Author Topic: Haunted starter kept going even after key removed  (Read 688 times)

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Offline kingrabbit

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Haunted starter kept going even after key removed
« on: August 30, 2014, 05:00:55 pm »
Background
74 CB 550K daily runner I have owned for 5+ years. Has been generally reliable.
Replaced oil pump switch with used one approx. 6 weeks ago as oil light came on. It was fine once I'd done that except for a minor oil drip around the switch. The oil level at present is on the low end of OK.

The "Manifestation"
Hit starter button. No start. Snapping sound heard from down below. Release starter button but starter keeps turning. Kill switch has no effect. Turn off and remove key. Starter continues to turn until battery is drained. Battery is on the charger.

My Activity Immediately Prior to This (Look here for cause...) 
I have a club ride tomorrow so I usually check the bike over in advance. I cleaned the plugs. The #2 plug wire is frayed at the coil and I have electric tape on there. Tonight I added a dab of dielectric grease at the frayed section before re-taping it. I had never done this before...
Started bike up.
#3 cylinder wasn't firing.  Exhaust 3 was stone cold while the other 3 heated up. This has never happened before. There was no spark. I swapped the plugs. No difference. Pulled plug cap and it measured 5k Ohms which is normal.
I cut a little of the #3 plug wire off and before screwing the cap back on I again added a little dielectric grease to the end of the wire. Never done that before either...
Started bike up. Same result: #3 stone cold.
Checked the ignition point gaps and the valves. I adjusted the points gaps since it hadn't been done in awhile and looked to be off a little.
I tried starting it again. Starter engaged and bike turned over as per normal. Then I heard a mechanical snapping sound.
I let go the starter button. Starter kept going. Hit the kill switch. No difference.  I turned off the key and it still kept going. Before I could get at the fuse box it had run the battery down completely.

Battery is on the charger. Tomorrow's ride looks doubtful.
What is going on here?

'74 CB 550K
'75 CB 750F
'73 XLH 1000

Donny

Offline Bodi

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Re: Haunted starter kept going even after key removed
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2014, 05:17:11 pm »
The starter takes A LOT of power, the harness wiring or switches can not handle that much. There's a high power relay usually called the "solenoid switch" that actually switches the starter motor power: pushing the starter button powers the coil of this relay.
The relay contacts get crudded up, corroded, and burnt with use. They can eventually stick closed, keeping the starter running. The kill switch doesn't affect the starter, but switching the key off just disconnects power to the stuff that can power the coil - your power contacts are stuck together and don't care about the coil. Just a good whack to the relay will probably solve it in a pinch but it will do it again soon if not serviced or replaced.
The solenoid switch relay can usually be disassembled, cleaned, lubed, reassembled and work for many more years. Only if it's severely burnt will it need to be replaced. A good non-OEM (ie cheaper) one can be purchased at any lawn tractor or quad dealer, you just have to mount it.

Offline kingrabbit

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Re: Haunted starter kept going even after key removed
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2014, 05:22:32 pm »
where is this doodad located? I will give it a whack right now!
'74 CB 550K
'75 CB 750F
'73 XLH 1000

Donny

Offline kingrabbit

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Re: Haunted starter kept going even after key removed
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2014, 06:01:51 pm »
Update and clue?
I am thinking there is a mechanical element to my problem.
I charged the battery. Turned it on. When I hit the starter it turns over as per normal. Then the loud snapping sound.
I tried kicking it over and I note that at the very bottom of the range of the kickstart I can feel the snap as well as hear it.
It definitely sounds like something in the gearbox?
'74 CB 550K
'75 CB 750F
'73 XLH 1000

Donny

Offline cadman

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Re: Haunted starter kept going even after key removed
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2014, 09:39:10 am »
You may have some gearbox problem but the only thing that causes the starter to run is the starter solenoid -

Either your starter button is sticking or the solenoid is sticking. Follow your positive battery cable - it goes directly to the starter solenoid. The starter solenoid should have three wires - the heavy one from the battery and a heavy one to the starter and a third small one that comes from the starter button.

It is not unusual for the solenoid to randomly stick shut if it is old -

Here is a link for a new one - http://www.amazon.com/Starter-Solenoid-Relay-Honda-Nighthawk/dp/B008I5LYRM