel for signs of the chain rubbing. Any signs of grooves in the walls of the tunnel will indicate a loose cam chain, and likely tensioner/guide problems.

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #21 on:** August 30, 2014, 09:26:42 am »

Ok, so I finally have been able to drain the oil again. First, I pushed the kick starter a few times to get things moving then drained the oil in a clean pan. I don't see any more metal bits. Not even small ones. I even took a magnetic screw driver and swished it around in the oil and there was nothing on the end. Just as a reminder the little pieces I found the first time were magnetic.

What do you guys think? Should I still drop the pan and open the top? If I drop the pan I'd need a new gasket, right?

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1978 Honda CB550K

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #22 on:** August 30, 2014, 02:25:33 pm »

Alright so I took the pan off anyway just to be sure. And sure enough there are two more little pieces in there that look like the first two. BUT! There is something else. Something, I'm guessing, that is very important. See pictures. I bet someone here can identify this broken piece. I looked up in the motor and I really have no idea what the heck I'm looking at. More pictures to come.

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1978 Honda CB550K

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #23 on:** August 30, 2014, 03:09:00 pm »

It's really hard to get a picture of this but I found what's broken. It's the gear in the middle rear. If you look in the center of the photo you can see a chunk taken out of a gear or something.

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1978 Honda CB550K

calj737 · « **Reply #24 on:** August 30, 2014, 03:14:00 pm »

Yup, trans bits from the gears. No option now but to pull it and separate the cases. Bill Benton might have a new trans he can sell you at a reasonable price.

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Author Topic: Metal Pieces In Oil (Read 3997 times)